Yes, because it has all the vinegar added to it. That, and the quince and apples are high acid fruits.
Sorry I did not get back to you sooner.
You can add ginger to the jams.

I'd recommend leaving out the oil or at least reducing it as much as possible. It isn't really needed anyway.

Dave

I agree with Dave - that does seem like a lot of oil. And it also seems like a whole lot of garlic and ginger for such a small amount of apples and quince. Your taste buds may vary.

In Indian cooking, we usually dry roast the seeds - just put them in a dry skillet. With ground spices, we usually bloom them - just put them in a tiny amount of oil and the goal is to cook them just enough to remove the raw taste.

You can add water to the pan to simmer the garlic, ginger and peppers in lie of all the oil. The goal is really to soften and get rid of the raw taste, not necessarily to "fry"

You could get away with 1 tsp. or 1 1/2 tsp. (1/2 Tbsp.) of oil easily if you'd rather not dry-roast. I don't see it as a problem with that amount of ingredients and it would achieve the same result. In fact, it would probably be an improvement as the oil wouldn't change the mouth-feel or mask flavors.

The garlic has natural moisture and the ginger clearly does, so there'd be plenty of liquid there. If not, add just a bit of the vinegar. Also, I would toast the spices, add the ginger and chilies and only add the garlic the last 30 seconds. Garlic should get minimal cooking because otherwise it turns bitter. Just cook gently and briefly until fragrant.

Carol

What's a "bulb" of garlic? 1/2 clove seems too small but how do you even measure (how many cloves in?) half a head? I agree, leave out the oil, you can just add back a little of the quince juice if you need more liquid.

Thanks to everyone for their feedback. I feel much better about the recipe now and will use your suggestions.

I forgot to mention that I found this recipe on a website called "hitchhikingtoheaven.com". There are numerous canning recipes as well as an e-book. The photos are beautiful and the ingredients are mouth-watering. Has anyone here had a look at the site and if so is there an opinion on the safety of the recipes?

Has anyone here had a look at the site and if so is there an opinion on the safety of the recipes?

Well it is just a personal blog and offers no credentials so recipes from those are always used at your own risk. Each one has to be examined individually. Some of the ones for jams I reviewed are fine. It is difficult to make a jam recipe unsafe as long as it isn't one of the low acid fruits. But I would have concerns about a few of the mixed ingredients recipes that are like this one above - include oil and high levels of low acid ingredients. Even though she does refer the reader to NCHFP for the guidelines she doesn't always follow them.

I really don't care for some of the books she recommends as we have discussed the problems with them here before.

JMO

Dave

I took a look at the site. Lovely photography. Apparently, she's a novice preserver even if "prize-winning." She seems very up-front about her limited experience but growing interest in the art of canning.

I wouldn't pay for her e-book. Most of the recipes seem pretty mundane and not very many for the price.

I think it's like a lot of cooking/canning sites. It's fun to read and there are recipes to be gleaned, but I take it on a case-by-case basis and don't assume everything there is trustworthy.

Carol

I'd like to chime in on the safety of this recipe: I believe it to be perfectly safe. The recipe as written includes 6 pounds of high acid fruit (apples + quince), which, according to the Ball Book, is about 20 cups. Compare that to approximately 2 cups of low acid veg (garlic, ginger, peppers) and the recipe even without added vinegar would be safely acidic: I've made many chutneys, salsas and tomato sauces straight out of the Ball Book that had a much higher ratio of low acid:high acid ingredients. The addition of 2 cups of vinegar makes the recipe even more acidic and certainly is enough to counteract the 3 tbsp of vegetable oil.

If you remain unconvinced, consider Hitchhiking to Heaven's recipe for marinated red peppers, developed by Eugenia Bone and vetted by the MFP program at UC Davis: http://hitchhikingtoheaven.com/2010/10/pimientos-rojos-marinated-roasted-red-peppers.html That recipe contains a full cup of olive oil, 4 pounds of low-acid vegetables, yet only 3 cups (2 cups vinegar + 1 cup lemon juice) of acidic ingredients.

There is also Marisa's post at Food in Jars, on the safety of including small amounts of oil in canning: http://www.foodinjars.com/2011/11/canning-101-is-it-safe-to-can-products-that-contain-some-oil/

And finally, as Shae suggests in her marinated pepper post, you can always contact your state co-op extension office if you are unsure about the safety of any recipe: http://www.csrees.usda.gov/Extension/

Full disclosure: I know Shae of Hitchhiking to Heaven and she is not only part of my online canning/preserving community, she is a friend. I encourage every preserver to confirm the safety of any canning recipe, whether published or online, for themselves, but it is important to make sure you have all the facts at hand before you deem a tested recipe "unsafe", especially in a public forum.

Hi Everybody:

I'm the author of Hitchhiking to Heaven. I couldn't add anything more to Kaela's thorough discussion of acidity, above, but I would like to say that I have always tried to be vigilant about posting only high-acid recipes on my blog. As Kaela mentioned, if I have a question about a recipe, I contact my state's co-operative extension office and talk to a master food preserver. (I am hoping to attend a master food preserver program, myself, next spring.)

I wrote the post that includes this chutney recipe just about a year ago, and I have since filled a thousand or more jars with fruit. Though I study the subject of jam making almost daily, I never do, as Carol points out, hold myself out as an expert. In fact, I try to face every recipe as though I am a beginner -- even if I've already made it many times. I find great joy in preserving, and my intention is to share my personal experience and some inspiration with others while staying safe!

