John,
The link doesn't work, but I found it anyway. Since the description says that is "made by vermont farmers (and cows)" I'd think it is realy dairy. I wouldn't think that powdered cheese would melt. Here's another source that has more flavors but is slightly more expensive. I'm sure Ken will be along shortly. Seems like he has used the cheese powders before. I'm sure he has a source.
Melly

Here is a link that might be useful: powdered cheeses

Thanks for telling me about the link, Melly. It worked for me in preview pane but expect because my browser had it cached. Ahah.. the link was to a shopping cart that timed out. The link below should work. Check the price of that Parmigiano Reggiano. Holy smokes!! I think I pay $10-$11 and that is exactly the cheese that I would like to powder.

jt

Here is a link that might be useful: Go to page #2

Melly,

What a great link! You've already provided me with I think everything I need to know.

What an idiot I am to not realize there was no moisture to melt.

Thanks!

jt

I wonder what the shelf life is for powder cheese?

Page # 2 link didn't work either..
Powdered cheeses are made by removing most of the fat and all the water. It has a very long shelf life, and without moisture or fat to get it to absorb, it will never really melt in any form of heat . Its primarily used when making sauces like cheddar, Alfredo, dips, and even spreads. I sprinkle dried white cheddar on microwaved popped corn while its still steaming hot. Because of the hot moisture some of the powder will cling to the popcorn. A local popcorn company (Smart Foods) has a process were the popped corn is sprayed with the white cheddar powder, but the powder has been mixed with an oil, so it will stick to the corn. Below is a site where I get the white cheddar powder, as well as the orange cheddar powder, which is a bit more salty. Both are great when mixed into macroni and cheese. I also buy a cheddar type used in making sausages. This type melts at a higher temperature of cooked meat. Its great in beef and pork sausages. I still have about 2 pounds left from a 5 pound bag I bought during the early summer. Recently, I made some 1/4 inch thick hamburger patties, and placed a couple of spoonsful of the diced cheddar on one patty and placed another patty over it, then ran through the press again so they would be sealed together. It grilled really well and when I cut into the burgers, the cheese was oozing out. The high melting temp cheddar cheese (finely diced) comes from the following- http://www.butcher-packer.com/pages-productinfo/product-342/high-temp-diced-cheddar-cheese-1-lb-bag.html

Here is a link that might be useful: Ingredients store

Ken writes: > Page # 2 link didn't work either..

What a very poorly set up website! To time out a search result is just plain stupid. Don't really care as won't be ordering from them ever anyways. From home page I entered 'cheese' on their search feature.

Dang, Ken, is there anything you don't know something about?

jt

Ken, how do they make it? I'm guessing one can't make it at home. I would be willing to use cheese powder in home cooking like you do, but it's too bad most packaged food has all those preservatives & anti-caking agents too.

I love Smart Food popcorn. I usually buy a bag for the 8-hour drive to my parents' house, and every time I eat some I clean my hands by scraping the cheese off my fingertips with my bottom teeth, then sucking them clean. Maybe someday luxury cars will have tiny sinks in them. :-)

Melissa

I do the same thing with the Smart Food cheese coating, The BJ's bags of Smart Food popcorn are huge. The Ingredients store has this same white cheese as a powder, as well as the 'Cheeto' orange type cheese, which is a bit more salty. No, you just don't have the equipment at home to extract the moisture and fat from the cheese to dry it out. Its heated and sprayed (atomized) in a hot chamber, to get it to dry. I even have powdered beer, and powdered wines, not to mention powdered tomatoes, spinach, and beets, and a few others. These are great to add to home made pasta dough too. They already have sinks in RVs, but you can't wash up while your behind the wheel..

