I'll address the last "tweak" first - is there any reason to double the tomatoes and not anything else? The taste will be affected, as will the acidity (though not much, since tomatoes are borderline). Since the original recipe makes 6 pints, I don't know how you would process the 10 pints or so you'd get from doubling the tomatoes. Better to make 2 batches, and half the low-acid ingredients for each batch while keeping the tomatoes the same if you think you'd still like the taste with reduced garlic, cilantro, etc.

The acidity issue can be addressed by halving the vinegar (or lime juice, which is fine to use - I use half lemon and half lime) and then adding to that the recommended amount of bottled juice or citric acid for HALF the tomatoes - see NCHFP instructions for acidification. That is being conservative, IMHO, substituting lime juice (which is more acidic) for the vinegar would probably be sufficient, esp. if you are omitting (and not substituting more sweet peppers instead of) the hot peppers. To me, though, it's not salsa unless it has a *little* heat to it.

Cilantro does affect the acidity, but a *little* more won't hurt - I am basing that judgement on comaprison of the recipes (your tweaked version with fewer peppers) with Annie's approved recipe which uses 8C of prepared tomatoes, 1C of vinegar, and 4 1/4C total peppers/onions with 1/4C of cilantro.

Since you want to tweak this so much, why don't you try making a batch of Annie's Salsa instead (also makes 6 pints) to see how you like it?

Oh, and yes, you can sub red for yellow or white onions.

1-2-3-4 are fine although go easy on the cilantro because yes, it does change the pH (assuming you are using fresh). Better to add it after opening the jars.

#5 is your problem. Doubling the amount of tomatoes not only changes the pH relative to the amount of acid added but it changes the density substantially. Doing that moves the pH into the realm of unknown pH and unknown processing time.

Sure leaving out the hot peppers would allow for a bit more tomatoes so would using lime juice rather than vinegar. But that wouldn't cover doubling the amount of tomatoes. You'd have to add more lime juice to cover them. How much? Who knows and no telling what it would do to the taste either.

End result is an unknown pH and an unknown density and an unknown processing time required for that change in density.

So you can do 1-4 but not #5. Instead can some plain chopped tomatoes and add them to the jar of salsa after opening it.

Dave

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the recipe would look something like this with your "tweaks" (I have doubled the tomatoes, or rather left them the same while halving the other ingredients and leaving out the hot peppers, so this still makes something like 5 pints rather than 10 which would not fit in *my* BWB):

Tweaked recipe (makes app. 5 pints?)

Ball Zesty Salsa Recipe (from freshpreserving.com)

10 cups chopped cored peeled tomatoes (about 25 medium)
2.5 cups chopped seeded green bell peppers (about 2 large)
2.5 cups chopped onions (about 3 to 4 medium or 1 large)
5 oz cider vinegar (or lemon/lime juice)*
1.5 cloves garlic, finely chopped (app. 1.5 tsp)
1 Tbsp finely chopped cilantro
1/2 Tbsp salt
1/2 tsp hot pepper sauce, optional

*Note this is halving the acid, as previously noted this may be borderline, it would be safer to increase the acid to compensate for the "increased" volume of tomatoes. NCHFP acidification for tomatoes is 1 Tbsp per pint (2C), so that would be 2.5Tbsp (1.25 oz) of lemon (or lime) juice for the 5 "additional" cups, assuming the original recipe had *just* enough acid (vinegar) with no wiggle room. If using vinegar it would be 5 Tbsp (2.5oz) additional, for a total of 7.5oz (so say 1C).

There is still the density issue as Dave said - though I think that "substituting" 5 cups of tomatoes in the (halved) recipe for 1 1/4C peppers would help, it really depends on what kind of tomatoes you're using.

Now, compare above "recipe" with Annie's tested/approved recipe:

Annie's Salsa Recipe

8 cups tomatoes, peeled, chopped and drained
2-1/2 cups onion, chopped
1-1/2 cups green pepper, chopped
3 - 5 jalapenos, chopped (app 1/4C)
6 cloves garlic (may be reduced)
2 teaspoons cumin (may be reduced)
2 teaspoons ground black pepper (may be reduced)
1/8 cup canning salt (or to taste)
1/4 cup fresh cilantro, chopped (may be reduced)
1/3 cup sugar (optional)
1 cup 5% apple cider vinegar
2 cups (16 oz.) tomato sauce
2 cups (16 oz.) tomato paste

Mix all ingredients, bring to a boil and boil for 10 minutes. Pour into hot pint jars, seal and process in a boiling water canning bath for 15 minutes.

