One half cup canning salt in one gal of water is a good place to start. Ken's method is by taste only. Do a taste test starting with half the salt of the above ratio and work your way up to experience what Ken is talking about in the exerpt below.

This is an exerpt from one of Ken's previous posts;

"I make a big half gallon jar of salt brine, and sometimes even use a dill pickle mix from Ball or Mrs. Wages. After mixing with just water, I taste the brine to see if its too salty or not salty enough, as I don't actually measure anything. In any event, if its too salty, you will notice this by its bitter, overly salty taste. If its not salty enough, it lacks 'character', and seems to taste a bit bland. I add enough of salt or the pickle mix so that when I taste this brine at room temperature, its almost sweet tasting (my grandmother taught me that). You usually find its just right once your taste buds get confused and seem to make your mouth water, and swing between salty and sweet."

We are very lucky to have people like Ken to provide such detail.

Sorry, I will repeat the same info again, maybe for the umpteenth time. Alton Brown, who has a TV show on the FOOD CHANNEL has made simple, slightly fermented pickles. The measurements he used again, are:

5.5 OUNCES (FIVE AN ONE HALF OUNCES) OF PICKLING SALT that has been WEIGHED, NOT measured in a cup.
The PICKLING SALT is dissolved into ONE GALLON OF ROOM TEMPERATURE, CLEAN, CLEAR, WATER.

Again, I have to state here, that this above info is ONLY from his GOOD EATS TV show on CABLE TV. I have not used that ACTUAL measurement of salt (cant be sure, due to making so many batches by taste alone), or the amount of water needed. I simply tell people to TASTE the brine (thats the salt and water liquid you just TOTALLY dissolved together) to see if it has a somewhat SWEET and MOUTH WATERING AFTER taste on the tongue and mouth. If it appears to be bitter, it may be too much salt, so add a little water a cup at a time, in EACH TASTE SAMPLE. You may have to do this FIFTY times to get it right. If its slightly salty, but tastes bland, its needing more salt, and after TASTING A SAMPLE add a tablespoon of pickling salt to bring up the salt level. Always make sure the brine (thats the water and salt mixture you are now making) has dissolved ALL the salt and is clear looking again, and NOT cloudy. If these above measurements prove to be suitable for YOUR taste buds and mouth, and there is no need to add or adjust the taste, you should be just fine. Keep in mind that even if the salt brine is a bit strong, but not quite as bitter as you may expect, that too can be the starting point. FRESH PICKLING Cukes initially contain no salt, so will absorb SOME of the salt in brine IMMEDIATELY after they are placed in it. CUT BOTH END TIPS OFF EVERY RINSED CUKE. I cannot make this part of the brine making procss any easier to expain than what is stated above, as well as in the numerous and other recent threads.

Now, for the horribly confusing part!! The salt is just that salt. I like using PART of a dill pickle mix from Ball or Mrs. Wages. Most of these are mixes are just SALT and extracts and herbs. AVOID ANY THAT CONTAIN SUGAR AS 1 or 2 ingredients. With these dill pickle mix packets, I have the ability to inprove, and increase the dill taste/flavor. Just adding LOTS of fresh dill weed, and even FRESH dill seed heads will simply not give me that very BOLD flavor ai always want. Also, GARLIC is essential too, so cut several cloves into small chunks. Once the pickles are all gone, the garlic makes for a nice delicacy for afterwards. You an also add a couple of whole peppercorns, mustard seeds, celery seed, sugar, but all that will fog up the true flavor of half sour pickle

.

I do hope that my simple, plain english is understood now, but I am trying really hard to not get frustrated by a new post about not seeing this info before. It took me all of 2 seconds to locate this years original posts, that were just published on 7/6/08. Who knows how many posts from last year. If its a private email I get, I also copy and PASTE these messages right back into the same subject and forum to allow everyone the benefit of being able to read its very basic ingredients. This note, took me almost 20 minutes to do, and thats a LOT of my work which is just taking the rest of my daily chores much longer. I am not one to carefully read word for word, but do try to be as crystal clear as possible when it comes to being detailed and as accurate as humanly possible. As mentioned in the previous thread, this technique was TAUGHT me from my Polsh Grandmother, who made batches almost every day through the summer months, and they were not spoiled even after 3 weeks at room temp, but did get quite scummy, and if my Polish grandfather was not around as much when they has a full gallon jars of these..

Sorry for being so harsh, but its time I jumped on that SEARCH soapbox again, no matter how bad it is to search..

Here is a link that might be useful: More elaborate info on this same suibject..

Hi Lisa-Regina, I see this is your first year on Garden Web, welcome!

