Cora,how old is your avocado? I grew one from seed one year, seven years later it produced fruit and has every year since. I supply all my friend with them. So don't give up on your tree, it just might need to mature. Of course, I was told mine would never fruit or that the quality would be poor, but it wasn't, so anything is possible. :o)

Smudge pots worked very well, but while the freezes didn't get the groves here in Pinellas, progress did. We don't need smudge pots here anymore, we have asphalt and concrete....

Tom, you have found the answer! Asphalt jungle! Also I find if you have a big canapy from a tree, that also helps. I have neither so it is survival of the fittest!
I'm with you Rick, even though I'm a little North of you.

Don't they still use smudge pots at the Sunken Gardens on 4th st. N. in St Pete ? They have an awful lot to lose if they don't ...... I know I have saved a lot of tender stuff with covering, also with wrapping Christmas tree lights around the trunk, I saved my Haden Mango that way, I think just the small increase in temp. helped, also positioning flood-lights at the base of the tree, just that small heat helps.. of course, it depends on how cold it actually gets..... back in '84-85 we had a prolonged very cold freeze and I lost all my papayas also lots of other tender stuff, it was Christmas and there was a rolling energy-cutback and I couldn't get my turkey cooked and the house got cold cold cold, my grandkids were all sitting around with their coats on inside the house.... but the power Co. had to ration the electric because there was so much demand on the system..... sally

Sally - If you really believe your Christmas tree lights and floodlights saved your mango, I have a bridge for sale. Trust me, I own it, and can offer it to you for a seriously reduced price. Just send me your American Express card number, expiration date, and the last four digits of your Social Security number. The bridge? It's named after our first president and I bought it several years ago from a guy who once sold refurbished oil filters.

Well Ricky, I live a lot further N than you and I brought young Mango's (Hayden and Kent) through some cold winters until they are big enough that they get nipped but does not kill the trees. Many folks who lived in the area said you are too far north and too far inland to have mangos. I covered with sheets and put halogen lights under the cover. Many neighbors have not covered and their mango's never made it to maturity.

{{gwi:789147}}

Bernie, want me to swing by next week and bring you some smudge pots? ;-)

I am new (again, lived in Fort Lauderdale, moved to VA and now back to Space Coast area) to Florida again.
Will be paying attention to the threads here on The Florida gardening area.

Interesting reading, I plan on planting things that are survivors here at first anyway. Will be reading tips and what you all do to help your landscape. I saw on a map I am in zone 9

Thank you flyingfish, some folks are just too lazy to even try ! but we know different, don't we ? if you don't try, you never know what you can do... etc... etc... etc.......my Haden is now way up over the roof, it is 40 years old and bears like crazy, it has gone thru' some quite hard freezes since I had to cover it and warm it up back in the 70s and 80s, but it sure paid off ! Some folks say don't water, then why do the strawberry growers in Plant City run their sprinklers > because they know that you want to eat their berries at the Strawberry Festival! Cheers, and a Merry Christmas even to the nay-sayers .... sally

What are smudge pots?

Smudge Pots are explained here.

Oh, I have seen them in orange groves but didn't know that was what they were called. Thanks.

Bump

It's interesting that pineapples can often be produced where mangos cannot. I suppose it's because pineapples only need two years frost-free.

Flyingfish...anyone can mock up something artificial to protect small plants from cold...how are you planning on protecting these mangoes when they get 10, 15, 25 feet high and wide? Oh that's right, they're not really cold hardy in zone 9...

As one plant nut once wrote, "plants can barely eeck or survive a cold winter, but if they don't prosper or ever become something more than gangly sticks, you can't really regard it as hardy."

Ricky's post should be mandatory "terms of forum use" for FL Gardeneres, with an "I ACCEPT/I DECLINE" button. Other points on the post need to include discussion of lack of ENOUGH cold for plants to prosper (e.g. hostas or apples) as well as the blatant duration of heat in summer with high nighttime temps and humidity that will do-in many plants, too.

Southern Exposure - my father-in-law in Okeechobee has an avocado tree on the south side of the house that has been there for two decades and bears well unless frost nips the buds. The trick is that the heat absorbed by that south wall during the day is radiated out far enough at night to protect the plant....

Tom

I hate to contradict, but like Sally (saldut), I too have read many times that more plants die during freezes due to underwatering. This, of course, would not apply to succulents or amaryllis bulbs and such - you have to use your head - but should be used for things like ornamental plants.

