Hi,
I am type 2 diabetic. I have been making no sugar jams and jellies for myself using Splenda. They are still good. I also stopped making pickled beets with sugar, no more Linda Lou's sweet pickle chunks, and no more special pecan praline syrup. If I have sweet pickles they have Splenda in them nowdays.
I make marinated mushrooms for myself. I have dill pickles instead of sweet usually. I sent some zucchini relish to my brother in law today for his birthday since I can't seem to eat it.
I have really changed my diet. I do not want to go blind, lose a foot or limb, or have kidney failure. This disease affects every cell in your body.
It is really sad to see the small children get it due to the diet they are being fed. My daughter doesn't feed my grandson a diet of fast food or just junk. I am glad he gets a balanced diet. Even juice is limited at their home since it is concentrated sugar.
This country is in sad shape.
I do know with dealing with the disease that it is possible to control it. There are changes you can make. It is not always fun nor always convenient to plan ahead so much. However, I have lost some weight and I do feel better, as well as look better.
I am doing more than I could a few years ago. For that I am truly thankful !

To: linda-lou

I'm glad to hear you take it seriously and are willing to change your eating habits. So many diabetics I've known were unwilling to make changes in their diet which led to serious health issues in time.

Also salt! Look at most pickle recipes for canning. None of us need all that salt.

According to researchers, excess sugar in the diet as kids has not been linked to diabetes. What is linked is its hereditary, and obesity can bring it on at an earlier life. I have a friend who is 89 years old and was diagnosed with it at age 84. He was never overweight. Another friend two years younger than me, who is walking a lot every day, skinny, and lives a very healthy life also came down with type 2. Today, fortunately, there are many ways to control it both with diet and medications. Linda Lou can attest to its issues too, as she found out just a few years ago that she now faces type 2. I had an aunt who hated doctors, was heavy, and hated taking medications. She went blind and then kidney failure set in. My dads younger brother and sister both had kidney disease, which as also found me. The options for sugarless substitutes are many now, so you have many choices and way to make things that are less damaging to people who must limit carbohydrates and refined sugars. Salt is another story. In some, salt has no effect even in higher doses, with many 'condemnents', there is a LOT of sugar and salt, like ketchup, and sweet pickles for instance. Because many of these are used just as seasonings or flavor enhancers they do help some people. I wouldn't try making anything with a salt substitute however, as potassium chloride is the most retched stuff there is. Mrs. Dash products help, but would not do well in a pickle brine. Think of these high amount of salt and/or sugar foods a delicacy, or at least something not eaten 3 times a day. Even though I take 20 different meds per day, I still can, and use the items mentioned. Sugar however is something I might buy maybe once every 2-3 years. Splenda has been one of my favorites lately and does a fine job with Pomona pctin in getting decent tasting sugar free jellies. I also like to enhance the acidity so that any artificial sweetener will not overpower another flavor. For me, I take two kinds of insulin by needles every day. The fast acting insulin is injected 2-3 times per day at meal times. Thats a LOT of shots!!

According to research I have been seeing lately it is not the sugar that is causing the type 2 diabetes and other Western illnesses but the Western diet. Specifically all the processed and fake food. I am a type 1 diabetic and I don't worry to much about the sugar in my jams and such, its not like that is all we eat, even at a meal where it is served. However my family does not eat high fructose corn syrup, trans fats or solid vegetable oil of any kind and other fake food (including vegetarian meat substances other then tofu).

Ken, have you thought of using a pump? I have one and love it.

-Robin

My son, 40, was just diagnosed with Type II. It runs in our family - my father, brother, and my husband's Mother. There is definitely a 'family' factor there.

My son is overweight and the doctor has told him to drop that - but that weight wasn't the problem as much as what you eat to get that weight - refined foods and additives, as well as sugars and starches. He did say weight could be an indicator, especially in children.

Also, he has told him to eliminate high fructose corn syrup from his family's diet - 'if you love them', he said. He said stevia was OK, saccharin was OK, he recommended no Splenda and absolutely no aspartame.

I'm hoping he doesn't have to do insulin for a while. My brother was able to control his with diet for years, then pills and now insulin, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Of course, my sister in law kept him to his diet over the years. She's a jewel.

Certainly we don't need the amount of sugar we eat, but I'm not sure that is the only culprit. I've always thought it had more to do with the additives in our food. The people I know ate a lot more starches and fat, and we ate quite a bit of sugar. Of course, nothing like what kids get in soft drinks today. Our food was just plain food, no fake foods.

ladytexan, The worst part of all those sodas people drink now is they give people choice between high fructose corn syrup or artificial sweeteners. No thanks.

Personally I think it depends on the starches. Mashed potatoes made with the skins left on are a very different category from store bought white bread made with high fructose corn syrup and additives.

-Robin

Processed fake foods are not likely to cause diabetes unless you're talking about all the high carb processed foods like corn chips, white bread, cookies, cake, sugared "anything"... etc. which are very high in sugar (carb conversion) once it hits your bloodstream.

Too much carbohydrates (sugars) and the resulting OBESITY is causing diabetes to skyrocket in the USA. Genetics plays a small role in adult-onset type #2 diabetes. This is a disease that was all but unknown among the American Indians and Eskimos at one time. As soon as they adopted our deadly high fat, high carb/sugar diet, they too became obese and started suffering from diabetes and heart disease.

Remove 90% of the carbs/sugars from our diets and watch everyones weight drop along with heart disease and diabetes.

Salt is another thing altogether. We consume much more than is needed and natural for us.

To: Lady Texan

When you see diabetes "running" in families it's because families almost always eat the same poor diet. I learned that working in a Hospital. Poor diet runs in families. Carbohydrates *are* sugars.

