Major DUH moment! Using what I have to amend clay.

17 years ago

This is sort of a continuation of a previous question (of mine) about amending our gray-beige-white clay soil. I feel like a complete idiot. I don't know why I didn't think of this before. I guess because everything I read said to "amend it with COMPOST".

I don't have "compost", persay. What I DO have is plenty of leaves and the humus or rich soil underneath them. I also have plenty of twigs and tree limbs. I also have a few bags of cheap topsoil and I think half a bag of soil conditioner left from a previous shopping spree (which is why I have no money left for compost!). Can I use these items to amend the [dirty-word] CLAY?

I also need some advice on the appropriate method, please. Or, if it's not even worth the effort, please let me know.

Thank you so much for your help!

Mari

Here is a link that might be useful: Plants to amend clay soil (prev post)

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (7)

compass5b
17 years ago
Don't dispair Mari! Any well planned soil building is ABSOLUTELY WORTH THE EFFORT!

You sure can use those materials to add organic matter to your soil. Sounds like you're considering bulding a compost pile: Great idea.

I'd suggest chipping those materials you mentioned so that they "cook" faster. If you don't have a chipper, you can use a lawn mower on those leaves. And, really, for all things composting I'd recommend the composting forum.
On a practical note, most gardeners cannot produce compost on a scale appropriate for soil conditioning--mostly on account of our joyful exuberance in hacking out new beds and ending up with many hundreds of square feet to care for. I feel your pain about the shopping spree, but maybe you can consider a small budget for this project during the next few years as a smart investment.

Here's a link to a compost calculator, and just for comparison, I pick up compost in a truck by the cubic yard and pay $23-25/cu.yd.

If that's not an option, you can get a good start with what you have and keep an eye out for good sources of free compost goodies!
-Hannah

Here is a link that might be useful: Compost calculator
adayfromnow
Original Author
17 years ago
Thanks, Hannah. It was such a beautiful day here yesterday, I just HAD to go outside & play in the dirt! Hopefully my "use a little bit of everything available" method of amending will sustain the life of the gifts from neighbors that I planted yesterday (daylilies, delphiniums, irises, purple basil).

I tried to follow the lasagna method as much as I could. I think I ended up with about 3 parts "good stuff" to 1 part clay, and dug deep and wide. I didn't have any pea gravel or gypsum, though.

I finally decided yesterday that I AM going to start a compost pile of my own (hubby can just get over it!) for "emergencies". Based on the calculator link (thank you), I need about 3 cu yards for the area I'm working. About $75 worth. LOL! That's right in line with every trip I've made to the garden centers this year. No matter what I went to get, the tickets were ALL around $75! I'm not allowed to get close to a garden center for a while.

Thanks so much for your help (and support)! Wish me luck!