An excerpt from the University of Florida publication "Cold Protection of Ornamental Plants":

"Watering landscape plants before a freeze can help protect plants. A well watered soil will absorb more solar radiation than dry soil and will reradiate heat during the night. This practice elevated minimum night temperatures in the canopy of citrus trees by as much as 2F (1°C). However, prolonged saturated soil conditions damage the root systems of most plants."

I would love to start some fruit trees, but haven't decided what varieties yet...and am patiently waiting for spring. I will be taking notes from everyone's posts on good varieties.

My pineapple plants (started from tops of store bought pineapples) have grown nice fruit twice now...really looking forward to spring/summer...burrrr.

Guess we shouldn't have planted two new Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow standards earlier this week, hmm? My husband and I are having a disagreement as to whether or not we should water today (it poured Thursday night) and whether or not to cover the trees tonight. Thoughts????

Water them, they need it. If they're freshly planted, the water will drain away fast enough that you don't have to worry. But the new roots need a drink. Stake them, if you haven't already, but don't cover them.

gusolie ,

Thanks for the encouraging words but you are wrong.

Last year both trees were over 25 feet and had an early bloom. When the temp was below 28 for 6 hours here last Jan, it froze the bloom and the upper layer of folliage. The Hayden which is an early mango bloomed but produced very little fruit. The Keitt produced a good crop. I have not covered these 2 trees in years, but I cut them back everyother year because they are close to SE side of the house and hangar. See Tom's post above as to reason :>)

{{gwi:899980}}
Some of the Keith fruit. These guys weigh 1 1/2 to 2 lbs when mature in Sept-Oct

{{gwi:854805}}
The Hayden, the hangar wall is 12 feet for reference on height.

bernie

All interesting posts...

Here in Vero we are in a cold spot (or "sink" as we so fondly call it). Over the past 5 years we have had at least one freeze (had a few into the mid 20's) each winter that have been cold enough to nearly kill aechmea blanchetianas, crinums and some of the former ornamentals we had. (note the word former, as the tenders have been replace with proper natives)

However, with the 45 or so tropical fruit trees we have, through the use of agrifabric and C9 Christmas lights we have managed to fruit lychees, carambola, 11 varieties of mango as well as Sapodilla and 75 or so pineapple. Some would call us crazy but in my way of thinking I can be creative a few nights a year for the reward of a bounty of tropical fruit.
And yes, (for us at least) the combination of heat and cover does work. Most of the tropical fruits we have are kept at 12' or less which makes for easy heating and covering (sometimes partial, which creates a definitive line of freeze damaged and not damaged.)

So...with all that said, yes you can fruit tropicals in a cold spot with a little effort.

Scott

My mother's YTT (Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow) froze back almost to the ground last year. She lives in Jacksonville, Florida (Southside). It came back very strong from the roots this year. I would suggest that you cover the plant two ways.

First, cover the top of the plant using black plastic trash bags. Don't leave the bags on during the day in the hot sun. Cut four tiny slits in the bottom of the bag (which becomes the top when placed over the plant). The slits allow air to escape so that the bag does not whip around as much in strong wind. Wrap the yellow ties around the trunk going in opposite directions around and around, and then tie the knot. Second, take an old sheet, blanket or towel and wrap tightly around the base of each trunk right around at/on the ground. Use at least two wooden clothespins to keep the towel/blanket/sheet from blowing off. That will at least protect the roots if you lose the top part of the tree. If that happens, you might not have standards next year, but at least you will have shrubs.

I love mine. I have the March bloomer, Mom has the November bloomer (different species). I'm going to take some cuttings from hers in the spring and see if I can't have both! Her is mine from last March:

I think putting plastic next to the plant is not very good, it can burn the foliage... it's best to put the cloth-sheets-blankets- whatever on first and tie it down, and then layer the plastic over the fabric and tie it down, so the plastic does'nt touch the plant... you create a much better greenhouse effect even in colder weather, and it works for me... sally

Sally, the plastic bag is recommended for night only - not in the sun/daytime - as I said above. You are right, it would burn the foliage in the daytime, but it works excellent at night, especially for a new standard where a heavy sheet, towel, blanket would be too much weight.

I agree with Sally. If layers are good for us, then I think they are even better for plants. Do not let plastic touch foliage or it will burn it good.
bernie

It will NOT burn at night. It just contains the warmth. It is excellent for any plant that cannot take a lot of weight. You will save the greenery. Take it off at 8:00 am as soon as the temp has risen above freezing. You will SAVE the foliage, NOT burn it.

interesting think that I have burned foliage at night with plastic.
Will get an opportunity to test a little plant here wed.night to see if I am mistaken.
bernie

Just food for thought: during the winter months, they ship tropical plants in plastic sleeves to the box stores. Saw a whole pallet in plastic at Walmart this afternoon. Plastic is also used to form makeshift terrariums. Plastic in and of itself does no harm to a plant. It is the freezing or burning temp outside the bag that causes the harm.