What are you calling "fake food?" I haven't seen any foods made of plastics or rubber. I do see the typical high carb/sugar foods in every shopping cart at the grocery store such as bread, cookies, snack chips and crackers, rolls, potatoes, cake, donuts and other useless fattening empty calorie unnecessary food items. Additives don't cause diabetes.

If your son is obese he was not on a good healthy diet. You can be sure he was eating plenty of carbs, which are sugars, and most likely too much fatty foods. He probably didn't get much exercise either.

Do you realize most people don't know that carbohydrates are sugars? They may hit the bloodstream fast or slow but the damage is the same = obesity, insulin resistance and in the end diabetes.

TO: ksrogers

Sugar (carbohydrates) are indeed the cause of obesity and diabetes in young people, with the exception of type #1 the child is born with. Children today are not getting enough exercise to burn off all the unneeded empty "sugar" calories they're consuming each day. Mother's allow them to overeat and eat too much junk food which is primarily carbs (sugars) and salty fats. A deadly combination. Remove the carbs/sugar and watch their weight drop to normal and the diabetes rate drop along with their weight.

Aside from your diabetic meds, why are you on so much medication? Do you have complications from the diabetes?

My Father lived a city life - my brother was reared by my Mother and Stepfather 100's of miles from him on a farm eating a farm diet. My brother never lived with my Father - my son never lived with either my father or my brother, nor ate the same diet.

My brother was never overweight and did a lot of physical work on his farm. His wife was an excellent and health conscious cook. They raised a lot of their own food. When he was first diagnosed with diabetes, he couldn't take a pill. He was sent to a nutritionist who gave him a strict diet. My sister in law weighed every oz he ate, even counted those animal crackers - 11 of them. He didn't get 12, either. It did slow down the disease and the need to take insulin, but it didn't stop it.

My son does have a very poor diet - I hope I didn't suggest that he didn't. Until adulthood, however, my son lived on our 'farm' where we raised almost everything we ate. WE had no refined foods, cokes were for birthday celebrations, etc.

My son owns his own business and much of the time does very hard physical labor.

I don't know about 'most' people - but I absolutely understand that carbohydrates are sugars. I think there are some who don't understand - but 'most'? But while I realize that truly, there isn't a true difference in eating starches or sugars, there is in speaking of them. I don't think there is anyone with family members who are diabetics who don't undertand they are the same, body wise.

But if there is an argument about additives, HFC, refined foods, etc., maybe it's with his doctor as I'm simply repeating him.

I will say I have felt for all my life that additives, chemicals, etc., cause a lot of problems. The reason we moved to the farm and raised our own food was because of my son's allergies. Within a year of eating home grown food, our honey, his allergies were gone. Until that time, he had been on medication almost since birth.

I define fake foods as those you cannot produce at home. So for example if I want to use an oil to cook with it is going to be one that can be produced without the addition of heat and alcohol. If I am going to use a sweetener it is not going to be high fructose corn syrup which needs many chemical processes to become a sweetener form corn, nor will it be an artificial sweetener. If you read Michael Pollan's latest book or "The Jungle Effect" you will understand what I mean by fake food.

By the way, children are not born with type 1 diabetes. It is however a completely different disease from type 2. Also, most food becomes sugar as we digest it, including vegetables like spinach etc.

-Robin

To: ladytexan

I totally agree additives can be harmful. I believe there's a link between all the chemicals in processed foods and cancer. Not just processed sugary/carby "junk food," but processed meats as well. We would all do well to avoid processed foods loaded with preservatives and chemicals.

Looking back at my Aunt raising her brood of children on the farm and growing almost all their food... I remember the large bags of sugar and salt there in the kitchen during canning season. The tin of lard. The blocks of butter. I can now see where some of my cousins heath problems came from, including obesity and cancer. All the good food was canceled out by all the sugar/carbs salt and fats they ate.... they ate the typical deadly American diet in the end.

To: robinkateb

OK, what you're calling fake food we here in TN call "processed" foods. They've gone through some process before being put on the shelf and are usually loaded with chemicals or dyes or preservatives or all those things and more. I call that "garbage food." :)

I know type #1 is different. Two of my friends back home had children with it but both were born with it, it didn't develop later in life. Or I should say it was genetic, not diet/obesity related. One child had some form of pancreatic insufficiency where she produced almost no insulin. The other child's immune system as I recall, destroyed the cells that produced insulin. But we're going back over 40 years so I may not be remembering that 100% right.

To: robinkateb

OK, what you're calling fake food we here in TN call "processed" foods. They've gone through some process before being put on the shelf and are usually loaded with chemicals or dyes or preservatives or all those things and more. I call that "garbage food." :)

I know type #1 is different. Two of my friends back home had children with it but both were born with it, it didn't develop later in life. Or I should say it was genetic, not diet/obesity related. One child had some form of pancreatic insufficiency where she produced almost no insulin. The other child's immune system as I recall, destroyed the cells that produced insulin. But we're going back over 40 years so I may not be remembering that 100% right.

Greehouser,
It may help to reduce your reply posts if you address all your replies in one post like I have just done. I do have kidney issues, Bigh Blood pressure, depression, cholesterol, bybass surgery, no spleen, and arthitis which si now getting bad in my knees. Also, kidneys have affected potassium levels, which are too high. When the potassium was too low, my BP was 207 over 105 and I swelled up with water. When Potassium is too high, your heart just stops.. the end.. Now they want me on steroids again, which I am not looking forard to. That brings on many more infections, nasty bleeding ulcurs and a temperment that is like a very mad gorilla.

I worked with somone who lived only on candy bars and cokes. He was not a very mentally well person and had been fired because he put his fist through some walls at the business.