As you point out, in most discussions Ken refers to the tasting method, but this is hard for a newbie to recognize. Sure, you might think you're getting a sweet-not-bitter-not-salty taste, but when it comes to food safety you want to know for sure.

You might try using the Alton Brown recipe Ken posted. I've never used that one, but Alton is definitely concerned with food safety.

Below is the recipe from the Joy of Pickling. I read online once that you can make half sours either by starting full sours and halting the fermentation early, or by using a different ratio with a little less salt. I don't know whether that's true. I have used this recipe and liked it. I asked about it on the forum and everyone thought it was ok because the Joy of Pickling is a reputable book.

Lisa, sorry you hit on an apparent soapbox topic, but please don't let that scare you away from asking the specific questions you have after searching. Ken, it sounds like Lisa has been reading the half sour discussions but couldn't find the exact answer she was looking for. There are plenty of us on here to help answer if you don't want to repeat yourself.

Hope this helps. Let us know how it goes, ok?

Melissa

HALF-SOUR PICKLES, BY THE QUART

1/4 teaspoon black peppercorns, crushed
1/4 teaspoon coriander seeds, crushed
1 bay leaf
1 garlic clove, chopped
1 quart pickling cucumbers (3-5 inches)
1 dill weed
1 chili pepper, slit lengthwise, optional
1 1/2 tablespoons pickling salt, that is
3 cups water

Put the peppercorns, coriander, bay, and garlic into a quart jar.

Gently wash the cucumbers, and remove the blossom ends. Pack the jar with the cucumbers, adding the dill head and chile pepper. Add the salt to the water, and pour the brine over the cucumbers, leaving 1 1/2 inches head space.

Push a quart freezer bag into the mouth of the jar, and pour the remaining brine into the bag. Seal the bag. Keep the jar at room temperature, with a dish underneath if the seeping brine might do some damage otherwise.
Within 3 days you should see tiny bubbles rising in the jar; this means that fermentation has begun. If scum forms on top of the brine, skim it off daily, and rinse off the brine bag. If so much brine bubbles out that the pickles aren't well covered, add some more brine made in the same proportion of salt to water.

The pickles should be ready within a week, when they taste sour and when the tiny bubbles have stopped rising. Skim off any scum at the top of the jar, cap the jar, and store the pickles in the refrigerator for about 3 days, after which time they should be olive-green throughout. They are best eaten within about 3 weeks.

Makes 1 quart
Source: The Joy of Pickling: 200 Flavor-Packed Recipes for All Kinds of Produce from Garden or Market (Paperback)
by Linda Ziedrich

I think sometimes those of us who have grown up in the "canning tradition" find it difficult to explain in terms a novice can understand. We think we're quite clear, but for those new to such things as pickling, that isn't necessarily the case.

Lisa, I also use Joy of Pickling. It's a lovely book and I feel the recipes can be trusted. Melissa, thanks for posting her recipe. It's a great resource to have on Harvest.

It would be very easy to substitute the seasonings Ken mentioned in lieu of those in the Ziedrich recipe to achieve a similar result. Or, since her recipe makes pickles by the quart, you might like to try different seasonings in different quarts. (Just keep good notes on which jars have which seasonings, LOL.)

Welcome to the Forum, Lisa. Please feel free to continue to ask questions, especially if a search doesn't yield the information you need.

Carol

With refrgeration ONLY and the fact it has nothing but water and salt, its quite safe. It simply cannot be canned or stored at room temps as they will progressivly ferment more and also soften, thej scum, then mold. Nothing like that occurs even after a full year of storage of these half sours in my fridge. The cover is just a plain canng lid, held on by a pastic cap, so it doesn't fall off. For centuries these are the way of life for most people who can make pickles. Its just the last 60 years or so, that we have been abale to get a more impoved texture by simple refrigeration. BTW, if your fridge is NOT set below or at 36-37 degrees, its too warm. 32 is freezing, but even for that, many fridges today have circulating fans inside that have good cooling all around each shelf. My stuff in the fridge rairly spoils, and even my high melting point minced cheddar is still not a speck of any mold, thats over a year now! Today, a half sour pickle is as safe as any salad greens, if they were all grown in your your own back yard. My greens are picked every few days and I wish I could eat them faster. Still waiting for cukes!

It might be safer to hedge your bets by storing fermented pickles in quart jars rather than larger containers. Unlike Ken, I did have some yeast grow on the top of one of my jars (the one that I had been eating from, and therefore opening frequently). My refrigerator was the right temperature, but my house was old and probably had more ambient mold. Not having central AC would cause a similar elevated risk, since a less "sealed" house (open windows, etc) would allow more wild mold and yeast to float in.

