Entirely aside from the safety issues, why would you want to expend energy (your own and the utilities) to can a product that's already canned?

You have canned tomatoes, canned tomato sauce and canned tomato paste. There's little merit in twice-canning a sauce that takes minimal effort to prepare.

If time is the issue (say serving after work when you're in a hurry) take 5 minutes to assemble it the night before while you're fixing dinner and let it simmer during the evening. Refrigerate and all you have to do is re-heat the next day.

Carol

I would agree with Carol. This is a cooking recipe, not a canning one and as is often discussed here, very few cooking recipes can be converted to safe canning recipes. I'm sorry I didn't realize from your other post on this that you were talking about a cooking recipe.

Both the oil and the butter would have to left out and there simply is no way to compute the canning time required.

However, as an alternative, it could easily be made ahead of time and frozen safely. I know you are eager to use your PC but it won't help you in this situation, sorry.

Dave

Carol, re: why -- to have on hand for quick mom's-not-home meals for hubby and son, who can just about boil water if you leave instructions. Honestly, it's the EASIEST (and to my thinking, least appealing) recipe you could find, but my husband and son have 'ruined' it (their description) every time they've tried to follow it. I know, it's stupid. But there you have it. For both of them, this sauce is the meaning of life.

Dave, yeah, I've always just frozen it. I'm trying to limit what goes into the freezer right now because I'm due to pick up half a cow soon and I'm not sure how much space I'm going to need in my freezer for that.

Hi Val,

Just my personal opinion, but if you leave out the oils and add a little citric acid, I personally would not hesitate to can that recipe. Just have your husband/son boil it for 10 minutes before serving.

TomNJ

Tom, thanks. I kind of feel the same way, but of course I don't want to take stupid risks. I wish there were some method of JUDGING a cooking recipe.

Or you know what would be great? A flexirecipe for tomato sauce: 10 pounds of tomatoes + 2 cups of (some combination of onions, celery, carrots, zucchini, peppers) + no more than 1 T minced garlic + no more than 1/4 c of dried herbs + salt + pepper + lemon juice (1T into pint jar, 2T into quart jar) = safe to PC in pints for 20 minutes or in quarts for 25 minutes at 10#. Does anyone know of such a beast?

Hi Val,

Botulin toxin, if formed, is rapidly destroyed at 176 F (NOT the spores, only the toxin!). So even in the worse case where the bacteria grows, boiling the sauce for 10 minutes before eating will make it safe.

Your recipe (minus the oils) starts with sterile acidified commercial tomato products and adds very little low acid ingredients, so adding some lemon juice or citric acid and processing in a BWB or PC would give me comfort.

I doubt you would find a flexible recipe as no one would want to take responsibility for it.

TomNJ

Well, it's a philosophical difference, but I would let them "ruin it" until they figure out no one's coming to the rescue. They won't starve if they miss a meal or end up "foraging."

I do think this is "cannable" but my gosh, the time and effort plus the lids, the water and the electricity or gas, it just goes against the grain.

Now I'm going to shut up because I've veered OT and because I'm sure in my own family I've also occasionally erred on the side of doing too much.

Carol

I wish there were some method of JUDGING a cooking recipe.

Don't we all! ;) But there isn't. Used to be you could just buy litmus paper and test the end product before canning. That killed some folks and made lots more very ill. Used to be you could boil anything for 10 min. before serving - now that has been increased to 20 mins. of HARD boil. Used to be many thought you could dump just about anything in a jar, slap on a lid, BWB for 10 mins. and store it on the shelf forever - unfortunately some still do that despite the illness and deaths that resulted over the years.

Now days, until one really learns to understand the chemistry involved, we do best to stick to and follow approved, tested recipes - there are hundreds of them. And we best remember that not everything can be safely canned no matter how badly we may want to do it. ;) Until then about all we can offer is that Dr. Elizabeth Andress at NCHFP has vetted some recipe issues for us in the past and is very helpful to us.

Like Carol and Tom said, sure leave out the oil and the butter and add the required acid and you can likely safely can this recipe. Process for how long? Can't say. Square freezer containers stack well and don't take up much room in the freezer. ;)

Dave

valereee: If they can't follow a simple recipe why don't you just buy canned sauce at the store? It's as cheap as .88 a can and very good!

While a ten-minute boiling does destroy botulinum toxin, there's always a chance of contamination while opening the jar, even if just from a tiny spray as the seal is broken, when air rushing in forces the product out. It only takes a few spores to make you sick, so I wouldn't count on the boiling method for a recipe I wasn't sure was safe.

Melissa

Hi Melissa,

I guess I don't understand your post. Spores do not make you sick, only the toxin. If you boil the contents of the jar for 10 minutes, the toxin will be destroyed and it will be safe to eat. In any case, Val's recipe, minus the oils and with acid added, isn't going to germinate any spores and produce toxin.

TomNJ

Well, it could, just because of the density of it. We have no way to take a cooking recipe, can it, and call it safe.
Even Elizabeth Andress will tell you the same thing. How do I know ? I had another MFP just email her and ask her the same thing about a sauce that used canned products....
So, unless you use a current, safety tested recipe, the safe advice is to freeze it.
The problem, as someone else said, about trying to trust an improperly canned food is cross contamination. What about the spoon, can opener, a drip of the food on the counter, on your clothes or apron, etc ? If you happen to get a hold of any of that, the result could still be deadly or cause paralysis. You can't see, taste, or smell botulism. I say, do things right to begin with and you won't have to worry about botulism.

Carol, believe me, I'm with you philosophically. But given that my husband is still working on whites vs. colors, I'm not holding my breath.

Greenhouser, the $.88 can at the store isn't Mama Finocchiaro's Tomato Gravy, that's why. When my MIL first gave me this recipe, I tried to 'improve' it. Fresh parsley, fresh garlic, fresh tomatoes, stock instead of water. My husband took one taste and said, "Well, it's really good. But it's not my mom's sauce."

Linda Lou, thanks! I probably wouldn't have bothered canning it anyway. (Like Carol says, it goes against the grain. Plus it's a lot of work for a product I don't personally even like.) I was just trying to figure out everything I could can rather than freezing, and the sauce occurred to me after I saw the info on canning soups at NCFHP.

Tom, you're right about toxin vs. spores, that was a "thinko". But it only takes a tiny bit of toxin to make you sick. There was one report from whoever counts botulism cases about a lady who opened a jar of carrots, dipped her finger in and tasted the liquid, then decided to throw out the carrots in case of botulism. The tiny taste was enough to make her sick...I think she died but I can't remember. So what I meant was, when you open the jar, a little splash onto your fingers or the counter could be enough to make you sick. See the link below to a fact sheet from the UPitt medical center on aerosolized botulinum toxin, which says "Animal models suggest that inhaling 0.7-0.9 µg of aerosolized botulinum toxin would be enough to kill a person weighing 154 lbs." That's not very much, so depending how friendly the sauce was to the spores, the concentration in the jar could be enough to produce a dangerous splash. I also found an article in JAMA that references botulinum toxin as the most poisonous substance known.

I take some risks for myself, like eating raw milk cheese and dishes made with undercooked eggs, but since Valereee has a family, I think the risk is too great. She could can a different sauce for her family to use when she's not home, and save Mama Finocchiaro's Tomato Gravy for when she's home.

Melissa

Here is a link that might be useful: botulism fact sheet