Just call me 'worldly'. I have had so many hobbies and projects, I think I must be defined as a Jack of all trades, and you can finish the rest. Canning, cooking, baking, gardening, tropical fish keeping, computer and printer repairs, and building same, plumbing, consumer electronics repairs, electrical wiring, car repairs, and the list goes on.. Two years ago, a guy came to fix my oil burner furnace, and got 'zapped' by a live wire we though was off, even though all the switches were off. After he left, I did some wiring checking and found that when oil burner was originally wired, they had made a mistake and connected the return/ground wire to the switches. Shutting off the switches only disconnected the grounds, and if you touched metal on the furnace, you got a belt if you touched the wires. Needless to say this condition existed over 40 years ago when the house was built, by supposed licensed people. It took me about 10 minutes to correct their mistake and now, when the switches are off, there is no power going to the furnace. Some of my jobs were designing and building high vacuum systems, TIG and MIG welding., working with high voltage devices (up to a million volts), epoxy casting, and so much more I could fill many pages.. Heck, I even had to assist in open heart surgery and anesthesia of a big dog, that was being used for some medical equipment studies for real time imaging of the heart in an MRI system.

Ken writes: > No, you just don't have the equipment at home to extract the moisture and fat from the cheese to dry it out.

Ken,

So I should just buy the powder? I wondered about extracting the fat.

JohnT

My brother will take sharp cheddar cheese, slice it to about 1/4 inch, and run it through a food dehydrator for a few hours, then grind it all up in a food processor. He uses it to sprinkle on his famous pasta dishes. It is surprisingly good. The grinding up and sprinkling and then eating should be done with not much delay.

Well, I think that I'm going to give it a shot. Bought 1.4 lbs Argitoni Parmaigiano Reggiano ($10.27/lb) and 2 lbs BelGioioso Asiago ($4.44/lb) bricks this morning. My 2 fav cheeses at the moment. They both shave to nice thin curls on one of my graters and will be able to put screens on the trays instead of those plastic fruit leather inserts in my Snackmaster. Had planned to do more chipotle peppers in adobo sauce and pickled green jals as have run out of those powders, but am thinking their aromas would taint the cheese taste.

It's winter here and the humidity in my drying room is 50%. This means that I can dehydrate peppers at 115°F instead of the 125° required in our humid summers. I'm just guessing that it will take 2 days to dry the cheese curls to powdering stage. 3 days max.

I'm concerned now about the fats, not having proper equiptment etc in Ken's last reply. Should I dehydrate at a higher temp? Is this going to be unsafe no matter what? Perhaps have to keep in the fridge?

Yes, Asiago is a great table cheese, It was served on all the tables at the famed Mama Leone's Restaurant in Manhattan. I know, I brought home a chunk of it years ago from there. Too bad the restaurant is gone, but at least I have their cookbook. When I buy the Parmesiano Reggiano, I usually get it at BJ's. The cost is sometimes less than $10 per pound. Once in a while a supermarket has it for about $8.50/ pound too. When I grate it using my Oster grater disk, I place it in a big Food Saver container and pull a vacuum on it, so it keeps for months without getting dry or moldy. The commercial heat/dry process helps to remove some of the fat by the way its sprayed once melted. Its like removing the butter solids from Gee, and tossing out the fat, and saving the solids. Keep in mind that most cheese melts at temps about 140 degrees or higher, so if you turn up the heat, you may be melting out the fat, hence the cheese.. I would expect it would dry better if it was set at only about 110 degrees, just so it will not actually melt and separate. In cheese like Parm, there is only about 10-20% moisture content, but with softer cheese like munster and some cheddars, its higher. One way to help keep the cheese from spoiling before its dried is to add salt, or brine dip/rinse it prior to drying. It will add to the salty taste though. Today, with all these snacks coated with cheese mixtures you could make your own coatings using things like tomato powder, mixed with cheese and some dried herbs (hot peppers?) that are in powdered form. Think 'nacho' popcorn, and nacho potato chips..

This is taking forever!! About a week now and still a lot of oil when you stir through the cheese. A couple days ago I put in my grinder and ended up with BB size chunks and smaller. I started at 135° and turned down to 120° after grinding. Just now stirred and turned up to 125°.