Anyway, I was glad that I had multiple quart jars so only some of the pickles had yeast in the jar. As soon as I noticed the yeast growing (white stuff on top), I rinsed them and ate them that day. Yum.

Melissa

Thanks to all who have helped me to find the answer to my question, I really appreciate it. Melva02 you are right I am fairly new to this garden forum thing and canning too. I have never canned pickles before in my life or even tomatoes for that matter. Guess you could say I'm a new born in this area. Ken hurt my feelings because he got upset with me for having to answer this question once again. I wasn't aware that he had answered it before, the only thing that I read was to taste the brine until you think it is right. I don't know what right is since I've never done it before. I don't want to get ill or make someone else ill by not doing it correctly. Since I am new I need precise instructions and measurements first, before venturing off on my own. I guess you could say that I am a little bit intimidated when it comes to canning. I want to try and learn though. I know this sounds stupid, but what is a soapbox topic? I really honestly don't know what that means or how to get around on this website very well. Ken probably did answer my question for someone else before, I just couldn't find it. Sorry Ken for upsetting you and taking time out of your schedule to repeat the answer, I really just couldn't find the indepth answer I was looking for. Thanks again to all who replied and helped me to find the answers that I was seeking. .......Lisa

The term soapbox comes from the custom of a street preacher or anyone who wishes to speak on a topic of concern taking a soapbox (or any other wooden crate) into the public square, standing on it and delivering his speech. Generally it's an impromptu harangue.

So there's been some discussion on this forum about the importance of using the search engine before asking questions. Thus, Ken's its time I jumped on that SEARCH soapbox again.

You asked the question. Ken chose to spend time responding. It's a purely voluntary endeavor.

I hope you stick with canning. I know it can be intimidating, but many members who began here as novices now have several successful seasons under their belts.

I've posted a link to a free online course offered by the NCHFP (National Center for Home Food Preservation). It's self-paced and a good way to familiarize yourself with basic preservation principles. Just scroll down the page and you'll find it. The same site also has several pages on pickles. Even if you don't use their recipes, you can learn important fundamentals.

A few reminders about any of these pickle recipes:

1) Use canning and pickling salt. It's a plain salt (no additives) and the right weight for accurate measure.

2) Use soft water.

3) Use the very freshest cucumbers. No more than 24 hours should elapse between picking and pickling.

4) Clean cucumbers thoroughly but gently. Don't break the skin.

5) Trim off the blossom end. (I trim off both ends about 1/16 inch.) The blossom end contains enzymes that soften the pickles so it needs to be removed.

That's enough to start with. Check the link and let us know when you're ready to move on but have things you're not sure about.

Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: Preserving Food at Home: A Self Study

Thanks for that link Carol!

I am NOT upset, simply over used, overtaxed, and overlooked, when it comes to my honest, and factual writings about something I have been doing for very ANY years now, with ABSOLUTELY NO SAFETY ISSUES. If you have even the SLIGHTEST DOUBT about safety of these half sours, then PLEASE do not even attempt this method, or worse, do NO home canning!!!! Doing so, will only frust reate you and I even more. Maybe in 5-10+ or more years, after you have many many successful pickle cannings, you can, then you can consider these fool proof, no fail and being safe are easy to understand with detailed instructions. Unless I am in your kitchen, hovering around you constantly, I cannot help 'guide' you or anyone else any further. Many here in the HARVEST forum have not seen, tasted, or made ANY these. But when they were made, centuries ago, they had no way to keep them cold, so spoilage, scum, and mold WAS a big issue. These surface scum/mold formations are not usually IN the salt water based brine, just at the SURFACE. They need to be rinsed off and wiped off the scum as necessary and will not usually taint any salt brined cuke. A tiny taste can tell you they are still good or bad. Simply put. Because I have posted virtuallay the same exact info, for the last 3 years, its a bit of a chore to retype over an over. Maybe I should SEARCH here for all my initial posts and followup posts about this and combine them all into one BIG HUGE post. If so, it would soon bore many people, even those who have no idea how to can, preserve, make brines, pickes, and all the rest of the FUN stuff possible to a COME PRESERVER/CANNER/HOBBIST. Obviously every one has eyes, ears, and usually a taste bud or two, so determining if the half sour was spoiled, would be VERY OBVIOUS to anytone who has no idea about a possible formation on the surface of a salt/water liquid. Unless your using OCEAN water, these are quiet safe, and can be taken up to the full fermentation., by simply letting them ferment longer Even for that, a fully fermeted cuke, in the SAME EXACT BRINE (salt and water ratio EXACTLY THE SAME!!!) the fully fermented ones could still mold more, and become much softer after a few months, with, or without any careful handling once in a big pickle jar. I do insist on cutting the end tips off BOTH ends of the cukes, as this also helps to get them to absorb enough of the brine 'characteristics' in a much shorter time. After making and eating maybe a 10,000+ pickles all made like these, I have never heard, or seen any recoreded info regarding their safety.