Mari
Related Discussions
Major clay soil amending project...timing?
Q
Comments (23)
Concrete is made by mixing sand, water, gravel/rocks, and CEMENT. Without the cement you cannot make concrete. Clay particles in soil are already seated closely with themselves. As was mentioned, adding sand is not always a cure, but it's not necessarily bad. Adobe bricks are made by mixing low sand content soil with grassy stuff (like straw), plenty of water, mixing it vigorously to drive the air out of the mix, and letting it dry into brick forms. Driving out the air is important to the adobe process. Good soil is often a mix of clay, sand, and loam. But as for the clay, chances are very good the original poster did not have clay at all. We've learned a lot on the various lawn forums in the 9 years since this post was started. It is much more likely the OP had an imbalance of salts creating clay-like conditions. Adding silica sand does not change the salt balance. Adding limestone sand can make it worse or better depending on the chemistry of the original soil. Today we would have suggested the OP get a soil test from Logan Labs and post it here before adding sand or anything else.
...See More
Will plants that don't make it help amend soil or clay?
Q
Comments (7)
Do, do keep your photos of your yard now - and brag later! Before and after... Plectranthus ciliatus is a South African plant which does awfully well under trees. Awfully. In a lot of our areas it settles down and suppresses native plants with much efficiency. Frost whacks it back but it does recover to go on its way. Zones 9-11 usually, but will probably do its best in a zone 8 microclimate. OK for a patch but you'd have to be desperate to bulk plant it, IMO. I've not been clear, and I apologise. Humus is ancient compost. When all the bacteria, fungi, bugs, worms and weather have finished with the banana skin you popped into your compost bin humus is what is left - and a thin layer it is, too. That's why gardeners keep adding more of it. Mulch is the top layer. It can be 'hard mulch' such as gravel or shells. There are some plants which do brilliantly with that kind of mulch - lavender, for example. There's reflected heat for the top and cool feet for the roots. It is also surprisingly good at retaining moisture. Softer mulch such as bark cambium or nuggets. Single season mulches such as a layer of newpaper topped with grass clippings or shredded small (ie no fatter than quarter inch diameter) twigs and green leaves. Always put mulches on when the ground is wet. Know that having the mulch can 'slow down your season' because the soil stays cooler. That can be either a drawback - or a plus if your hot weather comes in with a rush and saddens any flowers you have out. In the 'middle' of these two - humus and mulch - is compost. And it varies a lot. You can put it on when you can still tell what some of the ingredients were - and use it as mulch. Or you can wait for a couple of years and use it when it has a nice earthy smell, feels delightful to put your hands in, and you'd never know what it was made of. Making compost is a bit like making bread dough. If you can do one - you've a good chance of success with the other. It's all about ingredients and activators, warmth and moisture. It is NOT tricky. Nature does it all the time. Look at what happens to fall leaves... What you the gardener are trying to do is to increase the thickness of the humus-rich layer on the top - and the depth to which roots can go - plus the worms. My own personal view as a clay soil gardener is to minimise the amount of digging/rototilling that's done from year to year. The worms set up their runs and burrows and start shifting food particles down to where the roots can make use of the food - and we come and remake the bed! Dig over when you take out plants at the end of a season, add more compost on top and fork it through the top 6-12 inches (it will happen!), then mostly leave it alone - and stay OFF the beds as much as possible. When fall comes - stash some plastic totes in the vehicle - ignore the stares - and scrounge as many fallen leaves as you legally can. You can either put them directly on bare soil, or into the compost heap. Or, best of all, hold them in a plastic container, add some water so they're damp, and let them rot in their container in a quiet patch in the garden for a couple of years or so to turn into precious leaf mould (aka humus). It's great for adding to containers for growing plants that like a touch of 'soil' in the mix to do well.
...See More
Christmas tree woes and a 'duh' moment
Q
Comments (18)
Sandi, I'm just praying none of the rest go out! I don't think I could go through this again! Yachter, I was thinking the same thing last night about luck. I kept thinking why is it that everyone else's stuff always ends up so beautiful and everything I try messes up! I was almost in the middle of a major pity party. LOL! Slinkey, the "Christmas Demon" made me laugh! I just wish I could get my husband to help with something. As soon as he sees me pulling out the Christmas stuff, he heads out the door like greased lightning. Luvs, frazzled is an excellent description of how I was feeling last night. I can totally sympathize with your DS. I wanted to open the door and just throw the whole thing out. How is it that something so simple like a string of lights can be soooo complicated??? Lynne, I would never have thought of using the netting! I can't wait to see photos of the tree. Wow Tam, your home sounds like mine! I've got containers pulled out everywhere. I did manage to make a tiny pathway going through the kitchen. My sofa and all the chairs are piled up with ornaments and decorations - no where to sit in the living room right now except the floor (and not very much floor space). I'm so tired of seeing plastic tubs around everywhere. It seems like I'm never going to get finished. Purplemoon, believe me pre-lit was looking really good last night! Hopefully your lights will be on with no problems! I have officially decided that I loathe putting lights on the tree. LOL dd50, how aggravating for your husband having to redo the lights! That sounds alot like my husband except he probably wouldn't have redone them. He has no patience at all when it comes to Christmas decorating. Sheesharee, nope the tree isn't finished yet. It was probably about 9:00 last night when I figured out why the middle wasn't lighting up. I did get the garland on and started putting some of my filler ornaments on the tree. I finally stopped at 10 last night...just couldn't do any more. I was just treed out! I guess it'll be back to decorating tonight after I get finished cooking. ncnana, I'm not sure my husband would agree with you about the number of lights. It took 53 strands of lights to wrap the branches and I don't even have that big a tree! It is kinda big at the bottom though which is what took so many strands. It has totally blown his mind that I put 5300 lights on the tree. He told a friend about it last night and the two of them decided I had totally lost it. LOL!
...See More
Amend clay bed AFTER planting shrubs?
Q
Comments (11)
Excellent, excellent questions. Really, the container mix should be thought of as a, hhmmmm, "temporary root support system during commercial development of nursery stock." It would be impractical to grow azaleas hydroponically and market them, so, ergo, you have to have something to grow the roots in. When you plant, you want to break up the root mass and partly attempt to spread it out in the native soil. Yes, you certainly want to spread around any container mix that hasn't been fully rooted into by the plant, rather that plop the whole blob down in the hole. Yes, you want the plant to "forget" about that mix it had been growing in, if I may make them anthropomorphic for a moment. The Rarefind nursery catalog has a good illustration of _one_ approach to breaking up a container soil mass (you can DL the pdf version of the paper catalogs on their website) but it's not the only approach. As a practical matter in a generally moist climate, it's not the end of the world if you irrigate mainly in the root zone, at first, to prevent them from death or set back in dry spells. But yes, long term that kind of watering will somewhat discourage the plants from having to send out long roots to find water. Of course they have create roots to anchor themselves regardless, but maybe they won't create as good a network of feeder roots if they are getting watered near the trunk every week. On Long Island for 90% of landscape material you should be able to eventually not have to water it, even in the sandy soil areas. (which you are obviously not) It's just not that hot and dry a climate or one subject to huge standard deviations of summer rainfall. Yes, if you have a 20 year drought and you have stuff you planted in the past 2-3 years, you will have to water it.
...See More
compass5b
17 years ago
LOL! Most of my garden chores are excuses to play in the dirt, too! Sounds like you had a great day! Good luck,
Hannah
rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
17 years ago
And don't mourn the pea gravel and gypsum. Neither will do anything to help with the clay issue. The organic matter will!
morz8 - Washington Coast
17 years ago
Mari, do you have a Home Depot nearby? They have a very well composted steer manure mix (with completely aged wood chips)for 98 cents per bag here - dry and easy to handle. 5 or 10 bags can be an enormous help. I'll buy about 30 bags per year to supplement homemade compost and top dress established beds with it - the worms help work it down in. Another plus, it's been weed free for me.
adayfromnow
Original Author
17 years ago
Thanks for all your help, y'all. I can't begin to tell you how much your direct answers have helped me. I'm trying to learn all of this on my own, but I've researched myself into a state of total confusion!