The 135° was working quite well and the cheese was not melting. Tomorrow will reevaluate and might turn up to 130°.

My Nesco Snackmaster dehydrator runs 15° hotter than what is indicated on the settings dial. I constantly monitor temps with a probe.

The flavor of the almost dried cheeses is still quite good, but not as good as a fresh slice. I have some ripe C. chinense pods on my overwintering plants in the basement and think will pick today and put in the dehydrator. They are pale yellow color and should blend in with the dried cheese very nicely.

Ken writes: > ...tropical fish keeping...

Me too. For many years kept a 125 gal and several smaller tanks. Especially liked the cichlids & still remember the Latin descriptors of many of them. The common Convict was one of the most personable of the lot, but regular fin black angels were hard to beat for shear beauty.

Really anxious to get some cheese powder and hot pepper powder mixed together and sampled.

jt

You may have to blot up the oil/fat.. Its going to get rancid if its left in there for too much longer. Oils will not dry out much.

Used to be the president of the Boston Aquarium Society, a hobby club that has been around since the 1900's, and now meets at the NE Aquarium in Boston. An old charter member had over ten 300-500 gallon tanks in his house and raised angle fish, both regulars, and black lyre tails. What a sight when you put your hand up to the glass. I used to raise paradise fish and also grew tons of water sprite. Sold off all the stuff once I had to move. The paradise were bubble nest builder like a Betta (siamese fighting fish).

This is not going well. I don't want to lose any of the intense flavor by blotting up the oil. Where I think I went wrong was transferring from my custom screens to the fruit leather trays. The screens allow air flow to top and bottom of the cheese. I can't detect any rancid taste yet.

So.. I've learned 135° is too hot & not to use fruit leather inserts.

I transferred half of each from the inserts back to the screens and will run another day at 125° just to see if helps and will then probably discard everything because is so old.

Is rancid oil toxic or does it just taste bad?

If its rancid, it will have an off odor and taste. Its not poisonous, but would make the cheese flavor odd tasting. Keep in mind that if there is oil leaching from the cheese, the oil will not dry out like water does. It will just remain, or drip through the screens and drop onto the heater and/or fan of the dehydrator. Once at room temps, the oil will re-solidify. This is animal fat, so be careful if its turned rancid.

Ken,

Thanks for the rancid answer. I was about to throw out the whole mess and start over. I still might throw it out.

Yesterday I tried two new things. One batch I mixed with very well dried old hot pepper powder and a couple tsp flow agent. The other batch I mixed with panko bread crumbs. Ran both through my little mill and back into the dehydrator. Set the heat to 120 instead of the 130 had intended though. Both were improved, especially the one with the flow agent.

I think there is promise with both ideas. I didn't use a whole lot of the panko crumbs and think I could use quite a bit w/o altering the flavor.

This might work yet. I'm going to do one more day at 130 and more than likely start from scratch tomorrow.

Some times adding a little bit of cornstarch will help to prevent clumping too. Because a 16 ounce jar of the white and orange cheddar powder isn't too expensive, I prefer to use those. The high melting temp cheddar I use in sausages is already finely diced, and will hold up to grilling.

Ken,

I did throw everything out and just finished starting anew. Dehydrator was registering 127° and I left it there.

Cornstarch sounds like a good idea. I really think the panko bread crumbs will do the job too if I use enough of them.

I know it's probably silly of me not to just order some cheese powder, but just have to let this play out. Don't want to use offensive language here, but even my friends say that I am the most anal person they have ever known. I'll see this to the end and overdo it for sure.

jt

New batch is looking very good at 18 hours. No melting at all and because on screens instead of fruit leather trays are drying top and bottom with no oily residue evident. Put a lot less cheese per screen. Temperature seems to have settled out at 129° and will leave it there. The actual temp is 15° higher than what says on the settings dial.

