I wouldn't since many times the small nicks and scratches are impossible to see yet enough to cause problems. But without seeing the pot there is no way to know so it is your choice to try. No other non reactive pans available instead?

As to pumpkin pickles, I assume you know they are only recommended for fridge storage not canning fro shelf storage? In theory, cubed pumpkin may be pressure canned but the end result isn't really desirable IMO.

Per NCHFP:

Pickling Pumpkin

Pumpkin can be used in pickled recipes such as salsas, chutneys, and relishes; however, these recipes must be treated as fresh foods and refrigerated. They cannot be safely canned by either the boiling water or pressure canning methods.

Since pumpkins are very low acid vegetables great care must be taken for safety sake.

Dave

Pumpkin pickles are on page 301 of the ball complete book very clearly intended for canning

I can't see why the cubed pumkin would be undesireable pressure canned when it is intended to be mashed for pumpkin pie and such

An unchipped enamel canner is safe to use.
As for the pickled pumpkin,that is not a USDA approved recipe. It is because the Ball Complete book is not a USA publication, but a Canadian one. The guidelines can vary between the USA and Canada.
So, if you feel safe in canning it, then it is your choice. All I know is that we provide the information at the extension office that Dave posted here. We only recommend the cubes in water in a pressure canner.

I really feel, to be as polite as I can, that it is xenophobia to suggest that a Canadian publication under the aegis of Jarden Corp. and carrying the logo of Ball canning, edited by Bernardin and Ball (Lauren Devine is a test kitchen scientist with Ball), is going to offer unsafe recipes.

That's as absurd as suggesting the Ball Blue Book is "unsafe," when if anything, Ball has gone overboard to assure the opposite. They're so leery of lawsuits I'm amazed they even include instructions for pressure canning.

It is perfectly possible for a book to be published in a country other than the U.S. and offer safe canning recipes.

That pumpkin pickle is 2 cm (3/4-inch) cubes in a 100% vinegar brine hot-packed and BWB 20 minutes. What the heck could happen with that?

Yes, use your enamel canner and make the pickle without any worries.

(I wouldn't, but that's only because I tried a refrigerated pumpkin pickle and decided I didn't care for them, but assuming you like pumpkin this way, go right ahead.)

Carol

I didn't know there was a recipe in the Ball Complete Book for pickled pumpkin - hundreds of recipes in that book after all - and since no mention was made of that source in the OP there was no way for me to know that. It sounds more like one of the things they come with on recipezaar.com to me. That's one reason why including the source, especially when dealing with unusual recipes, should be included in the post/question.

So no xenophobic or anti-Canadian-source criticism was intended by me and I don't think Linda Lou intended that either. I was merely pointing out the USDA policy on pickled pumpkin canning and she was merely pointing out that guidelines differ from country to country. And they do. It doesn't necessarily make them unsafe - merely different - and something to be aware of.

It is perfectly possible for a book to be published in a country other than the U.S. and offer safe canning recipes

Of course but as we all know there are any number of books published both in the US and in other countries that are NOT safe. IMO Jarden/Ball publications are safe but let's not give "canning recipes published in books" a blanket approval. And we need to remember that non-US publications are not subject to USDA guidelines IF that is of particular concern to you as it is for me.

Personally I can't relate to the idea of pickled pumpkin but if it is in the Ball Complete Book and I WAS into Pickled Pumpkin then I would trust their recipe. However, as I said above, I wouldn't use an enamel BWB pot to make something highly acidic in. Could easily be a waste of time and food IMO but the choice is illuci's of course.

I can't see why the cubed pumkin would be undesireable pressure canned when it is intended to be mashed for pumpkin pie and such

If that is your intended use, sure no problem. But if intended for any of the many other uses then it is very "mushy".

Dave

Carol,
Relax.
I have to follow USDA guidelines. As you said, it is a liablilty thing for me. Perhaps that is not an issue for you, but it is for me. There is no fear nor hatred here.... no xenophopia, as you would say.
I actually own that book. There are many different and interesting recipes in there.
Looks to me that Dave was not even aware that there was the recipe posted in the Ball Complete Book. He only posted the information he knew from NCHFP. I see nothing wrong in that.
I am not saying there are not other safe things out there in the world. This is just a difference between information by different sources. The poster now knows both the USDA information and the one from the Ball book.
This isn't the only information that differs from the two sources.
I see no problem showing the differences in references. This is another way for people to learn, by comparing things.
Now she can decide for herself what she wishes to follow.

I have a newfound appreciation for extra caution since I started selling meat.

As for these pickles, I am using a recipe I found in the book The Joy of Pickling by Linda Ziedrich -- I was using the 1998 version but when I checked the revised 09 version, the only differences were amount of pumpkin (up a 1/2 lb) and headspace (up to 1/2 inch from 1/4) She does include water with the vinegar 1:1, with lots of sugar.
She says to process for 10 minutes in a BWB -- I had done pickled beets at 20 minutes and thought that must be the more recommended time.

They are DELISH.

Sorry but when it comes to assured safety, the Joy of Pickling is a whole different thing from the safety of the Ball/Jarden books.

I don't have access to the revised edition recipe in JOP but pumpkin, which is low-acid to begin with, in a 50% vinegar (50:50 vinegar and water) solution would be a very marginal recipe. And the 10 mins. processing is too short.