Robin-
The doctor said a pump for me would be both expensive and difficult to deal with. The reason is I cannot stay exactly on a set time of day when I eat a meal. Pumps are fine for some, especially if they are not able to inject at any time they need to, and are on set schedules.

Exactly what IS an 'artifical preservative'?? Is it something other than formaldahyde. All these TV commericals say 'whole grain', but do you really see the skins with the grains and such in that food?

To: ksrogers

I can't put all my replies in one post because there are always new replies or new posts to reply to. Or a reply is directed more toward one person than everyone.

I'm sorry to hear you suffer from so many health problems. That has got to make life difficult. I don't know what to attribute my good health to but at 63 the only medication I take is Levoxyl as my thyroid went south at menopause. My husband, the same age, takes no medications at all.

All I can say is we remain active and eat a good diet with very little junk-foods or processed food. We don't eat fried food. We were never big for the typical deadly toxic high-fat and high-carb American diet. We're not only the fattest but we're becoming the sickest nation on earth. It's a sad situation.

Ken, Sounds like your doctor is crazy. The pump allows me to be flexible as I only bolus (give myself insulin to cover meals) when I eat. Also there is no long acting insulin needed so if I want to exercise I don't need to plan ahead. Expensive, yes, but insurance covers them and it sounds like you are already meeting any deductible you have.

Greenhouser, We use the term processed food here as well. However by fake food I am talking about things like corn oil, fat free half and half, fat free mayo etc that people don't think of as processed. I don't think high fat is the problem either (look at the French) I think it is the fake fats we use here that makes high fat a problem. Even the fat of our meat is suspect because of how the meat was raised.

-Robin

I started out on the typical farm diet - lots of fats (bacon, ham, sausage) lots of sugar (pies, cakes, bread, jellies, jams), lots and lots of milk products (butter, milk, cheese...). Few fresh veggies and fruit in winter. When frozen food was invented and winter produce became more common, I was happy to switch to more veggies and fruit and now that is mostly what I eat, along with high fiber whole wheat products - no white flour, no potatoes, no white pasta or rice. But I do like sweets and I sugar my morning fruit. And though both my mother and an aunt had type 2 diabetes, I handle sugar very nicely, thank you, have chloresterol and blood pressure under control. I'm losing ground to heart problems but at a very advanced age, that's not unexpected. Unless they've invented immortality and I haven't found out about it yet. I can do without soda and artificial sweeteners but please don't take away fruit juice, lemonade and jam on my whole wheat toast.

To: Robin

It's not the fats per sei, it's the fats eaten with CARBS/SUGARS that cause the problem as Dr. Atkins found out over 25 years ago. Carbs/sugars fatten human beings as quickly as they fatten livestock. Fats and oils and proteins are not used to fatten livestock. Carbs/sugars drive up insulin levels which signal the body to STORE the fats and any extra protein eaten at the same meal. Even the NY Times had an excellent article about low-carb diets a few years back. But we will never wean Americans off the excessive carbs/sugar in our diet.

I saw that special. The French drink wine with their meals and their portions are *MUCH SMALLER* than we Americans put on our plates.

Nothing worse than a fatty high carb/sugar meal - for the reason mentioned above. That's why the Atkins or other low-carb diets work so well to lose weight (no insulin spikes) and help restore health, if it isn't too late.

I had a coworker who was type 1 and he uses regular injections. I made a totally sugarless 2 layer chocolate cake wth lots of gooey chocolate frosting and brought in a piece for him. It even had my creamed filling recipe that was modified for sugarless diets. It does contain a lot of carbs though due to the fats and starches, but for someone who needs to control things very closely, it will only spike a little provided your aware of it. My sugars are sometimes all over the place they can go up even if I don't eat a single thing all day, and then at times drop down to the upper 50's and 60's where I start to get the shakes. These can happen at any time, so I have to be sure to have something sweet ready if needed. The guy I know that has a pump is an oil deleviry man and he lokes it only because he doesn't have to stop and inject. Even for that, my endocrinologist who has many patients, as not given many the pump. I used to take Humulin N and Humulog and mix them at times. Then Lantus came out and its that alone without Humulog or just Humulog alone. I cannot mix these as it would destroy the long lasting effects Lantus provides. DId that once, it got cloudy in the syringe and my sugars dropped like a rock. A Triple bypass 12 years ago, and a nearly 4 month stay (16 years ago) in the hospital for ITP had put me through hell. Prednisone steroids was administered and it brought on all kinds of infections and complications. My brother was diabetic too and two quadruple bypasses and died 2 years ago at my age of 62.

To: ksrogers

"I made a totally sugarless 2 layer chocolate cake wth lots of gooey chocolate frosting and brought in a piece for him.

It does contain a lot of carbs though due to the fats and starches, but for someone who needs to control things very closely, it will only spike a little provided your aware of it."

A few things here. The cake was not totally sugarless if it contained a lot of carbs. Carbs are sugar. Once it hits your bloodstream they're the same thing. There is little difference between flour and granular sugar once in the body. The damage they do is similar. Fats/oils are not sugar or starches. Human beings don't need any more carbs or "sugars" than they get in a normal portion of vegetables. We can convert extra protein into carbs if need be. Our bodies are not designed to handle the abnormal excessive amounts of carbs/sugars people consume on a daily basis in this country.

You're a diabetic yet you mentioned eating peas and corn. These are both loaded with sugar/starch/carbs = all the same thing. They're fattening and not good for diabetics or the obese.