A final comment to do a 'taste test' to fill a drinking glass half way with water. Add a bit of salt, maybe 1/4 teaspoon, mix until dissolved, then LIGHTLY sip a tiny bit of the brine on the tongue. If its salty tasting, it MIGHT also have enough of the combination (again, just salt and water!) to proceed. Then, you simply calculate the amount of pickling salt to water you used, and multiply. If its salty, but doesn't leave much of an 'impression' in your mouth (watery mouth??), then add a bit more pickling salt, dissolve well, and taste test again. Always write down the proportions (ratios). If the second attempt is also not as expected, add a third small amount SALT ONLY then more tatse tests. Eventually your mouth will encounter a very 'bitter' after taste and is a very good indication that its over salty. If so, add a bit of water to bring that level down slightly. AGAIN TASTE EACH TIME. I would expect that anyone who follows these EXACT, EASY, PRECISE adjustments can eventually be able to make almost this same thing without a single meauring device used.

I will reiterate- If you do NOT know how to can, PLEASE, do not beg for more info, or unecessarily accusing me of insulting you. Its very lengthy now and quite boring for me to continually reassure, explain,repeat, and create the same method used for many centries. The ease at which this salt brine is created and made, it doesn't even need anything but plain old rooom temp water, and a dose of pickling salt. Horrors upon horrors if the pickle you taste a week later lacks and pickle character, or is way too salty for you, it can also be 'readjusted' before the 5 days are done. If its too salty, what do you do?? Well thats up to our brain and common reasoning. It snow up to your sense of reason and all the finite details I have provided here in an atempt to get people (new or otherwise) to LEARN how to make a simple brine. Keep in mid, nearly every single CURED meat is made in a brine, based on the SAME factors, salt and water!!

Lastlty, if you hate salty thing and salty foods, be aware that this is NOT for anyone on a salt free diet. THE SEARCH FEATURE HERE ON THESE FORUMS IS NOT VERY ACCURATE, BUT WILL STILL BRING UP WAY TOO MUCH INFO THAT YOU WOULD EVER READ ABOUT A SINGLE TOPIC! 'Precise instrctions' are in found in books and web sites, and unless your making a commercial food under commercailly designed and engineered equipment, its not really something that is necessary to deal with for a simple home canning. No one really taught me, no internet back then, no nothing, even for any books to otherwise help guide me. I had my share of immediate failures, and successes, and the ONLY thing I was taught (by grandmother) was that 'infamous' salt brine combo. Without it, every other item I canned came from my head, this web site, and from the many books my mom and dad had collected for well over 50 years. These old books today are relics and mostly unsafe, but still nice to refer to when a simple ingredient is used to add a specific taste or charateristic to a home canned food.

Using the SEARCH FEATURE here, BEFORE posting a question, will help ease tension very well. The search can contain a simple 'half sour' as the key words. Everyone I know has used a 'search' from someplace to locate info.

LONG WINDED YES!! Running on empty now..!!

I have debated posting this and have decided to go ahead because I think it has broader applications. Also because, as my mom would say, "There's an elephant standing in the middle of the room." So I step up on the soapbox to get a better look at the elephant and begin...

In a way, some of us are food preservation children and others of us are parents. I think most of us would agree that Linda Lou, Ken, Readinglady and a few others fall into the parent column. Knowing the importance of safety and quality these "parents" take their roles very seriously. And, like all parents and children, we are human with all the strengths and weaknesses that go with being human.

I suspect that any of us who have had children, or have taken care of children, know about that moment when things build up and an innocently asked "why", "how come..." or the classic "Are we there yet?" can be incredibly exasperating. Sometimes we're able to take that deep breath and answer in a carefully controlled tone and sometimes we get snappish. Often the snapping has far less to do with the individual asking the question than it does a series of "behind the scenes" factors we may know nothing about. None the less, a hurt is done.

I value Ken's contributions to this board and understand and accept his "human-ness" as a person. I enjoy his posts, find them informative and frequently chuckle at his dry (and sometimes I suspect unintended) wit. I also firmly believe that Lisa-Regina is valuable and her "human-ness" as a person is equally deserving of understanding and acceptance. I look forward to reading posts from my new "sibling" and learning from her experiences and questions.

