Marcia,
Isn't it wonderful to find such critters and know they are welcomed because you purposely don't use pesticides! I found a Tresa Sphinx cat chewing away on my penta yesterday. I left it there to chew away knowing it was going to find the dirt soon and turn into one of those pretty moths. They don't chew for that long and afterall you have to have the caterpillar before you can have the pretty flying critters.

Maybe I should bring it in and watch the process...
I've been enjoying the clear wing hummingbird moths, too. I wonder where they chewed away before gracing my garden with their tiny fluttering wings?
Meems

Here is a link that might be useful: Photos of the Hummingbird Moth

Meems, what an absolutely beautiful blog! I'm bookmarking it so I can go back later and read in more depth!! Fantastic pictures of the clearwing, too. In fact, fantastic pictures, period!! Thanks so much for sharing the link.

So, do you mean these guys make their cocoons in dirt? Do I need to put a container full in the butterfly cage with him? I've never watched the process with one of these guys, though I had a gorgeous tiger moth I "raised" once.

Marcia (who needs to go Googling, I reckon)

Marcia, I'm from the "old school" I guess, grew up on a farm and it was you against the bad guys to protect the good guys. I've mellowed some, but do not let caterpillars or grasshoppers eat my plants if I can help it. My chickens take care of properly disposing of them if I put them in their cage. Then I eat the chickens if they are alpha roosters or non producing hens.

I'm love your attitude, but have not eliminated the farmer out of my genes it seems :>)

bernie

If I were growing food for my table, I guess I might feel differently, Bernie. Though then again, I might just try to grow enough for all of us. But my garden is a wildlife garden. I plant especially for butterflies, moths, hummers, songbirds and other critters, and they are pretty much all welcome. They are as important to me as any plant I grow, and I deliberately attract them, so it wouldn't make any sense to kill them when they oblige me by showing up. *grin*

This big fat boy is going to provide me with a lovely Carolina sphinx moth who will enjoy my four o'clocks and other flowers each evening. I will look for him every time I take the dogs out at night.

I'm always amazed at all the "wildlife" one urban yard can shelter. Lately, we have had a pair of barred owls calling from the oaks over the house. A couple of nights ago, I was out with the dogs, calling back, and they were answering me. One finally flew up closer to take a look and then shut up real quick. (I reckon I didn't look enough like a rival owl for him to quarrel with.)

Anyway, different gardens for different purposes and different folks. I won't spray cats and other pests because they are the whole point for me. (And also because anything I spray on my garden is in my ground water two weeks later, and I don't really want to drink the stuff, either.) My only exceptions are fire ant mounds, and only when they get really bad, about once a year. I also hand pick and behead lubbers with reckless abandon, and everyone knows how I feel about Cuban treefrogs. Other than that, it's pretty much live and let live. And enjoy the spectacle.

Marcia

Marcia, that really is a big guy. I love the moths and butterflies and there are so many flying around my garden now.

Meems, I see you recently joined us, so I welcome you. I love your garden. I am like you and out side to play all year long. I love Fl and have been gardening here for 14 years. I say I was a native in another life. :o)
Happy gardening,
Kathy

Amazing fauna like this are why more people should garden. I spend hours in my garden just staring at the butterflies, tree frogs, skinks, etc. and every now and then something just comes as a total surprise and brightens your day. Congrats!

How cool is that? I love observing insects, etc.doing their thing = )

FYI - sweet potatoes aren't in the potato family (solanum?) but in the morning glory family(ipomea?).....

Thanks, Jax! You are so right!

Katkin, he's the biggest cat I've ever seen! I love him!

After googling around, I found out that they don't spin a cocoon like many moths do, but instead form a pupa which drops to the ground and burrows into the dirt. I guess I should put a container of soil in the cage under the stem he's on.

This is very interesting!

Marcia

I think it's great to find enjoyment in nature - even out of something most consider pests. It's your yard - your garden - your design. Simple pleasures are the best and most rewarding. Your garden should be a sanctuary for your spirit in whatever way that pleases you. That's what is so great about gardening.

I enjoy the squirrels, raccoons and possums. Most people don't. I've never had a negative experience with any of those animals - maybe they 'know' I'm a friend. LOL...