Carbs are flour and fat and any kinds of binders. Low carb is doing without flour based products, along with fefined sugars. It might be the same in the blood, but its broken down much slower than a direct sugar. I have eaten the corn and peas, and you must keep in mind that if I were to only eat what was allowed, and that is basically lettuce and cucumbers, I would starve. Corn, and peas are a COMPLEX carb like flour and is metabolized at a much slower rate. This is the reason they tell you to eat candy or glucose sugar tabs when sugars are low in the blood. I am not even allowed to have cranberry or orange juices as they are high in potassium too. Not everyone can truely understand the foods and their effects on the body. Even now, I must avoid high potassium foods, that include tomatoes, potatoes, bananas, grapes, and many other garden items. Then its cholesteral and low purien for uric acid control. Beyond all the various diets and restrictions, there is virtually nothing left that has any nutrients in it. The box for the sugarless cake was mentioningg that it can be used for diabetics, but will still raise blood sugars, but not as much as refined sugsrs would do. Eating peas and corn are not daily, or even weekly. I know what I must do and do not need any more people telling me that this is not to be eaten or that has too much sugar or carbohydrates. You can't imagine my diets right now. Very little nutrients left and even iron is quite low and I am also anemic. Eating spinach raises potassium levels way too much too. There are few foods that contain anything left that I can enjoy, so give me a break. If I also followed all of your suggestions, I would have been dead from malnutritian some years ago. Living on just viatmins isn't going to help me either..

My DH has just been diagnosed with pre-type 2. I have been hunting down all articles on the Glycemic Index (GI) and Glycemic Load (GL). The GI tells how much of a "sugar" reaction each food gets when eaten... the higher the number the greater the reaction the worse for your body. GL has to do with the carb load of a food. I am trying to find lists with the GI of the various foods; there are a number of lists, but each is fairly short and doesn't cover all the foods. Sooo, I am trying to create my own database/list by combing all the info off the various lists into one of my own. I am a good enough cook that if I can know the GI of each food then I can make meals that will help DH -- and me -- control the sugar reactions better. We will both probably lose weight along the way too.

I find it interesting that some of you don't want to can because the recipes call for too much salt or sugar or chemicals. This is exactly why I use to can and freeze almost all the fruits and vegetables we ate when we had a growing family -- so our kids wouldn't be getting all the salt, sugar and "chemical stuff" in what they ate. We even bought most of our various kinds of meats from neighbor farmers -- who didn't even know they were organic because they didn't inject their animals and/or feed with hormones, antibiotics, etc.

I just made my DH some really good Apricot preserves with Splenda and Pomona pectin. I made myself some with just a little sugar... nothing near what the regular recipe called for. And, the Black Raspberry jam made with hardly any sugar is like eating a handful of fresh berries, but without the seeds. When you can or freeze foods yourself you are in control of what's going in jar.

And, my most grateful "THANK YOU! " to those of you who recommended and taught about the Pomona Pectin, which I had never even heard of before reading it here.

To: westelle

Generally speaking the worst carbs/starch/sugars come from refined products such as anything made with flour, i.e. breads, pies, cake, gravies (to thicken) bagels etc. Avoid potatoes, rice and cereals. Veggies would include peas, dried beans, potatoes, corn and corn products, corn syrups, honey and all such foods. Going by the GI can be a real PIA. My BIL controls his diabetes with diet alone. He sticks to lean meats, eggs, fish, poultry, veggies such as asparagus, cabbage, wax and snap beans, and lots of different kinds of greens. He's basically on an Atkins type low-carb diet which is excellent for diabetics and pre-diabetics. As long as he sticks to the diet he doesn't need the pills and will probably never need the insulin shots.

Look up low-carb diets and you will find more information than you care to read. :)

The problem is too many people are not willing to give up their carby foods, or don't know what foods are high in carbs/sugars/starches.

They refuse to accept that there is no daily minimum for carbs/starch/sugars because we can make our own from proteins just as the Eskimo and Inuit can. The low-carb veggies contain enough for our bodies to not take that route, but not so much as to cause harmful insulin spikes.

I am truly shocked by some of the things people with diabetes mention eating on these internet forums.

My brother was a diabetic and still loved to get drunk on lots of beer. After two quad bypasses and toes that are turning black, he was not caring much about his future. His death was sudden, as he woke one morning and collapsed. He was nearly pennyless with only a minimal SS check, living in a bedroom of a friend. For me, uric acid, is in things like cabbage and brussels sprouts are twofold concerns. First is the uric and then high potassium. After going over all the do's and don'ts diet restriction lists I have, it has been very difficult to see much left. I can only say that I also have to limit salt, due to water buildup, and take 4 Lasix pills per day just for that. I don't make a meal out of salts or sugars, but do use smaller amounts of them, in some meals. Heck, I am now down to one meal per day and thats very hard on my system too. As mentioned previously, high salt and sugar are meant to be preservatives, and are usually in foods that are only for improving or enhancng flavor. These are mostly condiments, like jams, spreads, and appetizers, as well as pickles, and any brine cured products. Even for that, sandwich/luncheon meats are very high in fats, cereal fillers, salts, and sugar, unless you make, and cure your own, to control the amounts used.

To: ksrogers

I'm sorry about your brother.

I know what you're going through because I have a friend with diabetes and her kidneys are now failing. She also has pancreatitis. There is very little she can eat. Her diet is very strict. Despite the strict diet she will soon be on dialysis.