And while it really is none of my business, it is my hope that there will be some further, perhaps private, communication between them such that both parties may continue posting in the spirit of mutual comfort, dignity and understanding we all strive to achieve.

Lastly, about that elephant... as I step down from the box I realize there is a certain grace to be found in its awkwardness. Much like life itself.

..............APPLAUSE................

Well said, whynotmi!

Deanna

Quick! Someone let the elephant out! (((((SILLY GRIN))))

Maybe someone can clarify a specific question that I have. In Claussen pickles (which are supposed to be these half sour ones I believe), they have calcium chloride as an ingredient, which is also known as pickle crisp.

Ken does not recommend this in his method, and I have not seen anyone else put this in their recipe for half sours in the many threads I read.

Anyhow, was wondering if it is safe to add and at what point in the processto add it.

Calcium chloide COULD be used, but its use in a refrigerator pickle will not really help cripness to improve. In Claussen, there are TWO TYPES of fermeted pickles. The ones I write about are half sours, not fully fermented, so calcium additives are not necessary if they are ALWAYS chilled and used up within a year. Commercially made, the calcium is also used in acidic whole tomatoes to help reduce fiber breakdowns during possibly much longer, or less controlled environments. You can try the calcium in a fully fermented pickle, but keep in mind that its buffer (actally slightly neutralizes) will reduce the breaking down of the cukes while in an acid brine. Pickle Crisp and CC are now considered safe to use for home pickles using VINEGAR as part of the juice. The fermented ones would see added calcium to affect the NATURALLY OCCURING LACTOSE acid instead, which may lead to sooner spoilage or off tastes. Suffice to say that the half sour would yield the most crispest and longest lasting texture of any brined cukes. Half sours are not fermented to a fully lactic acid
brine, but a more complex means to imprive keeping qualities using a helping hand from a tiny spoon of vinegar added pror to the 2-5 day partial ferment and the halting of the active lactos acid creation.

Finally, ONLY AFTER a full fermantation can you add any calcium. Adding this at the beginning or early on, will give poor results in many cases for ANY fermented pckle. I use PC and CC for vinegar based pickles only. For a true FERMENTED pickle of any kind, I wouldn't want to can or use any heat processes to can or preserve it. If you like mushy pickles and still enjoy them after a year, your left to with your own decisions.

Good luck. I do think I also posted this info before, but because pickle posts are now going nuts here, its worth repeating..

I have never had a problem with my half sours not being crisp either (except when I use slicing cukes when I have too many of them) and I never used the pickle crisp before either. I wonder why Claussen uses it for theirs maybe it serves some other purpose. I may add some to a split batch and compare.

I have no interest in canning pickles except relish. I love me some relish with a little sausage and mustard.

Full sours, the scuzz always deterred me and I have attempted and thrown out a batch every year since I started. Trying again though this year. No beetles this year, so there are millions it seems.

Carol, I am utterly devastated to hear that my search for the meaning of life in the perfect jar of plum preserves is, well, fruitless. Yeah, it's a groaner. Sometimes I can't help myself. =)

Alum is used in SOME sour vinegar pickles as well as a few others. It has no propertes to help keep a pickle crisp. Only the ability to enhance a dry puckering feeling in the mout. Alum is basically aluminum, and isn't really ecommended much today. My little alum jar is well over 25 years old. PC and/or CC is simply a way for reduce FOR THE LONG STORAGE TIME the breaking down of cuke fibers, so it helps to keep pickles a bit firmer for a longer time. If you want to aviod a heat canning process, another thing that can help is to boil the finished brine, then allow to cool until room temps. Then fill the cold packed jars. The rinsing well if a cuke is very important too, as is the cutting off of the end tips, if you want Commerrciually made Claussen's adds the calcium chloride for JUST a SHELF EXTENDER. They also offer half sour, and fully fermented fully sour pickles and even whole green tomatoes. Its not really necesary for either a partially or fully fermented pickle that starts out as a salt brine and pickling cukes and in the home. Any other cukes besides a pickler will offer tougher skins and will break down faster due to an even higher water content.

We had a discussion about processing pickles at our last food safety training meeting, a week or so ago.
We all voiced our experiences with processing. The concensus was that the low temp. pasteurization was a pain to "babysit". We feel that using the regular boiling water bath was easier and the pickles no softer in the BWB.
Processing actually is a good thing for pickles because it destroys the enzymes that cause spoilage and deterioration in foods.
So, those were our conculsions, for what it is worth.
The most popular pickle for fermented ones is the Claussen type recipe.
Then, other than that, the quick pack pickles are really good, too. Pickle Crisp is good in them.
Alum does help keep fermented pickles crisp.
If I were processing fermented ones I would probably add a little pickle crisp before they were sealed.