I'll let it go now. You can have the last word. :)

Soon I'll find out if my supposedly cold-hardy avocado trees really are. I planted them out in february and covered them in the subsequent frosts. With close to year in ground I'm hoping they are strong enough now.

Well, we've just started the first of 4 days of freezing cold weather. I wish your gardens success in battling this northern attack.

Very nice YTT success in JAX! The March/April bloomer is Brunfelsia australis (that is, if you can catch a hint of fragrance).

There are some generalizing errors in your recommendations. Plastic can allow freeze damage, burn, at night, when plastic touches foliage and allows for the direct transfer/loss of heat. It really perplexes me why you are cutting slits in the plastic, as it is allowing for the trapped ground-warmth air to be siphoned out by winds.

Lastly, the naive comment about your observation about plastic sleeve around tropical plants at Walmart takes the cake. Plastic sleeves around individual plants in shipment occurs year round, as the sleeve allow for fast, efficient handling, reduced breakage of foliage and stems and helps contain soil if pots topple. Yes, a wrapping of plastic or paper or anything else around a pallet of plants will provide some protection from the immediate loss of warmth--just like putting a florist plant in a paper grocery or plastic store bag in winter to get it from the warm store to your car.

Congrats if your make-shift hefty bag set-up preserves the Brunfelsia, but I sense there are other microclimate issues helping the situation. I see a wall or building foundation in the photo, I can attest that next to my house and windows, the temp consistently remains 5-8 degrees warmer than 50 feet out on the lawn.

In Jacksonville, we are forecast to have five consecutive nights of hard freezes. If we do, it will be a *record*. As I spent the majority of the day yesterday moving pots, covering plants and setting up lights, I kept rerunning Adam Sandler's "Hanukkah Song" with the lyric "...we have eight craaaazy nights"! Well close - we are going to have five crazy nights!!!

For anyone not familiar with the old Saturday Night Live clip:
Sandler Hanukkah Song

I just bring sll my riends close to the house so they can have the heat, thickly mulch high around the pots and even into the pots *mulch later to be spread around the beds) give them a small drink of water, place the wooden frame that opens and folds up with hinges around them, cover with plastic and turn on several shop lights inside that provide lots of heat. They stay warm, happy and laugh at the cold. I go out each morning and open a side so the heat can escape and then secure each night. The HMA isn't too happy but several members have asked me how to build one so they are popping up over the neighborhood. I also have a microclimate spot in my front yard. My neighbors; yards frost and mine doesn't. The back screened in Florida room gets plastic over the screen and then lights and the hot tub is allowed to run all night lon on a lower heat seeting but the tropicals think it isheavenly as do the lizarfs, frogs and the one black snake that koo[s finding his way in under the door. I am going to have to weatherstrip that door. Whatever else that is not vovered or protected or didn't survive my neglect of the summer is on its own. Linda

Ricky, my crotons are prized possessions that I acquired from you and they are happy and growing and doing well in their little winter greenhouse. I have lots of experience pf protecting tropicals and other tender plants from living in Tallahassee for years and we even managed to protect tomamtes under tons of pinestraw and had fresh tomatoes on Christmas day during the heavy frosts of 85.

hi everyone :-)
I have a question,

humans realize the difference between actual temperature and the feels like temperature (wind chill, humidity)

by what forecast do we go for our plants? the actual temperature or the feels like forecast which is a way lower number?

Evelyn

I have spoken with the plants and they too understand the wind chill factor, only it takes them much longer to react to it.

Our condo Landscape Comm. needs help...we need low maintenance colorful plants for the pool area, high boxes on the building at the porch level. Can you help?

Leighb-
You might want to start a new topic with your question.

Fun post, especially for someone in Miami, bundled up in sweater(s) because it's going to get into the 40s tonight. Okay, so my plants are fine and I don't have to worry about a freeze but once a decade or so. But does Ricky's basic principle apply to not planting annuals that require a lot of water in the dry season or perennials that require special chemical treatments to survive Florida's summer bugs and fungi?
Just wondering. I avoid both because they would leave far too many holes that needed to be filled in my organic-neglectic landscape. And I've seen Ricky's garden, full of a fabulous variety of lovely and site-appropriate plants. Bet he doesn't have to replace much. Bet he sometimes wishes he did because he's running out of room. :)
Susannah

Hi Evelyn, plants go by the actual temperature...not the feels like temps.Thank goodness!