I am more on the page with Bernie/FlyingFish2. If I find the cats (usually on my tomato plants), I feed them to the lizards. I ignore the moths with a 'live n' let live'. But, my tomatoes are very important to me.

Now, I am concerned about the lack of Gulf Frits this year. I think it's due to the increase of hornets/wasps that I have. I have two Purple Passion Vines that are huge - and virtually intact. I should have tons of butterflies.

True, Carol...thanks for the reminder. But all the info I've read says they eat nightshade family almost exclusively (tomatoes, tobacco) and occasionally solanum (potato), so that's what was in my mind. I really do know sweet potatoes are related to morning glories...my Blackie is covered in pink "glories" every spring. But somehow, this guy must not have read the books, because he's eating the heck out of the sweet potato vine. Oh, I also read somewhere they will eat pentas???

Marcia

Marcia,
Thank you. From what I've researched it seems they do make their transformation in the dirt. I know, I was surprised to read that, too. But when I find one of these guys hanging around I like to know what to expect and I always learn something new. I've attached a link that has some interesting information about the hummingbird moths in general ... maybe you will find some good information there.

In light of the follow-ups I should note here that in my veggie garden it is my aim to master the art of companion planting. Well, "master" is probably a little far-fetched... but I am trying to learn how to do it well. My hope is to attract as many beneficial insects as possible so they will in turn take care of the "enemies" of the veggie plants. Florida is a particularly challenging climate to achieve this method but it is worth giving it my best shot to not use any pesticides. I DO hunt down and be-head without reservation grasshoppers (especially lubbers). No mercy on those voracious chewers... it's too bad they don't turn into a butterfly ... I'd surely let them do their damage if so.
Oh, I also read somewhere they will eat pentas???
Two notes: 1) That is where my Tresa Cat was found yesterday... on a red penta with half the plant missing from being chewed away at that point. 2)I see the clearwings the most on pentas at dusk. Although during the day they were on the salvia coccinea.

Kathy,
Thank you for the welcome. I'm just now feeling like I'm getting the hang of this forum format. After blogging for the last two years it is very fun to be here and enjoy this type of garden chat. I'm learning so much here with 'real Florida' gardeners. To have a successful Florida garden I've found it takes all 12 months of staying very diligent. But I love it and am so happy we get to be outdoors every day of the year if we want to. (I'm supposed to be getting my house cleaned today-- have to make myself stay out of the garden to get it done. But now I've found this forum and it seems if I'm not gardening I'm 'talking' about it)! Obsessions aren't easy to control. LOL

Here is a link that might be useful: hummingbird moths info

manature,you have a monster there.
How much does he weight?
He has such a preety color.
Felix

Hi,Felix! Haven't had a chance to chat with you in awhile, but I will try to fix that later tonight with a "catch-up" email.

Meems, I like your approach! And thanks for the link. I will be checking it out soon. I had a lovely Tersa Sphinx moth not so long ago, but have never seen the caterpillar. I should check my pentas, though it doesn't look like anything is eating them.

SPF, I haven't seen many frits this year, either. Just a couple now and then. I figured it was because I wasn't growing any passionvine this year, but maybe not?

Marcia

But now I've found this forum and it seems if I'm not gardening I'm 'talking' about it)! Obsessions aren't easy to control. LOL

Gottcha! Welcome to our little addiction Meems ;-)

Marcia,

What a nice giant to have as a guest! And to think how beautiful it will be soon!

Meems,

Welcome. What a nice blog you have!

The only sphinx I've had this year so far has been a Nessus. No cats noted but I've had quite a few butterflies and moths around. Only a few frits and they haven't stayed long. But each day brings something different, so we'll just keep enjoying what we have!

wt

Gottcha! Welcome to our little addiction Meems ;-)
Step. Away. From. The. Computer.
Turned it off and finally got the house cleaned, dinner cooked, and grandbaby to bed. Here I am again. Obsessed. Ha.