Ken, are you keeping your blood sugar under control ? That could help explain why you are feeling as you are.
I do understand, though. After doing this for 8 years I sometimes get tired of the repetition of the job. I do as was said, I just have to take a break sometimes !

This year is especially busy. So many more folks are learning to preserve foods in record numbers. The economy and the scare of the commercial food sources are the reasons in the increase. Mostly the economy.

Prednisone, due to kidney failure. Blood sugars now require TRIPLE doses of two kinds of insulin. Its given me weakness, and no taste or smell. Now is affecting my digestion and its causing stomach pains (probably a new bleeding duodenal ulcer again!!). Shaking hands, stuttering, unable to keep a single thought well and so many more side effects, to numerous to deal with. Also afftected my sense of taste and smell, as well as very dry desert mouth, which is so bitter for anything eaten that its really going to be difficult for me to make my half sour brines due to these losses. Also have serious digestive issues now and they are uncontrollable without being very close to a bathroom! I have 2 more DR appts next week and one today, but none are addressing these latest steroid side effects intil August when I visit the nephrologist again and see if she wants crits, creatine, and many other tests repeated. Prednisone is nearly deadly to me, and even a blood sugar test leaves small sore infections on my fingers or elsewhere. To add, I have a $1100 bill for needing a crown on a old tooth that has half the filling gone for several months now. The prednisone has almost stopped any effects an insulin shot can do normally. If the diseases doesn't kill me first, it will be the 20+ meds and prednisone I take every day. that will. OH oh, gotta run again, before I have the third accident!

Good grief, Ken. I'm so sorry you're having all these issues. Best thoughts for your upcoming appointments and that they help with the problems. If at all possible, can you bring up the steroid isues with the docs you see today/next week?

Ken, with everything that's spinning around in your world, I hope the following thoughts bring you some moments of respite in the storm:

By sharing here you have touched the lives of people beyond your town, state and even country. You have taught, corrected, advised, cajoled, and yes, sometimes enfuriated ;^). But most of all, you have inspired. You have inspired many of us to try things we might never have done without your presence here. It is a gift from a generous soul.

And though many of us may not say thank you as often as we might, to you, Linda Lou, Carol, Annie and so many of you who generously share your experiences with us newbies, be assured that, at least on my part, every time I eat a pickle, or pick fresh dill, or hear a lid ping you are there, and I thank you.

Sending these, and many other good thoughts your way... W

I agree. I cannot put it as eloquently as posted above.

Even through disagreements and differences here in cyber-space, I have learned much and been inspired by you, Ken.

Please take care of yourself first. Prayers are headed your way.

Deanna

Thanks. Don't want to ruffle feathers, but a very 'few' diligent posters here are sometimes way too set against using a process or method that they want a 100% guarantee for safety on. Agreed, bringing up Listera and, botulism are very important, but how far can you go to know 100% if a item is safe even if eaten fresh. When I make the same things yearly, or have never had any safety issues with home canning. If my old Polish grandmother was still around (died at age 93), she would still be making the half sour pickles.

A steam canner for me is a necessity and has proven its worth many times. Its not been approved but they are sold and intended ONLY for high acid and/or high sugar ingredients. I actually took the time to almost destroy a steam canner to add many temperature monitoring devices inside, as well as into the contents being canned. All heat testing was very accurate and was not clouded by inferior measurements techniques. Thermocouples were used and several physical locations inside the steam canner were measured. Fast to heat, a LOT less water, and a lot less waiting times. Its an item still being sold and will probably be done for many more years.

Today, 2 more new meds added, about 5 vials of blood work, more chest xrays and other labs. Its all making me go under faster. I just lost Medicaid as the state wants me to work. SSA disability says no work. The bills just keep coming, and one person at Medicaid says pay them, another person says no. The Medicaid ended totally for me on June 30. Several half hour phone calls to them and no real valid info yet. I also get bills for months I am not under coverage for. I have aptly 'nicknamed' Medicare- MediKILL as its killing me financially, physically, and mentally now. I stll keep looking for the money tree growing out back. Heck, I try to grow everything else here, why not that??! MAJOR effort today just to walk from my car to one of the doctors offices and then to lab. Was very winded and its getting worse by the day. Luckily I can still sleep a little, but have lost another nearly 10 pounds from last week. No taste, and not even water has a taste for me now. Its not good good for me...

