Technically speaking, no because you changed the pH by adding additional low-acid fresh vegetables. Never a wise move. ;) You changed a tested approved recipe into an untested one that only has the minimum 50:50 ratio of vinegar to water to begin with.

Practically speaking, IMO it is ok because it does have at least a 50:50 vinegar ratio in it and you say you only added 1 slice. I hope it was a ring slice and not a slab slice. ;)

But for future reference stick with the recipe and use only dried herbs and vegetable seasonings, not fresh, if you are going to mess with the recipe.

Dave

Dave,
should I just refridergate them and eat? how long would they be good in the fridge? i need to let them fermet a few weeks anyway to get good flavor? do that in the fridge?

and it was a slab..perhaps less than 25% of a pepper.

Well I can only tell you what I'd do if they were mine.

Since less than 24 hours old I'd open the jars, take out the pepper slab, add a bit of hot 50:50 vinegar/water brine to each jar to make up for the room removing the pepper creates (likely only a tablespoon or so), and reprocess them using new lids. That way there is no issue and they can go on the shelves as normal.

If they were more than 24 hours old then they'd go to the fridge.

But it is a borderline issue so basically it's your choice.

Dave

dave,
since i only did 3 jars as a little test (guess I failed!!). i'll just refridegrate them..can you please re-read my other questions about what to do with them if refrid is the option. I processed them yesterday..finished around 330pm.

Thank you very much! i really want to learn these.

so if i wanted to add more heat, i could have added more cayenne pepper or dried jalapenos? just not fresh...

how long would they be good in the fridge? i need to let them fermet a few weeks anyway to get good flavor? do that in the fridge?

3-4 weeks once opened. 3-4 months while still sealed. Yes, they can still marinate in the fridge. Just takes longer.

so if i wanted to add more heat, i could have added more cayenne pepper or dried jalapenos? just not fresh...

Yes, dried red pepper flakes, dried jalapenos or chili peppers (partially rehydrate them first in vinegar not water), chili powder, etc. Just go easy as they get stronger during shelf storage.

You can always add dried spices and seasonings and even dried vegetables if rehydrated in vinegar first, to taste, just not fresh.

OK?

Dave

Thanks Dave!
I'll let develop flavor in the fridge for a few weeks (or longer?) and then eat them up quickly. guess i'll be having alot of bloody marys! which makes my little experiment not a total waste.

But, aren't the BEANS in dilly beans already a low acid vegetable, being basically pickled in brine?

And isn't a jalapeno a small pepper, so a slice wouldn't introduce a different density-penetration issue? Dilly beans already have a garlic clove or two in them, don't they?

I'm having a hard time seeing how this could possibly be a problem. It's not the same as adding extra low-acid vegetables to, say, a tomato recipe where the amount of acid added has been carefuly calibrated.

Linda Lou, are you following this thread? Can you see a problem with one slice of jalapeno in a jar of dilly beans, and if so can you explain it to me? You know I like to know why!

Z

Zabby - before you get all bent out of shape please take the time to note the distinction I made in the original post of "technically" and "practically".

Of course the beans are already a low acid vegetable and yes they have a garlic clove which is also low-acid. That does not mean you can just add other low acid vegetables to them.

Yes it is a brine but it is also the minimum safe brine with no margin for error and so it is EXACTLYthe same as adding extra low-acid vegetables to, say, a tomato recipe where the amount of acid added has been carefuly calibrated.

No one said anything about density issues as there are none and jalapeno peppers come in varying sizes.

So as I said above, TECHNICALLY SPEAKING it shouldn't have been done (not to mention that safe alternatives are readily available). But PRACTICALLY SPEAKING it is probably fine.

Now take a deep breath and relax.

Dave

PS: oh and I also threw in a couple of "just my opinion" and "what I would do" for good measure too so you can feel free to do whatever you wish with your own Dilly Beans.

Dave, Zabby didn't seem particularly bent out of shape... she simply asked an honest question of one of the most knowledgable people on this forum --

On the other hand you did come off a big condescending, although I'm sure you didn't mean to be.

BTW, as I've read your posts in the past, I've wondered if you are a master canner? Or self taught, like me?

Kay

Kay - Zabby and I have a years-long running competition (I think she'd accept that word rather than battle) over canning techniques.

She regularly takes me to task on my conservative, safety-oriented responses and the use of the word "rules" rather than "guidelines" - a habit I am trying to break - and I razz her about her liberal free-thinking (what she calls her "cowboy") approach to canning.