Dubyatee,
Thank you for the welcome. I had a firestorm of black swallowtail cats on my carrots and parsley this year. ">

Well, no wonder we're all seeing less Gulf Frits! They're all in Meems' garden!

wt

I think you've got it, WT. Meems, you stop hogging all those gulf frits and zebras, y'hear!!! We want our share, too! *grin* I have had a few gulf frits here and there, but almost NO zebras this year. Again, I don't have any host plants currently, but usually the butterflies will nectar in the flower garden, anyway.

Mostly, I've had lots and lots of eastern black swallowtails and monarchs, with a smattering of sulphurs, giant swallowtails, and some gold rims.

I brought in about 35 or 40 eastern blacks to raise inside, and released quite a few a couple of months ago. About 25 or so chrysalises didn't eclose with the first batch, but are giving me one swallowtail every 10 days or so now. Some of them have been in there for nearly 2 months. And a couple might even overwinter, as one did last year.

The monarchs have never done that for me. The nearly always eclose within 2 weeks of forming the chrysalis. But these EBS's just take their time and appear whenever they are ready. Plus, I noticed that some of them form a green chyrsalis and some a brown. But that doesn't seem to have any bearing on whether they stay in there 2 weeks, or 2 months.

Always something new to learn!

Marcia

BTW, Meems...great photos. I really LOVE the "firestorm" of swallowtail cats. They are SO pretty, aren't they? It makes me happy all over to find a bunch of pretty cats, happily munching on my fennel or parsley.

Thanks for sharing those!

Marcia

I saw today that my hornworm had curled up and hidden under the damp roots of the sweet potato vine that I put in the butterfly cage with him. So I got a container of soil and slid it underneath him, and an hour later, he is completely burrowed in. Now for the waiting. Anyone know how long it will be before my sphinx moth emerges?

Marcia (loving watching this process)

Congrats on your beautiful cat, Marcia! He IS enormous.

Speaking of cats, the ones I had posted pics of a couple weeks back (black swallows, I believe) managed to eat my dutchman's pipe almost to the ground. Came back from a week away and...whoa nelly!! I also had a plethora o' parsley diners, though I can never seem to find the cocoons or pupas.

This year has been so lushly lepidopterous even hubby noticed!

Marcia,
It is exciting you are getting to see this process unfold before your very eyes. You are doing something I've wanted to do but not taken the time to actually do it. It looks like you have about a 2 week wait for your moth to emerge. Here is a list of points I snagged off the Internet site I sent you the link to:

How to rear these hummingbird moth caterpillars:

*don't keep them in a cold room or too cool a house - use the porch
*you will need to feed them from whatever larval plant you find them on
*any container will do but I like a transparent container
you probably don't need a screen or ventilated lid until they pupate and you only need a lid if you want a chance to see the emerging moths before they fly away
*add leaves from larval plant daily for the caterpillars
*remove spent leaves or withered ones and keep fresh ones available
*damp paper towels will provide moisture - keep them moist - remove them when they become soiled
*clean away waste daily - these caterpillars produce a lot of waste (called frass)
*once they are maturing, add several inches of dirt to container
*these caterpillars pupate underground
*obviously, stop adding leaves once they dig in
*check the box daily but don't expect moths for two weeks or so
After releasing them, my moths have usually not flown away for 12 hours or so but the time can vary. I take a few photographs and then let the moths crawl out of the container and onto the leaves of their larval plants.

Hope that information gives you some tips you didn't already know.
Meems

Thanks for the additional info, Meems. I've been raising and releasing various butterflies for several years now, and enjoy it very much. (Two summers ago, I raised over 75 monarchs, 35 gulf frits, and a few other assorted ones.) But this is the first hornworm I've ever found, and I'm very intrigued by it. It is such a different process from most of the butterflies, and even the one tiger moth I raised, which spun a cocoon.

Nature, in its infinite variety! Ya gotta love it!

Marcia

Decided to move my next post over here rather than stepping on Grizzy's post.

I love Cats too, just not on my tomatoes. I wonder if planting certain flowers in the garden will keep them off the veggies, chime in anyone....

Tom

Good approach, Tom. Hope you can find something that will help you save your tomatoes without causing other unintentional problems. I'll betcha there's a way. Of course, hornworms are so huge, I would think hand picking them wouldn't be quite so hard as it would be with smaller cats, maybe?

