yes

Yes

It's obviously, yes. The question should be how and why does this happen. Daylilies have even more look alikes than Hosta.

Let's take a unique Hosta like Orange Marmalade. Bob Solberg creates a Hosta with a great new color. He patents it and markets it and it does well. Then he develops Forbidden Fruit which looks a lot like OM, but it's tetraploid. That means thicker leaves and better garden performance. So he introduces FF. Can't blame him for that, it's an improvement. But OM doesn't disappear from the market. There are tons of TCs out there and more being grown all the time. So we end up with two look alike Hostas. We see this all the time. People introduce Hostas that are incremental improvements (or so they think) over ones that are already being successfully marketed.

I don't know the sequence of Dream Weaver, Dream Queen and Thunderbolt, but I'm sure that two of the discoverers of these sports thought they were superior to the others. Thus we end up with three look alikes, all of which are available in the marketplace.

Sports are a big part of the problem. Hostas are so unstable that they sport often and people want to introduce every one of them, not necessarily for money, but for notoriety.

I don't know if there is an easy solution to this. It seems to be a byproduct of the popularity of the Genus. Maybe an introducer should submit a statement of uniqueness as part of the registration process and that statement should be reviewed by a panel of experts before a Hosta can be registered by the AHS.

Steve

YES!
i.e., I have 39 different green-with-yellow-edge ones, most of them are not so different.
It seems to be good for the ego to register another lookalike.

Yes.

One reason is because most folks believe newer is better, so a hosta introduced in 2008 is, ipso facto, better than one from 1990. And that ties into the second reason: greed. Nurseries introduce new (look-alike) hosta to be able to sell a new introduction.

YES!

I'm with Steve about registration:

"Maybe an introducer should submit a statement of uniqueness as part of the registration process and that statement should be reviewed by a panel of experts before a Hosta can be registered by the AHS."

No.

Everyone can look at new introductions and decide for themselves if they like it and whether it is different enough from what they have. They can then open up their wallets or walk away.

The more growers experimenting and developing, the more variations are available, albeit many that are almost indistinguishable from one another.

Jon

That's an interesting point of view, Jon. One I hadn't considered. In the University world the free flow of ideas spurs innovation. I think you are saying that the more crosses being done, the more likely we are to see a breakthrough plant. That certainly should be true. Do you think a statement of uniqueness and a review would prevent experimentation and development? I'm not sure about that. The only thing that I would worry about was that it would prevent someone from bringing forth something that truly is unique. That's a risk. But it's also a risk that such a plant would be overlooked in the rush to get the newest yellow margined sport into Proven Winners.

Steve

Yes. I'm all for new and different, and willing to live with tetraploid twins. But some of the differences are so subtle the hostas are indistinguishable. It makes it impossible to put a tag on noids.

I can see why it happens. I have a daylily that wasn't registered because it looks too much like others already on the market. But - it blooms like crazy, held up to the summer heat and drought while others went dormant, and is as fragrant as daylilies get. Of course I think it should have been registered, it has some excellent qualities. I'm sure that's what people registering a look-alike hosta think, too.

RE "newer is better": I was looking around what has survived this year, and noticed most of the oldies but goodies are in better shape than the new hybrids. I'm starting to think maybe there's something in "tried and true". Still lusting after Golden Meadows, though. (BG)

Yes.

However, I am not as learned as most of you and most of mine aren't even labeled anymore (dogs, mowers-not mowing my Hosta,but maybe stepping in beds?- critters maybe). I have some that look similar to me, but I do like to buy ones I like when they also have names that I like. For example, I have started a Tolkien bed with the Academy Hostas that are available. Most parts of the yard/garden with Hostas throughout are simply arranged to please the eye-mine at least. :)

So many, dare I say all, of you have such marvelous hosta gardens that I am constantly inspired to do better. Sadly, this old brain retains very little these days it seems. *sigh*

Steve,

Exactly, the more experimentation done the greater the variety. I would suggest that ranking by people like the AHS helps, especially the ratings which shows a group of hostas voted on. I think that it would be nice if they had a rating of the top 5 new hostas each year.

