Melly, tomato seed should be started 6 to 8 weeks before last frost. Unless you are there to protect them with specialized equipment, they should not be transplanted until the soil temps are consistently in the 60s---usually about two weeks after last frost.

There are several ways you can set up a self-watering system. I don't know what's available over there, but in England you can get capillary mats made specifically for that purpose.

I would look into such systems.

You might also post this on the Vegetable Gardening and Tomato Growing forums for additional insights.

Your in Z 8, so seed starting can be done very soon. I start mine in Z 6 about the beginning of March. By the end of May they are quite big and rready to get hardened off in the greenhouse. In Z8, you can probably start planting in mid April or sooner.

Lad, I didn't really want to get into the tomato forum. I'll admit it, they intimidate me a little, lol. We have to grow the plants in containers if that makes any difference. It is an interesting climate here. We get very little temperature swing during the day. The good thing for me is that doesn't go below freezing a whole lot.

Melly,

I'm a zone 5/6 container (exclusively) gardener and grow in a hollowed out place in the dense woods that starts just 10' from the back of my house. Tomatoes are second only to hot peppers as to what I grow. Very familiar with the gardenwebbie tomato folder since late 90s and don't go there anymore either.

And am sure could bore you to tears with container tomato growing advice.

6 weeks before plant out for tomato seed starting and 8 weeks for peppers is a general rule.

JohnT

I am in Zone 8 too, but I am sure there is a LOT of difference in the Netherlands and Texas Zone 8. I will start mine about the first of February under shop lights but someone must be able to water them when they start to get dry. I transplant and grow mine in 5 gallon pots.

Nefer,
Once mine are too big for the lights (one foot tall), I have to move them to some 500 watt plant lights and water almost every day. When watering, after about 3 inches tall, I use a mild fertilizer specific for seedlings. They seem to do very well once they get over a few inches tall. I even get petunias and impatients flowering in about 3 months from planting seeds.

I grow a lot of hot peppers because that is a hobby of mine and I do much the same as you do. Tomatoes really would be happier in a 10 or even 15 gallon container but 5 gallon is a big as I can handle.

> I plan to grow tomatoes from seed this year after last year's dissapointing store bought tomato plants.

Melly,

What varieties are you intending to grow?

My two fav are Marianna's Peace and Sungold. The MP will get to maybe 3/4 lb when container grown and 2 lb in the ground. The flavor is even better than the fabled Brandywines, Cherokee Purple and other popular heirlooms. I'm not into the sweet types so am biased as to flavor. Sungold (Sun Gold) is marketed as a hybrid, but I don't think it is. Dehydrating SG with just a dusting of Creole seasoning is about as good as gets for dried fruit snacks.

It's not very hard to set up a gravity fed drip irrigation system using silicone or plastic airline tubing and plastic or brass t-valves common to tropical fish hobbyist shops. Takes a few days to get the drips just right, but with a good growing medium like ProMix BX and a container with good drain holes it's hard to mess up even with more water than necessary. But I must admit that a reliable neighbor would be better.

jt

I use the winter sowing method shown on the Winter Sowing Forum and will be planting mine outside in milk jugs in early February. You might want to check out the forum - read the FAQs and try a few seeds that way. They're a very friendly group, and I've had a lot of success with the method.

After many odd kinds of produce being produced from store bought plants, I prefer to start things like peppers and tomatoes from known seeds. If I like a variety, I usually save seeds from some of these. Most of the time, I do get some decent tomatoes from the saved seeds.

Oh man, I can't remember what varieties of seeds I have. I have some packets left over from two years ago. My understanding is that tomato seeds will stay good for a while. And a friend brought back some seeds from Italy. I remember for sure San Marzano, Opalka and Riestentraub. The latter as a freebie thrown into my order. I also have some cherries and I don't remember what else. I went to look at the packages to see the names. Apparently, they were in the way and I moved them to the infamous "safe place". I better start looking for them!! I'll have to think about the winter sowing.

My dad has left me over 10 pounds of various vegetable seeds. I also buy some every year. Once in a while, I forget what I have, so end up with lots more that I started with. In any event, seeds that sprout for me, can be from packets up to 10 or more years old. Sure, they don't all sprout, but thats why I start them indoors. Under ideal conditions, you know pretty much whether a seed will sprout or not, in about 2 weeks. If not, plant another in the same pot nearby the original. When I go through my pots every few days, there are usually only a couple that fail, and get a new seed. By the time some of them are about 3-4 inches tall, they are usually all sprouting, if I have replanted a few. I like the San Marzano, its my favorite for sauces. I also had grown a type similar in shape with the pointed end, but huge in size. I saved some of its seeds, but many do not grow into the same sized fruits from their saved seeds.

If I had one wish, it would be - try to keep better records of my seed savings.

A few years ago, I decided to give the heirloom seed saving routine my best. I save seeds every summer from the plants that I feel had the best yield. But - then I forget which heirloom it came from. So when seed starting comes, I find little paper towel folders that have marks on them like "paws" or "large slicer" or maybe "golf ball size cherry" then there's "marble sized cherry."

But perhaps in a year or two (I just turned 85 a week ago), I will have learned to be better organized!

Also this year, I now have a whole tray of "paws, large slicers, golf balls and marbles" all growing nicely in 8 little yogurt cups. Under usual circumstances, they would all have been outside in a sheltered spot getting "hardened." But because of the recent cold spell (down to 30's) it just seemed a little cruel.

I then placed them back under the flourescent lights, and turned the heat off in the pantry. So - my strategy is to harden them off in the cold room. I had to slow them down somehow and they have now stopped "clinging" to the bulb in search of more, more, more.