Marcia

Tom
In Arizona I had ruellia, hibiscus and other flowering plants in the same area where I had the tomatoes.
The cats that I saw in the ruellia were like from another planet.lol
Of course, in this topic I am not so knowledgeable like Marcia is, so I can not explain to you more.
Plants can get big, I had them around the pool area, I am including the link, you probably know this plant already. I had the purple one.
Silvia

Here is a link that might be useful: ruellia

Silvia, do you think the ruellia helped keep the caterpillars off of your tomatoes? I grow them, too, and love them. (Before anyone gets crazy about them, the ruellia I grow is the STERILE hybrid from Home Depot, clearly marked as non-invasive. It does NOT seed.)

I'm just curious as to whether or not companion plantings of ruellia are helpful in that regard.

Marcia

BTW, my hornworm was OUT of the dirt this morning, curled up under the sweet potato vines again. There was a hole going INTO the container of dirt, and another one coming OUT of it. I wonder if they sleep in the dirt at night for awhile before they pupate? I put more sweet potato leaves in there this morning, in case he really wasn't finished eating and growing. (Though if he gets much larger, I will have to build him a KENNEL!)

Marcia

Marcia, I don't know for sure if the ruellia kept the tomatoes without cats. But it sure worked for me, I only saw them on those plants. I had 3 big plants and did not seed or anything. Actually, the lantanas that I had were more of a trouble for me. Hibiscus were also good for the hummingbirds. And inside the raised tomato garden, I had more flowers, mostly annuals, herbs. And I always had borage.

Silvia

Ooooh, borage!! My heart sings when I see borage!! I don't know why, but that is just the most ROMANTIC looking plant to me...very Victorian and sweet! Judy gave me some small seedlings in the spring, but they didn't make it. The heat and drought here took them down, like so many other things in the yard. I swear, if it's not one thing, it's another. Hard freezes, not enough rain, too MUCH rain, too much heat, and on and on. Then, just when you think you've conquered it all, a steeenkin' little sausagey dog goes out and digs holes halfway to China right in the middle of the coleus bed! My dogs ARE precious, of course...but I'm just sayin'................

*mumble, grumble, moan, groan*

Those dogs are just Vet Bills On Legs!

*grin*

Marcia

Tom,
I'm wondering if you know what kind of cats have been on your tomatoes? If cats get on my tomatoes I have to do something about that. If its a big one that I know is from a butterfly they are easy enough to remove and transplant to a perennial elsewhere in the garden.

One of the things I'm trying to do in my veggie garden is add many different flowers and herbs as companions to the veggies. This spring I was able to increase the size of my veggie garden so at that time concentrated on adding lots of flowers. It was a buzz of activity at its peak. So many great insects singing from plant to plant. Turns out I had less problems with aphids and worms on my tomatoes, too. I'm no expert in this area but I'm learning all I can as I believe it is a superior route over pesticides.

I can tell you I didn't put any Ruellia around my veggies. I do have some (elsewhere)but wouldn't ever plant it again. Not because I don't like the way it looks... I just don't like the way it runs under the ground to make more plants where I don't want them.

Marcia,
You have nurtured a whole lot of cats to transformation. I really must learn how to do that. My grandkids would love to 'see' the transformation. Interesting developments with your big guy burrowing in the dirt then returning for more food. Keep us updated - we will continue to enjoy this journey with you.

Marcia and Silvia,
From what I've read borage is a wonderful companion plant for the veggie garden. Has either of you heard of anyone being successful with it here in Florida?
Meems

Here is a link that might be useful: Posts from my blog on companion planting

Marcia
I plant borage straight in the spot that I want them to grow, in my experience they don't transplant well.

Borage on the back of the first bed

{{gwi:119143}}

Marcia, remember the carrot cake with borage flowers?

Marcia, at least your little dog don't brand label the seminole like Pinocchio does.lol

Silvia

Silvia, nahhh...he just UPROOTS the entire plant and leaves it dying in the sun!!! Ack!!!

Meems, Silvia has answered your borage question for ya. (Great pictures, Silvia).Also, Judy (atreelady) has grown it and had lovely big plants all spring and early summer. Don't know if they are still hanging in there or not.