It might take away a little prestige for the Hosta of the Year and maybe that is why they don't do this. Is there any source that would show the top selling new hostas each year? I tried a Google search and only found suppliers touting "best sellers" which doesn't mean too much.

Jon

I'm a NAY SAYER.

I like having the different/same options available. For one thing, it is hard for different plants, even look-alikes, to be exactly alike. I won't get offtrack here, but the example of Orange Marmalade and Forbidden Fruit as being alike puzzles me--in my garden they are NOT alike. Plus, the two are very different in their slug resistance and their leaf appearance when exposed to more sun or more shade. In MY garden, it might NOT BE A LOOKALIKE. (I'm not a hybridizer, of course, and there are flaws in this logic, given that the plain greens are so ever present.)

Plus, I'm thinking that keeping lookalikes apart in your garden, it fools the eye into thinking they are more alike than they really are. Which is why I've formed the habit of placing the similar colorations near one another so I can observe them side by side. Also, you might wind up with a row of similar looking plants which are en masse similar, but when the pollenators arrive to go from flower to flower, they will make crosses of similars that lead to very different lookers. Superficially they may appear alike, but they are not identical in DNA or attributes.

A statement of uniqueness sounds good. It is easy to say that "nothing like this exists" but how you prove it is another matter. Just because there are no elephants in my back yard does not prove that my "Elephant Deterrent" really works...I submit....

As I expected, there are several well thought out ideas/opinions on this topic that folk took the time to write and post.

I look forward to reading more!

fwiw,

hh

I have to walk the fence on this question, having been one of the unfortunates who loves the appearance of Great Expectations so much I have bought it many times and failed. Now I have Dream Queen which is doing what GE has done. A couple of weeks ago I bought Dream Weaver and if it doesn't work I will try Thunderbolt. I have only ~65 varieties and only add a half dozen or so a year. I still list DQ but it doesn't look like it will make it so DW is a replacement. If we didn't have look-alikes I wouldn't have the opportunity to fill the void GE has left in my garden plans.

But then when I was looking for the ID of my Honeybells that was mislabeled Invincible at the nursery I was crosseyed looking at seemingly hundreds of greenies with slightly rippled edges and the same vp count. It is hard to come up with a reason why all exist. But I do like to collect the species greenies. ventricosa and clausa var. normalis are unique for their spectacular blooms.

Les

Yes. As a newbie, it is all too confusing to have look alike hosta and not know which to buy. Or I buy one I really like and then read here on the forum, there is a better one that looks the same. For example: right after I bought Francis Williams, there was a thread that mentioned how badly the edges burn out and you should get ____ I can't remember the name right now! See how confusing it all is!

But I can understand Les's opinion on having more than one similar option if something doesn't do well for you.

Steve, I researched the sequencing of Dream Weaver, Dream Queen, and Thunderbolt:

Dream Weaver, sport of Great Expectations, registered by Bonnie Ruetenik/Kevin Walek in 1996.

Dream Queen, sport of Great Expectations, registered by Van den Top in 2000.

Thunderbolt, sport of Elegans, originated at Hawkridge Farms but was not registered.

I bought all three, DQ being the first. Had I known that DW was a look-alike I wouldn't have bought it. DQ is doing fine but not DW.

I bought all three hostas from the same retailer. I just went to the retailer's website to check the descriptions and not one states any similarity to the others. It also states that Thunderbolt is a vigorous grower. I also checked out the Hallson website and they only carry Dream Weaver.

I believe a lot more could be done at the retailer level to address the look-alike problem.

Hostahosta, the Frances Williams look-alike is Olive Bailey Langdon.

"And that ties into the second reason: greed. Nurseries introduce new (look-alike) hosta to be able to sell a new introduction."
Maybe you should work in, manage or own a nursery before you so glibly condemn someone trying to make a living selling plants as greedy. It's a difficult business, and I don't know any growers driving around in Rolls Royces.
However, I do know a lot of growers driving around in very, very old cars.
Just because you want something and can't afford as much as you want, it doesn't make the seller greedy. I think it's time we put this nasty, destructive stereotype to rest.
After all, if it weren't for breeders and growers, you wouldn't be able to buy the plants you cherish so much.
I sell plants to make a living. Those plants include hosta. And I am not greedy. Greedy people enter more lucrative trades than the nursery business.