Last year I planted out too soon - and we had a heat wave. Do wish this global warming thing would make up its mind.

Just my 2 c's.

Bejay

Hi Melly and Everyone,

I am in NC on the VA border in Zone 7A ( I think)

I start mine outdoors in coldframes anytime between Feb 15th and March 15th. Depending on what my gut tells me. I am in a tricky location, only 35 minutes from Greensboro but 10 minutes from VA. So, I have to becareful I don't set out my plants too early or all my time investment is lost. Sounds like you have similar temps and time frames.

Good luck with your tomatos.

Susan in NC

Hi Melly, I see that you've had your question answered but wanted to chime in as well. While trying to start seeds for the garden shouldn't be more than 6 wks out from last frost, I've had good results starting at 7-8 wks for my container plants. I start several varieties known for their earliness for containers and can move them to safety if the weather doesn't cooperate. I can usually get super early tomatoes this way to hold me over until the summer slicers kick in. Stupice and Kimberly are 2 that come to mind, tons of golf-ball sized fruits and tasty, too.
Tomato seeds DO last for years, btw.
Winter sowing is an option too, as a previous poster has said. The people on that forum are extremely nice and patiently answer any and all questions. My only problem with this way is that the winter/spring around here is very finicky and can't decide what to do most of the time. My seeds tend to sprout too early during a warm spell and that still leaves me with the question of what to do with them when they get too big for the sheltered milk jug or whatever container you are using. I've had good luck winter sowing cool weather crops like cabbage, collards, etc. but not so much tomatoes and peppers. People swear by it though, so maybe my experience is unique. Doesn't hurt to try a few that way. Good luck and let us know how it goes. Lori

Lori, there are all sorts of season extenders you can use to protect early plants from weather mistakes. Row covers, poly tunnels, etc.

Tender plants (i.e., tomatoes, peppers, eggplant, etc.) needs protection from two things: extreme cold, and wind. It's that second one people often forget, and that's what get them.

I find it just as easy to forget playing with our non-existent springs, and just transplant the seedlings when they should go in---which usually means May.

Right on about the wind. It won't be that many weeks until people on pepper forums start posting about "diseased" seedlings that are actually wind damage. Leaves will be twisted, discolored and often pointing somewhat up instead of normal position. Tomato seedlings are less affected by wind and cold than peppers. Subject a pepper seedling to cold weather and it will slow growth for several days. Tomatoes seem to bounce right back. Peppers are more tender as seedlings, but much more cold resistant at end of season than tomatoes. More and more people seem to be going to poly tunnels.

Anyways, I like to use camo netting for hardening off seedlings on my deck. This is from Cabalas and normally used for camouflaging a hunter. After a week or so the netting can be removed and the seedlings won't suffer sun damage.

Not shown in previous picture, but I use tarp to block wind in the back and also for rain protection over the top. Grommets make it easy to position and tighten down using nails for the grommets to slip over on one end and bungee cords on the other. I now have custom made clear tarps that can rain and wind protect the entire deck.

My seed starting methods are of course unconventional. LOL But sure work well. Some day I should make a photo gallery that shows what I do.

"Hardening off' is usually done in natural sunlight. Its what makes the leaves and stems get a little pale and the leaves get stiffer. You will not be able to harden off any seedlings under a grow light, no matter how close they get to the bulbs. Mine get put out in a small greenhouse once they are headed to the garden for planting. They stay in the greenhouse for about a week or so. Once planted in soil, they are less prone to shock, sunburn, and wilting losses.

Ken writes: > You will not be able to harden off any seedlings under a grow light, no matter how close they get to the bulbs.

Total agreement. I have high pressure sodium and metal halide bulbs and have used the best florescent tubes available. Tropical fish hobbyist forums are a great source of lighting info BTW. (and the pot-head sites)

I have my eye on the small greenhouse below. (even though would have to stoop while inside)

jt

Here is a link that might be useful: greenhouse

Lad, Good to know about the wind. We get plenty of that here. It was fairly impressive the other day. They sent the children home from school early because they were worried about the busses.

John,
As to that greenhouse height. Here is a suggestion. Build up a 1 foot high foundation of concrete blocks to hold the greenhouse frame above the ground. On the inside, go down a few more inches and put in a brick floor with sand as a filler between the bricks. I electrified mine with a single 4 foot outdoor type flourescent fixture with two 4 foot bulbs, as well as weather proof outlets. The wiring was done with PVC tubing used for electric outdoors. The wiring also as a GPF in the circuit to protect against grounding problems. In summer, I have fans running as well as leaving the door open. Mine also has an oil filled piston that will open the center roof panel to allow air to flow out too. Building the greenhouse up on blocks a foot high, and with a deeper floor inside, you can increase the inside height by about a foot . I also have a 6 foot long wooden bench inside that is narrow enough to get through the 2 foot opening of the door. Not only that, the greenhouses usually have aluminium channels that are the framework and these usually have slots for specially made screws that push into the slots and lock in place. Then, I place the shelf brackets they use for closets, and put a foot wide 6 foot long board on the opposite side of the bench. Mine can hold about 20 of the 18"x24" plastic plant trays. Check out Charleys Greenhouse Supply in Washington state.

Here is a link that might be useful: Charley's Greenhouse supply

You're welcome, Melly.

We gardeners often don't realize the actual culprit, particular when things are new to us.

In early season it's wind, more than cold, that can destroy tender seedlings.

In the greenhouse, controlling heat is more of a problem than avoiding cold.

We probably could no a whole thread about it's not the X it's the Y.