Greenhouser, I know you are an Atkins Diet advocate, but do you have any formal training in medicine or nutrition? You are right on many points, but you are a little skewed on some. Both my husband and I are Type 2 diabetics. He became a Type 2 after having a heart transplant 3 years ago Aug. 17. He was on insulin for a short time and now controls it via diet. I take a pill and use diet control. We both have the best in medical and nutritional care. We both are allowed to have any vegetable or fruit we want, however, we have restrictions on amounts. Yes, peas do have sugar - natural and I can have 1/2 c. at a meal. If I have them, I don't have corn, also 1/2 c. limit. By the way, my people survived through the ages on a staple of corn along with beans, squash, berries, buffalo and whatever game they could hunt down. Diabetes didn't become a problem until quite a while after the Europeans came to America. Anyway, a small piece of fruit is allowed, depending on the amounts of other foods in our daily diet. Yes, potatoes, rice, cereals, breads, beans, corn, etc. are all carbs, but they all are figured into our allowances, but not all at the same time and in very limited amounts. We have choices of, for example, do I want a slice of toast, half an english muffin or 1/2 c. of cereal w/1/2 c. of skimmed milk at breakfast with my egg. Oh yes, we eat complex carbs when we are allowed to have them and we can have 1/2 a dinner roll with dinner each evening if we want it. One night a week we are allowed a little bit of popcorn, butter/oil free, for our snack although a small amount of butter is allowed in our diets each day. My favorite snack is 2 graham crackers with 1/2 c. of skimmed milk. I'm allowed a small piece of chocolate sometimes. Its in my diet that I can have 1/2 a potato for dinner, of course, it depends on what other items I have. Its a little more complicated than you think. Carbs must be kept to a minimum, and should be complex carbs. Fats should be used in limited amounts and certain types should be avoided.

Oh, and another thing, my wonderful BIL was very stictly on the Atkins Diet for quite some time and it almost killed him.

I honestly believe you can't say "you can have only this and none of that" and have it apply to all people under all circumstances. Ken is an excellent example of that. I can have a lot of things that would kill him.

To: bcskye

Please don't put words in my posts and make claims I never made. I am not on the Atkins diet. I am a low-carber and only eat complex carbs when I do consume them. If your BIL "almost died" (you didn't mention what happened to him) then he wasn't following the Atkins low-carb (not no carb) diet but some other dangerous diet. Millions of people have followed the Atkins diet and no one known has died from it. Almost all lost weight they couldn't lose any other way and their blood values improved. You need to read one of his Books or a few low-carb website to understand the diet and how and why it works.

If the diet you are on works for you and you're happy with it, no one is going to tell you to change it.

And yes, I did study nutrition in the past. And no, I am not a lic nutritionist.

My BIL doesn't need the pill because he's quite happy to give up that 1/2 a potato, the popcorn, the peas and other high sugar/starch/carb foods you continue to consume, low GI or not. He has instead; greens, a salad, broccoli or cauliflower, string beans, wax beans and other healthy vegetables with his lean portion of meat, fish or poultry.

Whatever works for you, you should stick with....... :)

Greenhouser, I was not trying to put words in your post. I didn't state you were on the Atkins Diet, but that you were an advocate of the Atkins Diet because you did refer to it quite a few times.

What I was trying to say, one size does not fit all. Yes, I do continue to eat the 1/2 a potato, the popcorn, the peas and the corn occasionally as well as all my greens with a little lean meat. I am losing weight and my sugar is under control. My weight problem was caused by extreme stress due to a husband with a failing heart, with no hope given, and taking care of two dying family members. Chocolate and ice cream were my best friends. Before weight, 125 lbs., after weight, 207 lbs. Yep, sugar was my best friend. We are under the care of excellent doctors and lic. nutritionists and it is working well. I was just diagnosed a year ago and expect to be able to go off the pill when I have my next appointment.

My DH was an exception to the rules concerning his heart. He jogged or rode his bike every day, stayed away from fatty foods, carbs and sugar, alcohol and never touched a cigarette in his life. Wouldn't even stay in a room where someone else was smoking. His weight was great and stess level low. Even when he started noticing a problem, the doctor he had at the time said he was in great shape and not having heart problems. Wham! At age 38 a massive heart attack that should have killed him. Five by-passes. We also started studying nutrition at the direction of new doctors and everything done was according to what we were directed to do. Three years ago and another massive heart attack and they said there was nothing they could do to help him. He pushed and got the transplant. He's doing extremely well.

Dear BIL said he followed the Atkins Diet to the "T". He'd never been overweight in his life and living in Florida, he roller bladed, cycled and swam every day. I believe the problems started in his legs - severe cramps. Then some other problems. His doctor finally convinced him to get off the diet. This was in his 40's. He now avoids carbs, except complex carbs. He's in his 50's and is doing great.

My point is that there is not one thing that is perfect for all. One size really doesn't fit all. My doctor and nutritionist want me to have a balance diet with the avoidance of simple carbs and strict limitations on complex carbs. There are even recipes that are approved that contain a very small amount of sugar, however, they aren't allowed very often and I do personally avoid them. My niece's husband (30), my neighbor (75), and a girlfriend since 3rd grade (65) all are Type I diabetics. Their doctors allow them to have the 1/2 c. of peas or corn or 1/2 potato or popcorn in their diets, but balanced in with the rest of their foods. They are even allowed a tiny piece of cake occasionally or something with a very minimal amount of sugar. And they all are doing extremely well.

I agree that carbs, fats and salt are the downfall of the human race, but you cannot state total abstinence from them is the perfect solution for everyone. Otherwise poor Ken would be dead and we would all be filled with terrible grief at our loss. Keep up whatever you're doing, Ken, we want you around as long as possible.