BTW, my dehydrator heater and fan is on the top. A very ingenious design. The air is forced down tunnels (for lack of better word) at the sides to the very bottom where is then drawn up to intake at center top to start cycle over. I think is a brilliant design and worthy of the Love2Troll seal of approval.

Frying pan splatter screen:

Cut off the handle and cut out hole in center with Dremmel Tool.

Wally World... very inexpensive and perfect for the task.

I have something similar for herbs. Its a plastic sheet with 1/8 inch punched holes on the whole surface. This insert is placed inside my round trays. I have no fan in mine, just a round heater coil non adjustable. Its a cheap Ronco model, but works fine for my needs. Even though your drying the water out of the cheese, you somehow have to also extract the fat. Fats will not evaporate, and must either be chemically removed or blotted in some way. I think they put the cheese in a big centrifruge to allow the liquid fats to extract from the solids.

> Fats will not evaporate, and must either be chemically removed or blotted in some way

I need to think about that some.

Anyways, I would very much like to keep the fats.

I'm a seed saver too & once again have very strong beliefs in technique. (go figure)

Thanks, Ken!
jt

Don't want to jinx myself, but these new batches are going very well.

Took out the Parmesano Regianno and there was no oil whatsoever on the outside. Ran it through my little powder mill and it looked good. Added equal volume of panko bread crumbs and then ran the mixture through the mill. Poured out and spread on the screen for final day of drying.

The Asiago had considerable oil on the screen and under the much larger shredded pieces. Even so, a trip through the mill made for a nice coarse grind. Added panko crumbs, ran mix through the mill and back onto the screen for drying. This is going to work, but will take 4 days instead of 3. Next batch will concentrate on a finer shred to start with. The harder Parmesan grates to much smaller than the Asiago.

The temperature in the dryer has creeped up to 131 from 127. Going to leave it there, but as always will continue to monitor with thermometer probe.

Now I need to think about what hot pepper powder to add to it for hot cheese powder. I want the cheese flavor to dominate. And I would prefer the pods to be yellowish like the cheese. I have a very few ripe datils, orange chiero & habs in my basement right now, but am afraid they would overpower. I have a good stash of dried powders, but most are smoked and not sure want to go that route yet. This may be the place for a capsaicin extract. No flavor, but extreme heat. Soak some panko crumbs in it and dehydrate. Will ponder that.

Wish me luck!

JohnT

I just recieved some dried green chilli powder in the mail, from a place in Texas, called Chipotle Peppers. The bag bursted in the shipping box and was just loose inside the box. Was not packed very well, as it was everywhere. The shipper must have used the box as a football..

At only 2 1/2 days the Parmesano Regianno is ready! Very, very pleased with the results. Going to store in tightly capped pint jar with some color-indicating silica gel beads until decide how to add some heat and possibly other flavors that would go well with cheese.

The Asiago looks great too after a run through the mill. Will give it one more day or at least 12 hours.

The panko crumbs turned out to be a good choice. I wanted something that wouldn't add unwanted flavor to the cheese. Perhaps rice cakes would have worked too?

Will be so glad to free up my dehydrator as want to do some more pickled green jalapeño and Chipotle jalapeño rocoto garlic sea salt in adobo powders. I was afraid that if did at the same time as the cheese that the cheese would be tainted with the strong odors.

One happy troll here!

> The bag bursted in the shipping...

Ken,

I got a package in the mail Saturday from a dear chile-head friend in NY. A very carefully packed Priority Mail box with bubble wrap, foam beans etc. Enough hickory smoked venison jerky (hot!) to tightly pack two quart jars, other hot sauces and many packets of smoked hot pepper powders. Unfortunately...

What can I say about shipping methods, nothing positive for sure.. I guess that glass bottle should have had maybe 6 inches of bubble wrap around it, along with being triple packed. Can you imagine ordering a 50 pound bag of an expenisve fertilizer only to see an empty box show up by UPS.. Somewhere between here and the supplier that lost 50 pounds help somone...