Best,
Shae

P.S. A "bulb" of garlic is the same as a head. I amended the recipe to clarify that. :-)

Cross-pollination of canning forums and blogs is always great. Anything that fosters dialogue.

I think one of the issues is that it can be difficult on the face of it to know with certainty whether a recipe falls into the safe range or not. That's why it's always helpful to know a recipe's provenance and where it falls within the acid spectrum. It eliminates the necessity for research and laborious comparison to similar formulas.

The other issue, of course, is processing time and whether with thick mixtures it's sufficient for adequate heat penetration.

But mainly it's good to know because this chutney does sound delicious. I have a friend with a quince who will be glad to see it.

As far as Eugenia Bone is concerned, I have her book, but I can't understand why she uses Fruit Fresh in her tomatoes, as that's far more dilute than pure citric acid. I think she missed on that one.

Carol

I appreciate both of you taking the time to respond to our concerns and welcome to our forum by the way. But please do note that no labeled the recipe "unsafe".

I think we all agreed as to the overall safety of the recipe but the issue raised isn't one of acidity as kaela indicated. It is the oil. And that is a different issue entirely.

As we all know oil is clearly restricted in canning recipes for several reasons. It may shelf life or cause rancid flavors but most importantly because of the insulating effects of oil on bacteria and the reduced heat penetration that results. That is what restricts its use and that restriction is well documented by NCHFP/USDA. So aside from a very few highly tested USDA recipes it's use poses a potential threat and especially so when one is dealing with low acid ingredients.

And of course we cannot safely extrapolate from one recipe to another with any degree of certainty. So the use of oil in those few tested and approved recipes doesn't mean it can be incorporated into other recipes too.

So when oil is not required in the recipe, as in this case, or when other options are available, the recommendation is to eliminate it or at least to reduce it as much as possible.

With the understanding that we all have different levels of risk acceptance, I hope this clarifies the issue a bit.

Dave

In the same line of thinking as Dave - no where in this chutney referenced blog post does it address the use of oil - and why it is safe in this recipe. There is no reference to a trusted source for this recipe. Which is why I think it is perfectly legit for seaglassgirl to be questioning it's safety.

There is really no comparison to marinated peppers - 2 completely different types of recipes.

I will admit that I am on record as not being a fan of Marissa at Food In Jars - and the link that Kaela referenced as to the safety is a perfectly legitimate reason as to why I am not a fan. She just makes a general comment about the recipe being "a pickle from a tested, trusted recipe that has plenty of acid and it includes a small amount of oil." Which is aobut as far from a legitimate reference as there is. This is not the type of answer I would expect from somebody who considers themselves a canning expert.

Hi Folks:

I did notice that no one had actually called the recipe unsafe, and I appreciated that. And I fully support anyone questioning the safety of any recipe. I think that's smart, and I'm glad seaglassgirl asked about it.

Dave's concern about the âÂÂmixed-ingredientâ recipes on the blog spurred me to look at them more closely. If a recipe I had posted was putting people at risk, I would want to immediately take it down or modify it, so it felt important for me to seek confirmation of the safety of those recipes.

Having consulted Kaela (a chemist) and then, after Dave's last note, both another MFP and a professional food-science chemist, I feel confident that the two canning recipes on the blog that contain oil are fine as posted. (I asked them to consider each one separately.) IâÂÂm truly grateful for this opportunity to confirm and clarify. ItâÂÂs always good to be reminded that one needs to look sharp, where safety is concerned, and I agree with Dave that we can let this one rest with an understanding that folks have equally acceptable, differing feelings about risk tolerance.

I'm not likely to post more recipes containing oil because, as my canning preferences have developed, I've learned that the savories aren't my primary interest. I will, however, amend both of the existing recipes to indicate that, concerning the oil, I have vetted them with food-safety professionals, but that one should hold off if concerned in any way.

Best,
Shae

Thanks for clarifying the "bulb" Shae - but I was still wondering how many cloves that was since heads of garlic can differ in size (as do peppers, onions, etc.). Very hard to figure how many cups of low-acid ingredients with "1 or 2" peppers (could be anywhere from 6 oz to 2 lbs!) and "1/2 bulb" of garlic, though 2C of vinegar plus the high-acid fruits *sound* like enough.

I realize you had this reviewed, but it's best to measure the peppers and garlic, esp. since you are mincing them anyway, that way someone who has large produce won't be led astray. Maybe you can revise the recipes with measurements/weights?

Ajsmama, I agree with you! Even if the recipe were written in terms of "cloves" of garlic, it wouldn't be precise, because some cloves are tiny and others are ginormous. It would be most clear if the measurement were given in measures or weights, and then people could vary quantities if they saw fit. With this recipe, I'd revise it if I were to make it again -- either personally or for a cookbook. Since this particular post was a report of my own experience/experiment with the recipe I was given, and I made it just those two times (as described), I'll probably leave it be for now. The garlic is largely a matter of personal taste, and the peppers do at least say "small" and "large," so I think -- until I get another hankering for chutney -- I'm going to leave those ingredients to people's preferences and common sense. The feedback, however, is noted and appreciated!

P.S. I wanted to invite you to take a look at the updates I published for both posts.

The chutney:
http://hitchhikingtoheaven.com/2010/11/spicy-quince-and-apple-chutney.html

The peppers:
http://hitchhikingtoheaven.com/2010/10/pimientos-rojos-marinated-roasted-red-peppers.html

Thanks again for helping me make the blog better.