A guy I know who is diabetic will opt for eating afew crackers when his blood sugar is very low, as pposed to popping a cany or other high sugar. WIth that aproach the complex carbs of a cracker wil take mch longer to get the blood sugars back up again. Mine can suddently drop within half an hour sometimes, and the drops are in the low 60's. When my doctor hears that, he asks what I was doing at the time, when did I eat last ad we was my insulin taken. Obviously if I have to use two kinds of insulin and also tow capacities of insulin syringes, if I wasn't playing close attention before injection, I could easily overdose. Humulog for me would be an overdose above 35 units. If I grabbed a 100 unit syringe and was supposed to inject 80-90 units of Lantus, and accidentially filled the syringe with Humulog, I would quickly be in big trouble!
Even with diet and controls of all kinds, as we age, the pancreas can slow down and make use need more natural insulin, and if its not made, we have few alternatives but to face a needle of some serious pills that may have other bad side effects. Actos was one pill I took for a short while until I started to retain water.

From one week to the next, the doctor is having me suspect or start up ne meds, or double or half some to. I have to keep a running list weekly on my medications, as its just too much to remember all the time. I have to bring these updated listes to every doctor I see. I have five doctr appointments for July alone. Just now started on Medicare part B.

To: bcskye

Of course one size does not fit all but as you said yourself, sugar, salt and fats are behind so many of societies health problems ("..our downfall").

You said: "He jogged or rode his bike every day, stayed away from fatty foods, carbs and sugar, alcohol and never touched a cigarette in his life." And "We also started studying nutrition at the direction of new doctors and everything done was according to what we were directed to do."

There's a contradiction there. I must ask how your husband's arteries were so clogged with cholesterol if he was on such a healthy diet and exercised. Did he have some form of hereditary heart disease? Why would you need to study nutrition since he was on an ideal diet to start with? I find that confusing.

As for the BIL.

I quite you: "Dear BIL said he followed the Atkins Diet to the "T". He'd never been overweight in his life and living in Florida, he roller bladed, cycled and swam every day. I believe the problems started in his legs - severe cramps."

OK, one thing at a time. First, Why was he on a weight loss diet if he was never overweight? I'm sorry but that makes no sense. Leg cramps can be caused by a deficiency of potassium. Some meds can cause it also. If he was on the Atkins diet that should not have happened and he would have known about the potassium/leg cramp connection. Severe leg cramps don't kill people. If he were on the Atkins diet as he claims, he would have given up all carbs for only 14 days and NO LONGER. Then he would have slowly added complex carbs until he stopped losing weight. Why on earth was a man of normal weight trying to lose weight and how long was he off all carbs? And why wasn't he taking the vitamin mineral supplements that prevent leg cramps?

"Then some other problems. His doctor finally convinced him to get off the diet. This was in his 40's. He now avoids carbs, except complex carbs. He's in his 50's and is doing great."

There's a contradiction here. First, what "other" problems that almost killed him? Leg cramps don't kill people and can be caused by several things. If he was following Atkins to a "T" he would have been losing weight and on a well balanced diet after the initial 14 day period. If he wasn't on a balanced diet starting on day 15, he wasn't on Atkins since Atkins allows complex carbs until your weight stabilizes.

To greenhouser:

Okay, I've tried to be nice about this. Just stating what may be good for one is not always good for all.

1. Yes, I said sugar, salt and fats are our downfall. People have stopped using everything in moderation and sugars, fats and salt are the things they seem to have gone 'way overboard on. I have many in my family who have lived well into their 90's eating a balanced diet and not overeating yet not totally eliminating anything in their diet. I did quite well at it myself eating a balanced diet in very small amounts with not much thought to sweets, etc. until 1987 when food became my best friend and particularly the foods that should be limited. If I had continued my normal diet at that time, I would not be overweight and Type 2 diabetic. Anything in excess is not good for you, I don't care what it is.

2. Gee, even my husband's doctors didn't have a tried and true answer as to why his arteries were so clogged with colesterol. They said he did everything right to avoid heart problems. His colesterol readings were always lower than required. I said he "stayed away from" I should have said he limited his intake of fatty foods, carbs and sugar (although he never really did eat candy, cakes, etc.) to what was considered a more than healthy amount and certainly much less than most people. Yes, we did study more on nutrition to see where we were wrong and found out we were pretty well online about what to eat although the doctor who did his bypasses (the first and top bypass and transplant surgeon in the state) did tell him to cut out red meats except for infrequent occasions, no shellfish and preferably only salmon instead of other fish. We went nearly totally vegetarian and he managed to survive another 18 years before the bypasses clogged and there was no longer anything to bypass to. He's nearly 3 years out from his transplant with no rejection and no colesterol build up. Why, you ask? I don't ask any longer. Not all things can be explained. We figure we did everything we were suppose to so evidentally God handed us what we could handle for some reason and I don't question Him, I thank him for what we do have. We accept this so I'm sure you can as well.

As for BIL, he was middle aged and didn't want to start putting on the weight as so many do. I assuredly know that lack of potassium causes leg cramps and they don't kill you, that is just one of the things I remember him having a lot of problems with and telling his doctor about. As to what other problems, well, my Dear, I didn't grill into his personal problems until I knew every tiny detail. I don't do that to people. All I know is he went to the doctor, obviously having some serious health issues, the doctor advised him to get off the Atkins Diet, which he did and is now doing extremely well. That is good enough for me.

People go on diets for a variety of reasons.

My BIL is a professor of inorganic biochemistry and is the head of public health labs in the state he lives in. He bikes to and from work most days, runs marathons, swims, snow boards, etc. and is in amazing shape. In an effort to improve/maintain his already good health he researched different eating programs. And I do mean researched. He ended up putting himself on a non-Atkins based controlled carb program. Most people would say he doesn't need to be on "a diet" but he says he feels better. (He does on rare occasions treat himself to a big ole piece of pie or a doughnut.) So, why people do what they do is a mystery to everyone but themselves and their therapists. ;^)

Anywho...