Sorry for the hijack, but the subject is still about me too..

Ken,
I was concerned because you just didn't seem yourself. I am sorry you are so ill.
I do try to take care of myself so I hope I don't have kidney failure, etc.
This is an awful disease, I know, all too well. Losing 10 lb. would normally help with the blood sugar levels, but I guess with all the prednisone perhaps it hasn't helped.
Hope you get some help and soon !!!

Ken,

I sure hope you feel better soon! You are in my thoughts and prayers.

Lynn :)

Ken,

Indeed, this thread is titled "Ken's half-sour pickle recipe question". So it is about your pickling method and you certainly have every reason to express yourself fully on the topic. Those of us who have hung out here for a while understand your passion about these things.

It is fortunate that Linda Lou has a personal insight into your health issues. It makes all the difference to those of us who did not pick up on your situation as she did.

Your problem with state governmental agencies is one I can identify with, being in the midst of a tangle of catch twenty twos just now. Every time I rebut their baseless requirements, they come up with a new story. They make it up on the spot, out of thin air. It's enough to drive a person over the edge and I think they bear a moral responsibility for the effect they must be having on you.

BTW, I once proudly served as a bureaucrat for a period of time, so I can say not all are intent on making life miserable. The good ones are professionals who smooth the path. It's the self important hacks whose pleasure is to impose their petty authority on us that cause undue hypertension and loss of sleep, if we let them.

Time to step off *my* soapbox now. I just urge everyone to do whatever they can to work against tyranny in government wherever they see it. Consider it universal mental health care.

Jim

Ken,

Fist off, I want you and others to know that I was in no way questioning your pickling method or recipe. If it came off that way I am very sorry. I realize now that I may have insulted you without meaning to. I know that your method is safe or you wouldn't have been making these pickles all these years and even still today. I love Deli dills and if I'm not mistaken this is kind of like them and I wanted to try them. Believe me if I questioned the safety of your canning method I wouldn't have inquired information from you and others about how to proceed in the making of them. The thing is that since I am new to pickling I was afraid that I would make a mistake. For instance when you talked about doing a taste test to see if the brine was salty enough, I was thinking to myself everyones taste is different and what may taste salty to me might not taste salty to you and since you are an expert at making these pickles you may (if you were here with me tasting the brine that I tried to make)say that is not enough salt, we need to add more so that these pickles can do their thing. So what I was really asking is a measurement that I could start out with like 1 cup salt to a gallon of water and then add more from there to suite my own taste as far as saltiness goes. The clue being that 1 cup of salt would be the least amount of salt that I could get away with using in that amount of water for the fermentation process to be successful. From what I understand if you don't use enough salt fermentaion may not take place and I just wanted to make sure that it would. It wasn't your recipe or method that I was questioning, you have been doing this for many years and I trust you. It is my judgement of taste that I was afraid to trust. I am so sorry Ken, I really did not mean to offend you. I was not trying to imply that your pickling technique or recipe would cause me illness and I am so very sorry if it came off that way. I know these pickles are going to taste wonderful and I am going to making my first batch soon and I can't wait. Also I wanted to say that I am sorry that you are ill, I have diabetes myself and it is a nasty disease. I hope you feel better soon and you are in my prayers......Lisa

Ken, I am certainly sorry to hear you are experiencing such severe health and financial issues.

The frustrations of dealing with "the system" can send anyone around the bend, but it's much worse when you're caught between treatment and cost.

I can attest to the frustrations of dealing with bureaucracy. My husband has been pursuing a claim with the VA for Agent Orange exposure. So far we've been through six rounds of denials. The last time they asked him to prove he was in Vietnam.

And how is it that the VA, which has all his service records, after nearly ten years of this ordeal, suddenly needs proof of what they already know??? To add to the absurdity, his VA medical card is marked, "Service Related Disability."

BTDT. You have my sympathy.