Makes about 6 pints

Annie's does have about 3/4C less low-acid ingredients and 2C less tomato, plus adds tomato sauce to thin it out (though my notes say that it is optional - if you're using beefsteaks and not paste tomatoes it may be thin enough, you may want to add more paste and less/no sauce, just make sure it's soupy).

See the thread linked below for complete notes (malna, I had made the same notes myself, took a lot of digging through old threads!). That thread also has link to NCHFP salsa acidification guidelines.

All in all, I think you're better off just trying Annie's.

You are trying to generalize from one recipe to another and that only leads to confusion and increased risk when playing with low-acid ingredients. So why? Just to end up with the right number of pints to fit a canner? That is never the goal.

So no, you cannot cut the acid in half. The original recipe calls for 1.25:10 ratio of vinegar to tomatoes. So how could you reduce that ratio to .625:10 and still be safe? You can't. Just because she left out 1.5 cups of hot peppers? That doesn't equate in either its effects on pH or on density.

You use the recipe as written, leaving out any low-acid ingredients you don't want, and then you add additional desired ingredients AFTER the jar is opened.

Dave

I'm trying to show how close what she wants to do is to Annie's and get her to try the approved recipe instead.

I suggested reducing the amount of low-acid ingredients in the Ball recipe (please note that by my calculations, the vinegar should not be reduced by much, if at all), so it would yield a little less, instead of doubling the tomatoes in the original recipe (to 20C instead of 10) since all else being equal (which might not be a good idea) it wouldn't likely fit in 1 batch anyway. And if she cuts the amount of low-acid ingredients in the original Ball recipe in half while leaving tomatoes alone, it's cutting 7.5C of onions/peppers, plus a small amount of garlic and cilantro.

But I repeat, going with a tested recipe that has a higher ratio of tomatoes to low acid veggie (if that's what she wants) is better than messing with the recipe. Calculations are for illustrative purposes only.

This post was edited by ajsmama on Thu, Sep 19, 13 at 15:58

Sheila - She is already using an approved recipe. One the family apparently likes and that already calls for more tomatoes than Annies Salsa does.

She doesn't want a different recipe. All she asked is how she can tweak the one she is already using. And she can do all her listed tweaks except for doubling the tomatoes.

Annie's has a ratio of 1:8 and the Ball has a ratio of 1.25:10 which is essentially the same. If she wants to try Annie's Salsa, fine. But you can't make valid safety modifications on the Ball recipe based on comparing it to Annie's Salsa recipe. It only adds to the confusion.

Dave

Thanks for all of the time you've spent making suggestions!

Ajsmama, my family prefers this recipe to Annie's. Since we also don't want hot peppers in our salsa and still consider it salsa, I'm guessing you like a different type of salsa than we do.

I feel very safe using Ball recipes, because, as I understand it, the company has a team of food scientists that verify the safety of every recipe that they publish. So it's definitely a tested and approved recipe.

Dave, this is ridiculous, but it never occurred to me to just add more tomatoes after we open the jar. What an easy fix! I feel pretty silly for not thinking of that. I actually love the suggestion, because I prefer the tomato to pepper/onion ratio as written. It's my husband who's tomato crazy. :)

I'm going to stick with the first four tweaks (without going crazy with cilantro) and just add more tomatoes before serving.

Have a good night!

I'm sorry if I confused things. It sounded like you (or actually your DH) wanted twice as many tomatoes as pepper/onions where the Ball recipe has slightly more (12.5C with the chiles vs 10C tomatoes). So I was trying to do the math on your "tweak" to figure out what you wanted to do and find a recipe that was similar (Annie's has 8C of tomatoes to 4.25C peppers/onions).

But if Annie's doesn't taste right to you, and you don't want to simply halve the onions/peppers(and maybe seasonings such as garlic, salt, etc.) and omit the chiles (and sounds like the hot sauce too) in the Ball recipe (I would not reduce the acid below 1C) , then adding tomatoes (and maybe more cilantro) upon opening may be the perfect solution for you.

Nope, the only major change to the recipe was that I wanted to use twenty cups of tomatoes instead of ten. I wasn't interested in trying a different recipe. I've already done that. So, I'll just add more tomatoes before serving. Easiest fix!