Cabot Creamery of Vermont makes a Cheddar Powder. It's available through their website www.shopcabot.com
It's great on popcorn and might be what you are looking for.

I belive that the Cabot cheddar powder is the same one used on Smart Food popcorn (also made locally in NE). Its sprinkled on along with a trace of oil to help it stick to the popcorn. Its cheddar flavor is distinctive.

I think have the drying cheese for powder down pat. Awesome flavors and I don't think will need a flow agent at all. Just ground the Asiago to powder and was super!

Now to find seasonings to add to it. I just this morning received a couple dried pods of Dorset Naga (arguably the world's hottest pepper) from a friend in France and am wanting to add something similar to the cheese powders. Unfortunately the DN is red and I want white or yellow. It also is very aromatic and strong flavored. Yellow Rocoto would be just right. All my YR powders are smoked though. Oh well...

It feels good to succeed with drying the cheese. Thanks all!

If you want a dash or tomato flavor, they do sell tomato powder, as well as spinach powder, you can make a basil powder, and also many other compliment flavors added to the cheese powder. Ingredients Store has the tomato powder and is really high quality.

John,
I didn't think the French even knew what hot peppers are, lol :) Seriously, that it is not a common ingredient there.
Melly

Ken,

The tomato powder sounds like a great idea. I'm very opinionated about what makes for a super tomato and have a lot of '05 crop frozen whole & can dehydrate. I need to think about the basil & will probably try just a touch. I grow a couple varieties about every other year, but don't have any frozen or powdered at the moment.

Thanks!

Melly,

My chile-head friend from France is half Polish. (which would make one think even less inclined to like the heat. LOL) I'm 1/4 Polish myself. 1/2 Norwegian and the rest English/Irish/Scotch. Certainly not of ancestry that is familiar with cooking with hot peppers. While stationed in Germany was introduced to shaslik and more importantly the Indian curries during my 3 visits to London. Been hooked ever since.

Not going to bash France here even though will never drive though it again.

It's so amazing how cooking and gardening draws so many of us together.

Be well!

jt

The tomato powder I have is used in some of my sauces that need thickening. Its like a tomato paste but totally dry. I did find that once the basil starts to flower, the leaves get bitter tasting. I used to like to grow the giant leaf basil as each leave was over 6 inches across. But , again, once it fowered it wasn't as good. About the most flavorful is the smaller leaf Genovese type. This type only grows to about a foot to 18 inches tall and is more like a small bush. It seems to set flowers a bit later, and things like Pesto are great, when made with the Genovese type. Years ago I tried growing other types like Thai and purple, but they just didn't do well here.

Ken,

The giant leaf basil and The Genovese are two of the several varieties that I've grown. The Genovese is what I recommend too. My Genovese was larger plant than what you depict though.

jt

John,
Glad you didn't bash France! I was the only one who showed for French class today and I received an impromptu lesson on making crepes. Can you believe I've never made them before? Actually, France has definately opened up culinarily. It is possible to dine on things other than "French" food. The Dutch on the other hand, as traders extraordinaire, like spicy indonesian cuisine. But Dutch food itself is very similar to German food. Now, I'll stop hijacking your thread. I'm glad your cheese powder is working out.

Melly,

You can hijack any of my threads at any time you want. My buddy had a girlfriend in London (she's now his American housewife) and we made the drive from where stationed (50 Ks south of Frankfort) 3 times in '66. Only two ways to get my old VW to England via ferry... Calais, France and Ostende, Belgium. The French treated us like dirt at every opportunity. My friend is a very gifted individual and spoke perfect French and German. Didn't matter as no one in France would understand him. One trip through France was more than enough. I have a great chile-head friend that lives in France this very moment.

Holland. The people were all sooo friendly. Lovely country.