When I choose to have jam I prefer to have my homemade jam rather than commercial jam. I know exactly what went into the jar. Same with tomato sauce, salad dressings, marinades, bread, soup and a variety of other items that very often contain some amount of sweetener. When I make it, I know what's in it and how much.

So yes, many recipes contain surprising amounts of sugar and salt. The thing is, it's usually there for a reason. And when preparing these items yourself, you are made quite aware of the amounts in a way you that generally aren't when you pick a can or jar off the shelf of a store.

So, for me at least, it has opened my eyes to the issue of food content far better than any newspaper/magazine article or required product content label.

Interestingly enough, long before sugar was widely known as a health issue, film star Gloria Swanson was a HUGE advocate of getting off sugar. She inspired the book "Sugar Blues" by William Dufty (later her husband). Read it and you'll never see sugar the same way.

When my mom was diagnosed with very high cholesteral, they were not even able to read the extremely high levels. She was told to tell all the rest of her family to have their cholsterol checked, and all were very high too. All my uncles, aunts, and cousins were very high. If I were to not even consume a single gram of anything that might produce cholesterol in my system, it simply makes its own. My cousin has had a heart attack at age 39, and one of my uncles died of that as well. The other uncle died of cancer. On my dads side of the family, some cousins have cancer and some had died. Another cousin has diabetes like me, that came on after 40. These things- cancer, heart disease, and diabetes cannot be avoided in many cases, if the parents all had these same things. My mom had diabetes too, later on, but with cholestrol so high, they just couldn't deal with all the extra medical problems she had. I also just found out that my dads mother was 1/4 Canadian Indian, so that might explain why she was just 4 foot 11 inches tall. Lactose intolerence is also in my family, as our ancestors had very little dairy in their diets. Refined sugar may be a lesser option compared to a more natarally produced honey or a fruit sugar. They all raise blood sugar, but because some are more complex they are metabolized much slower.

whynotmi

When I started to study nutrition some time back I realized how harmful both sugar and refined carbs were. I never did see them the same, believe me - you're right. I also saw firsthand what obesity, caused by all that sugar/carbs/starch eaten with fatty greasy foods did to people I knew and cared about. Diabetes, heart disease, kidney failure...

I guess it gets to me when someone claims a healthy low-carb diet "almost killed" someone. Encouraging people to not eat a healthy diet is unconscionable to me.

We have a "Dr. Gott" who writes a daily article in the paper. He has a "diet" that is suppose to be quite healthy, easy to use, and one can actually lose weight on while on it: No sugar, no flours.... of any kind. Period!

Of course, when you can't have the pancake for breakfast you don't eat the butter and syrup either. ;-)

Westelle, you seem to be under the misguided notion that butter and syrup require some sort of edible platform or delivery system. ;^)

My moms cardiologist, who my dad thought of as a 'quack', used to always tell her to never eat anything that has a face.

You mean he told her to become a vegetarian?

To: westelle

Most of the lowcarb diets I've seen are well balanced healthy diets but few people seem willing to give up those greasy hamburgers and oily salty French fries or mounds of buttered potatoes and fatty steak. They just gotta have that donut with coffee on their break and snack on oily carby salty empty calorie chips while watching TV. They get heavier, and their arteries clog, and they become insulin resistant......

It's very frustrating for health care workers to watch their patients slowly committing suicide with their knives and forks.

To: ksrogers

In some families high cholesterol is a genetic quirk. In my studies I discovered only 2% of those with high cholesterol levels were do to genetics. The other 98% was do to a poor diet high in carbs and animal fats.

However I also learned that poor diet, poor eating habits also runs in families. Eating patterns are learned at home and we take them into our marriages and teach them to our children. So it's no surprise to find someone with high cholesterol or diabetes that has parents and grandparents with the same diseases. They all ate a similar hig fat, high cholesterol diet. In this case it's not genetic at all.

My mom was not obese, and her younger brother was very fit and used to play golf all the time, even after he retired. My moms younger sister also played a lot of golf and she too had very high cholesterol. Our diets were always lean and with my bothers case, he was very underweight until he reached the age about 20. He joined the Army and was there 7 years. Once he got out he was still living a healthy life. He was striken at age 34 with a mild heart attack that was initially diagnosed as heartburn. At the time, he was fighting a fire as a volunteer fire fighter. A few months later, he had a more serious heart attack and was hospitalized, and told that he had scars from a previous attack, and had to undergo quadruple bypass surgery at age 34. Since his brth, he had a small 'heart murmer', which doctors said would be grown out of it. Obvioulsy they were wrong. My brother, contracted hepetitus after the surgery and tainted blood transfusions brought that on. At age 41, he was told that he needed to be on insulin immediately.
Yes, eating nothing with a face is a vegetarian lifestyle. I don't know where you get your information of just 2% heredity for these serious diseases. Your 'studies' are very obviously wrong when you state that there are very few people who get these diseases from their lifestyle. The friends who I know that have diabetes at a later age BOTH had it in their families history. My dads oldest sister was 97 when she died, and she suddenly had diabetes at an age of 86, while living in assisted care, with special diets and activites planned for the elderly.

Your comments seem a bit too narrow minded and seem to also indicate that anyone who has a illness like diabetes or high cholesteral and its complications are due to people eating the wrong food and being fat. This was obviously NOT the case in all my experiences, even though they all came down with these disease even after living very heathly lifestyles all of their lives.

I think this thread might be getting just a tad too riled. That said, I'll toss in my final response.
I heard a great saying:
Some people swear BY certain diets and some swear AT them. ;^)

My BIL specifically chose not to follow the Atkins program as he didn't like the science behind it. I don't remember the specifics, just that he wasn't satisfied. When my BIL starts talking science I trust that he knows his stuff. I wouldn't trust him to grow a tomato though.