Ninamarie, I believe that some growers and retailers like you grow and sell hostas because they love them like we, here at GW do. Some even have their own collections.

I'm amazed when I google any specific hosta at how prominently GardenWeb figures in the websites that are displayed. Hopefully, growers and retailers will take note and indicate in their catalogues and their websites when hostas are reputed to be look-alikes. I've noticed that Hansen Hostas does. I like the way their website is set up so you can cross-reference sports with the parent. Buyers of hostas often don't know about the look-alikes until its too late and they've already bought one.

plantaginea isn't bad regarding it's bloom either, though its lighter green color is less common, it seems to me, than the dark green look-alikes.

I have in the past 2 seasons bought Niagara Falls and Queen of the Seas. They are both children so I haven't been able to witness mature leaf shapes, vein counts, or mound shapes. At this point they appear very similar. But I needed a few hostas with pie-crusted edges. I saw one with very dark green and pie-crusted leaves I might pick up.

Les

HostaLes, very dark green and pie-crusted edges, hmmm, that sounds like Candy Dish to me. :) Does Candy Dish also have a look-alike?

And Irawon, I agree with you on the web bots picking up the posts at GWeb almost immediately and they appear at the top of any search on specific hosta names. It works almost better than doing a search of the forum on GWeb itself!

I use the Zilis Hostapedia to check for similars. And then I go to the MyHostas.Be for the sports and hybrids. However, in my case, I like to get several that are similar or share the same family tree. That is my way of getting the "multiple" look without actually having more than one of a kind. Only, I did break that habit this last month, and ordered two of Honeybells,Little Sunspot, Happy Hearts, Gold Drop, August Moon, clausa, Royal Standard, Masquerade (I seem not to be able to grow that little guy), Tiny Tears, Verna Jean (an overlooked beauty with a white centered leaf on the smaller side).

And now I have some new arrivals sitting in the kitchen hydrating so I can plant them in the morning.

Hostas, lookalikes or not, are hard to resist. I don't mind having backups just in case......

My answer is yes, there are too many lookalikes.

I was all set to blame the hosta registrar for all the duplicates. As I understand it, a hosta is supposed to be unique to be registered. However, I did not find where it said that on the registrar's website. It looks like you just send in your completed form, $5.00 and a photo of a mature clump and you're in business. But, registration isn't necessary to sell you product commercially.

Neither Dream Queen or Thunderbolt is registered. I bought Dream Queen at a local nursery. Also, Paula bought Sun Hosta at Walmart. It is not registered, but is patented. It's supposed to be a sport of So Sweet. It looks exactly like So Sweet to me. It does really well in the heat, though, as does So Sweet.

Looks like free enterprise to me. After looking around, it doesn't appear that things won't change. They're going to keep finding sports in tissue culture. Most of the TC people have access to the growers or are the growers, so they'll keep pushing the new ones out there, even if they are not as good as the oldies.

The hybridizers will keep dabbing pollen, looking for the perfect hosta. The casual hosta grower like me will find a new sport once in a while. We will keep getting new hosta and the old ones will continue to go away.

I used to grow African Violets. One of the really popular ones at the time was Tommie Lou. It was a plain dark green leaf with white speckles and white double flowers, if I remember correctly. You can't buy it anymore. We're people. We're fickle. We crave recognition. We enjoy achievement.

There will be more lookalikes.

bkay

Even when it looks alike to an other hosta, give it a unique name.

I agree,there are too many look-alikes. I once read that a new hosta should be really different to be registered,but apparently,they have ignored that fact. I mean,how many green and white hostas do we need? Phil

HostaLes, Niagara Falls and Queen of the Seas are very different both in form and colour. Queen of the Seas (blue grey) is V-shaped/upright and Niagara Falls (green) is dome-shaped/mounding, at least in my garden.

Bkay, those are some very interesting points to ponder.