I just mixed a dried yellow C. baccatum powder with the Asiago at ratio of 1 to 3. Not bad. It's a start. Keeping with the yellow theme. I know I have a jar of "sun dried" sungold tomatoes someplace. Can't find. A very flavorful grape tomato that would be just perfect if further dehydrated. It might be better if I just stuck with the cheese and hot pepper as I want the cheese to dominate.

And I have some panko crumbs with drops of capsaicin extract in the dehydrator now. Might work.

jt

Visited Paris back in the 1970's and found it to be the most unfriendly place, compared to visits to Zurich, Vienna, Amsterdam, and Copenhagen. After 5 days in Paris, I was happy to leave. Hotels in Paris have no idea what a sight seeing tour is, and if you ask people on the street if they speak English, they reespond perfectly by saying' Sorry, I don't speak English!" I was amazed at how well the person said it, even without an accent of any kind. The only friendly people are the school kids, as I had finally met someone that knew where things were and wanted to learn more English (they are taught it in school).

Ken writes: > Visited Paris back in the 1970's and found it to be the most unfriendly place, compared to visits to Zurich, Vienna, Amsterdam, and Copenhagen.

Did not make it to Switzerland. Austria, Holland, England, Denmark, Belgium, Sweden and Norway, yes. My ancestors (am half Norse) were from Norway. When they weren't raping and pillaging they were making lutefisk. A strange lot to be sure.

Had an incredible Army career. Never have heard of a better one for a 3 year tour. Got a notice of intent to draft at end of sophomore year college (chem major) and enlisted for 3 years just to somewhat control my destiny. Chose the most needed MOS at the time and did very well in the medical corps as Chief X-Ray Specialist. Last year in Germany I was 3rd ranking NCO in a 500 bed evac hospital company. We did everything on paper because had virtually no personnel due to Viet Nam and I only "worked" 3 days at most a week and only for a few hours at that. No formations, no inspections, unlimited pass, no restrictions, no nothing. Lots of time to sightsee. Just fill out reports saying that we simulated this and that. We traveled constantly on 4-5 day trips. Many in my company had full blown afros and shoulder length hair.

Not the typical army experience for sure!

jt

Things have changed a lot it seems. Many more of the French speak English now and don't seem as offended to use it. I have been told that if you don't say bonjour when entering an establishment that it is considered rude. Pretty much opposite of how an American would perceive things, don't you think? As the daughter of a salesman, I wouldn't imagine it the customer's job to iniate greetings. Anyway, apparently cracking that code helps. All the folks we met in France (and the French folks we have met in the Netherlands) seem to be willing to put up with my dreadful mangling of their language. It is funny but in our travels we have decided that Germany isn't terrifically friendly. They seem to be a bit of a dour lot, but we think our lack of German language skills has something to do the perception. I consider the Dutch to be friendly. That probably has something to do with their (generally) open minded culture and near universal English language skills.

That was a most unusual army career to be sure. We are having fun. Spring seems to be our travel season. We have lined up a week skiing in Bavaria in Feb(yeah! it finally snowed), a weekend at Disneyland Paris in March, a week London for spring break (Easter), and a 4 day weekend in Paris at the end of April (Queen's and Labor day). We have another 4 day weekend for Ascension Day. We are still deciding where to go. We'll be broke by them time summer rolls around. Then we can recover a bit before a week in Ireland in August with my sister and her family. We may try to fit Normandy in before Ireland and take the ferry over. Tough life, no?

I find your dehydrating experiments very interesting. We plan to get one when we move back.

After Paris, I must say that Zurich was very friendly. The hotel we stayed at was beatuiful and the staff were bending over backwards. We ate in a resturant in the center of town that was like your parents house, mom (the waitresses) would give you anything you wanted. Food was out of this world. In Paris, I had, was supposed to be a hamburger, but tasted really odd. It was either not aged meat, or was something other than beef. Quite bloody, and not like you normally see.

John,
Gee, what nice time you had in the military. My brother joined years ago and loved Korea, he was in charge of the AFKN there for almost 2 years.