Also, Meems, you may have missed my comments on ruellia. It is beautiful, it is hardy, it is totally drought and heat resistant, and it does NOT have to spread. Home Depot sells a completely sterile one that grows 4 feet tall or so, just like the "regular" ones, and they do not seed, and they do not spread by long runners. The clump will increase very slightly in size over a long time, but nothing more than a daylily, say. It is one of my favorite plants and my hummers and butterflies love it. I would never be without it.

Home Depot is the ONLY place I've seen selling the ones marked "Florida Friendly, Sterile and Non-invasive."

Raising the caterpillars is easy and fun. The hardest part is not running out of FOOD. And if you don't know this, caterpillars are host specific critters. In other words, if you move a caterpillar to a plant that isn't the host plant, it will just do its best to get back to the plant that IS the host. They won't eat anything that isn't one of their host plants. Now if you can move them from a plant you want to save to one that is RELATED and included on their host list, then you are fine. But otherwise, they will probably just die anyway, if they can't make it back to the original plant.

OH, yes, Silvia! I remember that beautiful cake!! Lovely little blossoms. You folks are SOME GOOD COOKS at your house!!

Marcia

...caterpillars are host specific critters.

Well, alrighty then. All I need is a flower in the nightshade family that isn't a tomato ;-)

Marcia,
I am purposing to learn more and more about hosts and nectar plants and adding them as I can to my gardens. I am increasingly expecting more out of what I purchase... like seeking out host specific plants for specific butterflies. It's an added attractor when it appeals to the birds, too. Those cats won't tolerate being moved around to something they don't eat... they are smart little critters aren't they? I'm always amazed at how they find their host, lay their eggs and then know to stay there and eat it.

Re: Ruellia... Is the one you have a lower growing type? I've seen those and did hear they aren't invasive. Or are you referring to a look alike to the tall ones? If so, I admit I'm not familiar with a sterile one. Interesting though. Skippers seem to love the invasive type I have.

BTW, I checked on my Tersa cat yesterday and today... more of that red penta is chewed up but no sight of the cat. I wonder if it has 'gone underground' already???

Silvia,
Carrot cake is my favorite... those borage flowers on it are adorable.
Meems

Meems, the sterile ruellias look exactly like the tall Mexican petunias you've seen for years. Usually around 3 to 4 feet tall. Gorgeous. Just sterile. Here is the tag you look for:

I post about these a couple times a year because so many people hate the invasiveness of the old ones. But if you buy this label, you will NOT have a problem.

BTW, the short ones ("Katie" and the like) are not sterile, and while they say they spread less than the tall ones, I don't believe it. I find them just as obnoxious.

The only ones for me are these sterile Purple Showers. And the butterflies, skippers, and hummers don't know the difference, as far as I can tell.

Hope this helps!

Marcia

Marcia

Thank you Meems

Marcia, that is the same ruellia that I had in Arizona. When we moved there, we were also new and did not know anything about what to plant there.
We hired the "professionals" to do the design with plants that would take the Arizona heat and were not invasive. And they were not cheap!
From all the plants they put, I was happy with most of them. But after 10 years, I took the lantanas because they were taking over.
Silvia

Marcia,
Thank you for going to the trouble of scanning that tag. Very helpful. Now I realize I would never have noticed that "non-invasive sterile tag" because I haven't even let myself look in the direction of mexican petunias in years. Thank you so much for pointing that out. I might just have to give those a look-see next time I'm at HD.
Meems

You're welcome, Meems. They are so trouble free, tough and hardy, and pretty that it is a shame that more folks don't realize sterile ones are now available. They are true workhorses, and non-stop bloomers. Hope you can find them at your nearest Home Depot. The actual trademark is Florida Friendly Plants, so if your HD doesn't carry them, I'll bet you can call or google them to find the nearest retailer that does.

Marcia

UH OH, my 3.5 month old rooster has discovered how tasty these hummingbird moths must taste. He has nabbed several that I saw. They were working the 4 O'clocks when he captured them. Saw at least 3 more yesterday at sunset , so sure he will get some more, sorry Marcia but nature can be cruel!
bernie