Here's an interesting link about it...

If there is much of a wind chill factor your plants are better off for it. The breeze keeps the frost from forming on the foliage. Frost kills plants faster than below freezing temps.
john

I'm not a fan of plastic coverings on plants and would recommend against it. Leaves touching the plastic are not protected from freezing and it can lead to overheating during the day. But if you want to use it, try putting a layer of newspapers between the plants and the plastic. The newspaper will prevent the leaves from directly touching the plastic and it will also absorb excess moisture that can get trapped inside the plastic covering. The trapped moisture can be a problem if you have to leave the coverings on for more than a day. I don't always have the time during the week to uncover everything before I leave for work and at that time in the morning it's still cold anyway. Then when I get home the temps are already falling. If I covered much, it could easily stay covered for more than 24 hours.

Kate

On the news they showed the strawberry farmers getting their sprinklers ready, and the thermometers out around the fields, they patrol all night checking that temperature, and if it drops they turn on the water and let it go all night, the ice insulates the berries... so you folks who say 'nay' can take a lesson from the pros, they know what they are doing.... sally

What do you know, it looks like it is going to be "eight crazy nights"!

What is Keith fruit?

Scientific speaking (of course) there was the same amount of ice on top of water in the lotus flower pot this morning as there was yesterday. This tells me it was about the same temperature.
But there was frost everywhere this morning and it was a killer frost! Not too much damage until last night...

Now those strawberry growers use large volumes of water to coat the entire plant in ice hoping to keep the plants/fruit/fowers from getting colder than freezing. Now the homeowner (if it were allowed) could never layer plants in that much ice due to lack of water volume...and strawberries are not tropicals. The growers are trying to save the crops. The plants will survive.

That winter of 2009/2010 was a doozy for sure for us naïve, new to SW Florida, fruit tree advocates. The reason I recall it is that I only moved into my new ( to me ) mobile home here, in a large & gorgeous park, right on the supposedly warmish border of zones 9b and 10a in January of 2009. I couldn't wait to plant my first four mango trees. So on March 1st, I drove all the long way down to Ray's Nursery in Homestead, Fla, purchased the finest, most mature 6 1/2 foot tall mango trees I had ever laid eyes on, and diligently lugged them all back up here to Englewood.

Planted them a few days after returning, gave them all the TLC they deserved, and was salivating in their robust growth as 2009 neared it's end. Then, in early or mid December as best I can recall, a vicious cold spell arrived, caught me unprepared, and in no time all four trees died. Hard to forget that winter !

The end !

That was a bad year, for sure. Lost so much stuff; my bananas, my jatrophas, my huge plumeria, my Areca palm, some hibiscus. Lost all the fruit on one orange because I didn't get home in time to pick it all before it froze. My yard looked so horrible after that freeze went through, and my house looked like VietNam because I had brought over 200 potted tropicals in the house, including digging up my brugmansias and taking pups off of most of my bromeliads. Barely had a path through the plants to get out the back door. I don't ever want to go through that again. In fact, I'm moving toward all cold-hardy plants or those I can accept as annuals. I love my plants, but having them take over my house is not my idea of fun anymore.

That was our first winter in FLA too. I thought we had moved to the tropics, but was I surprised! I was sick at heart at the losses. I'm sure it will happen during a future winter. I'll be better prepared (mentally, anyway) to take it in stride the next time around--I think!

Yeah Marcia, what's that old Ben Franklin quote ? " An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure " ? Smart guy that 'ol Ben.

I wasn't even new to Florida as such when those new trees died, - originally moved from New York City to the Upper Keys where I lived for 13 yrs before moving here. But living in the Keys is like living in The Wizard of Oz Land as far as gardening goes. Growing mango trees was so easy there, got complacent, but woke up quickly after moving here ! ( smile )

My 2nd set of mango trees all had Christmass tee lights strung thru them Nov 1st to March 1st. Even had some old sheets to build a small tent over each if it got really bad. Lost no more fruit trees to cold nights after that !

Don't want to sound like I'm complaining tho,..far from it. Was out early ( 7:05 AM ) this morning putting my big garbage bin at the curb and had to pause and take in the scene. Only 58 degrees, - brisk, but I loved it. Sun just peeping over the eastern horizon, casting a warm looking glow to the lawn. But wait, - something different,..NO WIND for a change !

Love being a retiree in SW Florida,...those concrete canyons of NYC are just a faint memory now ! TBTG ! C'mon Mother Nature, try throwing another curve ball at me, will be ready this time ! ( smile )