Ball calls for 100% vinegar in their pumpkin pickles recipe plus the juice of 1 lemon and 20 mins processing. That is a safe recipe.

Dave

I haven't read the Ball recipe myself, but someone said it calls for 6 cups of pumpkin to 1 cup vinegar.

My recipe uses pounds instead of cups. It calls for 1 3/4 pounds pumpkin to 2 cups vinegar & 2 cups water. When I weighed a cup of the cubed pumpkin, it was 1/4 pound. So that translates to 7 cups pumpkin to 2 cups vinegar. It seems to me that the addition of water would dilute it by half, resulting in approximately the strength recommended by the Ball recipe. (6:1)

Does that work out? Or can you not measure acidity in halves and such like that?

Linda Lou said, It is because the Ball Complete book is not a USA publication, but a Canadian one. I think that can be reasonably construed as implying that only USA publications (i.e. printed in the USA) are acceptable.

I do understand the constraints on Extension-trained MFP's. But I am personally very much opposed to a rigid adherence to rules without evidence to support them.

Neither the Ball Blue Book nor the Ball Complete Book of Home Preserving makes any reference to the USDA or provides any bibliography.

So why should I assume that one corporate publication printed in the US does adhere to USDA principles and the other corporate publication printed in Canada doesn't? Perhaps the Ball Blue Book isn't trustworthy either.

Can instances be cited in the Ball Complete Book of Home Preserving that fail to meet USDA standards or are less stringent than those in the Ball Blue Book? That would be substantive proof I would happily accept. But the fact that it's a Canadian publication is entirely beside the point.

Wouldn't it be more accurate and fair for Extension-trained MFP's to acknowledge that they are not independent agents and are discouraged from recommending sources other than those specifically emanating from the USDA? Then the reader of the post knows the MFP is not in a position to approve or disapprove, barring evidence of deficiency.

I am also aware that written communication can come off as other than intended, and I include myself in that group.

Linda Lou, I have a great deal of respect for your contributions to this forum. Our philosphical differences don't change that.

Getting back to the pumpkin pickles, I did make an error in reading and didn't check posters' id's carefully enough. I assumed it was the OP who was looking at pumpkin pickles in the Ball Complete Book . . . when it was actually someone else. Obviously, if the OP had another recipe from a different source in mind (say a recipe posted on a blog) then the pumpkin pickles might not be appropriate to can.

Carol

Does that work out? Or can you not measure acidity in halves and such like that?

Well here is the problem, or concern might be a better word. pH doesn't remain stable during shelf life. It gets more alkaline with time. 100% straight 5% vinegar remains stable much longer than diluted 2.5% will. Added to that, there is also the water that is in the food itself, in the pumpkin. That dilutes the vinegar even more.

So what you have with the JOP recipe is a low acid food pickled/canned in 2.5% (or less) vinegar and underprocessed per the recipe. It is your choice as to whether you feel that is safe or not.

The Ball recipe (page 301) is also in cups - 24 cups of cubed, seeded, peeled pie pumpkin or butternut squash in 3/4" cubes with 4 cups of white vinegar, no added water, 2 cinnamon sticks, 12 whole allspice, 10 whole cloves, juice of 1 lemon (more acid), and 6 cups of sugar. Boil syrup for10 mins., add the pumpkin, return to boil and boil gently for 3 mins, remove spice bag and jar. BWB process for 20 mins.. This is a tested and approved recipe, the JOP recipe is not.

Hope this helps.

Dave

I know that MFPs are only allowed to recommend recipes approved by the USDA, which is why I have often noted that everyone should have all the information, and then make an informed decision as to the level of risk they wish to take.

I use many Canadian recipes, that's where the Habanero Gold came from, the recipe was on Bernardin's website. I trust that the company has addressed the safety of their recipes before they publish them and the fact that they are not published in America doesn't make me suspect them automatically.

Which is something completely different from finding a recipe on a blog or recipe site and just figuring that since it's on the internet, it's OK. Sigh. People don't understand that anyone can put anything on the internet, right, wrong, indifferent, safe or not.

As for the pickled pumpkin, I agree with Linda Lou in that an intact enameled pan should be fine. I also agree with Carol that recipes shouldn't automatically be discounted simply because they aren't specifically promoted by the USDA.

Yup, canning is complex, sometimes. And I've never even HEARD of pickling pumpkin, I only pressure can it and then mash it up for baking.

Annie

Annie, I agree with what you said.
"I know that MFPs are only allowed to recommend recipes approved by the USDA, which is why I have often noted that everyone should have all the information, and then make an informed decision as to the level of risk they wish to take."
Sometimes my personal views and those I need to state are not always the same. I have to do it at times because of the liablitly issues. I am sure you are very aware of this due to your line of work.

I would recommend the pure vinegar for the pumpkin if you are going to pickle it. I am not sure that half water and half vinegar is sufficient to preserve it. Some vegetables are fine with the 50/50 ratio, some are not.
Carol,this is just a case of me having to say that the USDA guidelines and the ones of the Ball book are different, nothing else. I do hope you can understand. Yes, sometimes the computer is not the best way of communication, I agree.