Rhizo_1, for example, [you] said that the pea gravel & gypsum wouldn't help, but I was under the impression they were necessary to improve the drainage of the clay. So now I'm really confused. Is there a particular KIND of organic material that helps drainage(leaves, or compost, or soil)?

Thanks for the tip morz8. There is a Home Depot nearby, but I'm afraid to go because of my "$75/day habit" (okay, so it's $75 per TRIP, but still!). LOL. How big are the $1 bags?

Seriously though, what do I do with the manure when I get it? My FIRST question is will my dogs want to roll in it? If so, I probably don't want to spread it on top of my new beds (or anywhere they can get to it for that matter, if it stinks). I also don't want to put it on the new beds if it stinks because they are right outside my bedroom window! ICK!

Thanks,
Mari
morz8 - Washington Coast
17 years ago
The bags are 1 cu. foot ea. Occasionally I open a bag with a slight barnyard odor, but for the most part this stuff is no more strongly scented than a bag of potting soil. Any scent would be gone by bedtime if you sleep with open windows, and I haven't noticed any neighborhood pets showing any interest in it.

You can either spade it in, or top dress with it and let the worms help work it in, just like any other compost.

Major DUH moment! Using what I have to amend clay.

Comments (7)

compass5b

adayfromnow
Original Author

Related Discussions

compass5b

rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7

morz8 - Washington Coast

adayfromnow
Original Author

morz8 - Washington Coast

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Major DUH moment! Using what I have to amend clay.

Comments (7)

compass5b

adayfromnowOriginal Author

Related Discussions

compass5b

rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7

morz8 - Washington Coast

adayfromnowOriginal Author

morz8 - Washington Coast

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

adayfromnow
Original Author

adayfromnow
Original Author