Carol

Dear Ken,
My wishes go out to you and I will be the first to wish you Happy Birthday next month (don't know why I remember that). I have been one of those who may have asked a redundant question in the past (and you answered it about acid blend) and for that I thank you for your patience. If this were NOT the internet, I'd like to throw you a birthday party just to say "THANKS" for all your patience and wisdom that you have shared with us in 1000's of posts you have posted to assist those of us who have not mastered the craft of food preservation as you have. I have always felt it a shame that you have not compiled all that you know in a "food encyclopedia" of some sort. Since that is NOT going to happen, PLEASE TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF as you are a NATIONAL ASSET to many such as myself that you do not even know. Hey, I just came in tonight to look up canning of squid - damn - nothing in the search engine on this site except for unanswered questions about canning squid. Canned squid was a major export item exceeding crab in the 1800's in California so I thought there might be something. But see, all those who canned the squid are gone and they left no record of how it was done that I can find. Thanks again Ken - If you only knew how many times I've said to someone about food preservation: Well, Ken Rogers of the Harvest Forum says that: ---------- Regards Jim McNulty in So. California

Jim,
Why don't you contact Elizabeth Andress at the University of Georgia about the squid. Since I only have the current USDA methods, perhaps she can shed some light on the squid question. She wrote the USDA guidelines. I hate to provide my personal opinion without asking her first.

Here is a link that might be useful: Email Elizabeth Andress

Actually, she's already been emailed on that question. You can find her answer on this earlier thread about canning squid.

Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: Canning Squid

He got a response from Elaine, not Elizabeth Andress. I emailed her. Will see if I get some more info from her on the squid.

Sorry, you're right. It was Elaine. But it is from the NCHFP.

Carol

Have not been here two days and am overwhelmed with posts! Spent the last two days in the hell hole of a hospital again. dealing with idiots, ignorance, and just plain rabid dog bed side manner from DOCTORS no less! CT scans, Gamama scans, more Xrays and many more lab and blood tests. Now allergic to paper adhesive tape. Both arms all bruised up from it and many needls. Right hand swelled and bruised, as well as two failed 'blood gas' tests that require 'scraping' a bone in your wrist where they take pulses from. Will be charged a second day stay as they delayed my checkout, AGAIN! Will now be writing many complaints to them, along with not paying bills I didn't want and have to deal with. More medications added to the big list (going into two pages now). Weak, short of breath, chest pains, under physical mental stress, even having tears and tirades were no help. More tranquiizers too.. This time its Ativan the 'loopy' drug. Don't need this, just get that hole dug soon. Soory for the sob story, but with things the way they are now, I may not last much longer. 35+ lb weight loss in 36 days?

I am so sorry to hear this Ken. What an ordeal. The weight loss must be very concerning, along with everything else.

I hope you find at least one medical professional willing to go to bat for you and figure out some effective methods for addressing both the physical and financial issues.

Carol

MediKILL thats my name for it! My first 16 year job out of HS is giving me a pension of a whopping $58 a month!! By next year that MIGHT buy me a single tank of gas (10 gallons) per month.

this was made in 1400 gallon brine tank,200 gallon tank...i have reduced it down to a 40 gallon recipe...this is the real deal...merry christmas...(HALF SOUR PICKLING BRINE)THIS IS REFRIGERATED...32 GALLONS OF WATER...7 GALLONS OF 100% LIQIUD SALT...1 GALLON OF 200 GRAIN VINEGAR (THAT MIGHT BE A ISSUE)...12 OUNCES OF CALCIUM CHLORIDE...2 DRY OUNCES OF GARLIC CONCENTRATE...1 TSP PICKLING SPICE...FINISHED BRINE SPECS SHOULD BE...15 DEGREE SOLOMETER...PH 3.2...................... ENJOY!!!!!

Lats a LOT of brine!!Where would one get 100% liquid salt? 200 grain vinegar? what is that?

salt water,just like the ocean...salt meets the water,no problem there...vinegar like i stated might be a issue...sorry i cant go into much detail,if you understand!!

Ken,

Best wishes. I didn't know about your health issues. I'm kinda new here, posted a little last spring. Knowing of your health situation makes me even more appreciative of your taking the time to explain about sausage making.

As to the government - it's sad. We are beginning the Golden Years and are both, thankfully, in good health. Sometimes I think I worry more about the possibility of having to deal with such government entities than I do about our health.

Sea water is not 100% salt.. I would be a bit concerned about using sea water too as it can have all kinds of minerals and organisms that might not do well with cucumber pickles. Pure vinegar aka Acetic Acid is very strong , and is 100% acid, its not food grade however. Most commercial picklers use 20% strength and dilute it down.

Would need a BIG barrel

when we order for our 28 ton rock salt tank,it will mix with the water about about the bottom 3 feet of the tank...it will be transfered (275 gallon) to the 1400 gallon brine tank with 1100 gallon of water in it...

Measuring the salt by weight and the water by volume is the easiest to do. For hald sours, the vinegar is not usually added until after 3 to 5 days of fermentation. It tends to stop the fermentation from continuing. When I eat my half sours they take on an acidic vinegar taste, even though just a tablespoon of distilled vinegar per half gallon of salt/water brine is used.