But apologies to all especially Zabby as I sure didn't mean it to sound condescending but I can see how it might. I got carried away with the CAPS.

Dave

PS: no I'm not an MFP although I do live with one. ;) But not really self-taught either as along with my wife I have taken many, many hours of canning classes over the years, both casual and certified. We are fortunate that our state extension has excellent canning education programs.

Dave, many, many years ago my first editor on the newspaper broke me of the habit of throwing caps, bold face and italics around too freely. I learned pretty fast 'cause he could have fired me.

Kay

I'm kinda wondering the same thing as Zabby. The dilly beans uses a 50/50 vinegar water solution. And pickled peppers use a 50/50 vinegar water solution. So why can't you mix the 2 in the same jar?

Yeah and the Pickled Jalpenos instructions calls for 7 1/2 cups vinegar and 1 3/4 cups water and the Pickled Yellow Pepper Rings instructions calls for 5 cups of vinegar and 1 1/4 cups water and Pickled Hot Peppers calls for 5 cups of vinegar and 1 cup of water. So folks, what does all this tell us?

That you cannot safely generalize from one recipe to another.

But as always, you can add anything you want as long as you are comfortable with the level of risk involved. Or you can just stick with the recipe as it was tested, used dried herbs and spices to enhance flavor, and have no concerns.

Dave

I would be completely comfortable adding that jalapeno pepper slice to a jar of dilly beans, as mentioned it may not be technically "recommended" but that risk would be astronomically low with one piece of pepper in that 50/50 brine.

Now, some people want a zero risk experience, and that's fine. I tend to be a bit more relaxed and choose my risk levels at a bit higher bar, so like Zabby, I don't see that there's really a problem this time.

Annie

It's certainly true that Dave and I have had many variations on the argument of what constitutes "safe" in this forum over the years. And since forums like this are all about the discussion, I'm happy to continue having them for many years more (though I do feel sorry for other forum members, who must be bored to tears by us by now).

But I sure don't know anyone who appreciates being told to "take a deep breath" or being accused of "getting bent out of shape" in response to a totally reasonable query. From where I sit, I'm not the one getting unnecessarily excited about a non-existent problem.

The question asked was, in the subject line, whether the dilly beans were "still safe," and, in the text of the post, whether the addition of a single slice of jalapeno had "messed up" the acidity.

I don't, myself, see that these are questions that have a "technical" answer and a "practical" answer.

I don't think it even, technically, CHANGES the acidity, since we're pickling low-acid vegetables ANYWAY.

In any case, I'm more interested in trying to find a HELPFUL answer for this poster, which I imagine is one that indicates whether there is any good reason (by which I mean one backed up by science) NOT to simply put these delicious-sounding beans on the shelf, then open them and eat them when they're ready.

And all I'm saying is that, despite really trying hard, I can't think of one.

But I would, as always, be interested to hear the reasoning of anyone who has one.

And above all, rathdrumid, I hope you enjoy your dilly beans, and your canning adventures!

Zabby

the question is not how much vinegar and how much water is in other recipes. OP followed the BBB Dilly Bean Recipe (even added 5 mins for elevation)-- except she dropped in a 'slice' of jalapeno.
According to the FDA list (linked from NCHFP) string beans have a pH of 5.6. Pepper's pH ranges from 4.65 to 5.45. So even the highest pH (lowest acid) is still below the pH of beans.
It seems to me that replacing a green bean with a slice of pepper would lower the pH and raise the acidity level, albeit infinitesimally.

Oh, I know, we should never randomly change recipes and certainly should caution people new to canning not to do so, but really folks, aren't we straining at gnats here?

kay

Oh, I know, we should never randomly change recipes and certainly should caution people new to canning not to do so, but really folks, aren't we straining at gnats here?

Yeah, glad to hear you say that Kay. It is basically what I said in the original reply to the question. Everything was fine with both rathdrumid and myself, at that point. Things kind of slid downhill from there on out.

I figure it's best to let it drop as I doubt rathdrumid really wants all these emails. ;)

Dave

rathdrumid,

Here's what I would do, personally:

- Put the jars on the shelf.
- When I wanted to eat some dilly beans, open a jar.
- Eat the dilly beans. Savour the zing of the jalapeno!
- Be happy.

Cheers,

Zabby