Philippe O. Szapary, MD, part of a research team at U Penn studying the Atkins program stated, "It is clear that no type of diet is good for everyone. The best type for individuals may be determined by heredity factors. With good luck, in the not-too-distant future, genetic research will clarify which diets are best for which people."

I'm pretty sure we can all agree that the human body is an amazing and varied creation. We are, each of us, unique unto ourselves.

As a little known song says: "Only heaven knows how glory goes, what each of us was meant to be. In the starlight, that is what we are."

Atkins died overweight, due to heart problems, guess his diet didn't help him much. I am also type 2 diabetic and my nutrition counselor says that the Atkins diet is NOT a good one for diabetics as they need a balanced diet, slow acting carbs being much preferred to fast acting. A little common sense goes a long ways in choosing how to eat within your limits. The portion size plays a major part in control. Diabetics used to be limited to a strict regimen which now has changed a bit. The options are there for a wider variety of food..yes you have to watch what you eat and portion size but a bite or two of something like cake is preferable to sitting down and eating a huge piece. Sometimes a taste will take care of the desire.

I admire anyone who has to eat a special diet and stay within limits for medical reasons. It's not an easy job and not always what we'd prefer to eat. People face many challenges when they have a disease such as diabetes. Each one has a doctor, usually also a nutritionist or a whole team of experts to guide their options. None of us can say what is right or wrong for an individual since we aren't aware of someone else's problems. We need to be nicer to each other and quit the griping.

One more opinion, in many cases a high carb lifestyle, especially as to the Indians, was due to the fact that they stuck them on a reservation, forced them to rely on commodities the government provided, all that flour, lard or shortening, pasta, etc changed their diet totally. This in fact has played a major part in many people's diabetes, can be traced back to the lack of money for a different food choice. Budget still plays a big part in food choices and many who have limited incomes are forced to buy what they can afford. So few seem to consider that diabetes is an expensive illness, not only medicine wise but also to eat what's the best for us. When they realize it's time to quit pushing the non-healthy foods maybe fruits and veggies will become affordable. You have to look at all sides of the problem.

TO: ksrogers

You need to read my message again. The study I read showed that only 2% of people INHERIT the propensity to have high cholesterol despite diet and lifestyle. You're taking a study personal. No one accused you of being obese and eating the wrong foods. The other 98% with high cholesterol are due to poor diet choices. Obesity, heart disease and diabetes was all but unknown before the modern American diet became popular which proves the study right. Don't take a study personal.

To: vic01

Atkins died from the complications of a fall, not obesity or the diseases caused by obesity. He was not a young man. He suffered a fatal head injury. There are other low-carb diets besides the Adkins diet. The diet I follow, and millions of others follow is just a basic low-carb diet that excludes refined carbs and holds all carbs in check.

You can get a balanced diet without eating carby foods at all. Lean meats, greens, low-carb veggies and a piece of fruit each day will do it for the average American. There is nothing unbalanced about a low-carb diet.

I agree budget plays a role. Healthy food isn't cheap but then neither is a greasy meal of hamburgers and fries or fried chicken and apple pie for desert at some greasy spoon.

What you just repeated is that your telling me that 2% of the people in this country are the only ones that can get a disease by hereditary. Again, show me some publicaly written proof about the misleading statement you have made. I have no idea what the actaual numbers are, but 2% isn't realistic, f there are healthy people out there, doing and eating all the right things, and still getting high blood pressure, diabetes, and high cholesterol. Diet, in many cases CANNOT change choleserol levels if the person has a history of these conditions. 2% is way off. Your 'studies' are biased and their origins are based only on what your writing here, with no real evidence in the real world. Maybe you should go on TV and tout a way for everyone to become healthy and have no diabetes, high cholesterol, or other hireditary diseases. IT looks like your an 'armchair expert'.

When you rile me, you may be going in for a long battle..

To: ksrogers

This is my last reply to you in this thread. You seem unable to comprehend what I write. Research has shown that only 2% to 3% of people with abnormally high cholesterol inherited that health problem. It's not a common inheritable issue. It is common to have learned poor diet choices from our parents. The other 97 to 98% of people with high cholesterol have the problem due to diet and inactivity. Is that simple enough for you?

YOU SAID: "... there are healthy people out there, doing and eating all the right things, and still getting high blood pressure, diabetes, and high cholesterol."

Yes there is, but it's rare for a healthy person, of normal weight, eating all or most of the right things (we all have junk-food occasionally) and getting exercise to suddenly develop these diseases without some predisposing factor. Don't you watch TV or read the newspapers? This is nothing new. The biggest predisposing factor in our society is diet and inactivity caused obesity.

Rile you? I get riled when people try and discourage others from a healthy lifestyle and healthy diet. When people try and blame genetics for everything and refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. I saw what poor eating habits and inactivity did to not only friends but family members as well. Those of us who remained active, kept our weight down and ate a good diet are still here, many of those who didn't are already deceased. That includes smokers as well as those who laughed at a good healthy diet and getting off the sofa to take a walk.

I have looked for the study where I read about hereditary cholesterol several years ago. I cannot locate it since there are thousands of health related websites out there and I don't have time to search each one.

Your statements are invalid, confusing, and innacurate. I repeatedly asked for some tangable proof of the 2% (now up to 3%) of people who have these diseases handed down through their family tree. Actually, its more like 30%-40% of people contracting these if their parents or even older parents had the same diseases. To make a statement about a figure of 2% without published reports, is not a valid number. Some smokers live to be 100 years old, with no cancer. I have a friend whos son died of leukimia at the age of 20. No cancer s of any kind, or smoking in her family. It was a sudden thing and he died just 2 months after he was diagnosed.