You might check Coenosium Gardens (or email for more availability) for Thuja occidentalis 'Mini Spiral' or find it somewhere else? Perfect plant for the "Hinoki look." If you do decide you want Hinoki's, you need to be sure that they are (grafted-only) onto either Platycladus or Thuja occidentalis... otherwise, their root systems will not perform well in Missouri clay + heat. They'll be toast. So, any purchase, you'll need to find only grafted plants of Hinoki.

Some other options:
Pinus densiflora Low Glow
Pinus densiflora Globosa
Pinus densiflora Ratta

Pinus resinosa Don Smith (more flat-topped 3-4" per year - 10cm) (any Pinus resinosa)

Pinus strobus Sea Urchin
Pinus strobus Horsford
Pinus strobus Merrimack

Pinus heldreichii aka leucodermis cultivars:
Irish Bell
Green Bun
Smidtii

These spruces should do just fine in your climate:
Picea pungens 'Wendy' (any Picea pungens)

Picea abies Hildburghausen
Picea abies Pusch
Picea abies (Kellerman's) Blue Cameo

Dax

hey

go to the link.. bone up on the conifer intro ... note that minis grow around an inch per year ... then peruse the entire site for enjoyment.. especially the pix.. and then find the american conif soc and peruse those pix.. in case they are not the same ...

but do understand.. being trees.. conifers have the potential to live forever .. and at the INTRO.. you will learn about annual growth rates .... and barring problems.. most conifers will grow at their annual growth rate forever ..MOST HEIGHT ESTIMATES ARE AT 10 YEARS ...

so if a plant grows 1 foot per year ... it will be 10 feet in 10 years.. 20 in 20.. etc ...

and that is why minis will 'fit' just about anywhere ...

and that is why.. dwarves .. lol .. which can grow up to 6 inches per year.. can get really big inside a decade or two ...

mail order is about the only way to go.. unless you have access to an upscale conifer nursery nearby.. or one that will order stuff in for you ...

also at the BCS .. they have a database.. where.. on any given cultivar name.. you can find some info on that annual growth rate

happy new year

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

Thank you, I'm going to be spending a lazy afternoon looking up all those plants and links.

My next question would have been where to find them, I'm not sure there are any readily available around here, but I'm going to look in the spring. I did find Fairweather Gardens online for pines. I don't want to pay high prices for really big plants, but I don't want to get seedlings in 3" pots, either so it's hard to know where to order online.

My beginning choices for pines were Pinus parviflora "Arnold Arboretum Dwarf", or "Banshoho" Dwarf Japanese black pine. Any ideas or experience with those two? I know black pines will grow in this area, we had one at our former house.

I also found Chamaecypris Hinoki "Rigid Dwarf", and arborvitae "Holmstrup" which looked as if they might be promising for upright varieties, I might have spaces for two or three upright conifers. The rest should, I think be lower shapes.

Blue Spruce and dwarf Albertas are about the only spruces that seem to live and do well here, but neither are suitable for my garden. I do love the look of spruces so I will consider the ones listed.

I do understand about the difference between dwarf and mini, and the 10yr growth estimate, which is why I always look at the ultimate height. I don't want to be cutting anything down in 15 years and they can't be too big because of the cypress. I've been trying to look at more than one description of each one at different sites as I find that the sizes vary depending on who is telling it, lol!

We don't have clay soil here, btw, it is upland rocks. There is a saying here that if you don't see the mountains (the Ozarks) dig down three inches and you'll find them. I do have pretty good soil with lots of compost(between the rocks) but it is very dry in July and August. We are in zone 6b with microclimates of z7.

@Ken, I wish someone would point that info out to the layperson who buys a 'dwarf' conifer, planting it by the front door or against the wall. I see them on my walks and shake my head! The best example so far is the guy who has lined the garden path with Goldcrest! Boy is he gonna have fun walking down that path in a few years!

which is why I always look at the ultimate height

===>>> you missed my point.. there is NO ULTIMATE HEIGHT ... they just keep growing at that annual rate.. but for extreme age ... when they MIGHT slow down ...

resin once said.. that a redwood quit growing at something like 387 feet.. because it could no longer pump water any higher.. due to the effects of gravity ... but at 10 years.. it may have been 15 to 25 feet tall ...

but then.. on the other hand ... whose going to be around in 200 years to find out about those you plant ...

have fun at the link .... i have mail ordered there often .. look at teh golden ghost pine ... its to die for ...

also google:

foxwillow ==== http://www.richsfoxwillowpines.com/
iseli nursery
Coenosium Gardens per dax
and forest farm

just to read and learn ...

now.. you said: but I don't want to get seedlings in 3" pots, either so it's hard to know where to order online.

===>>> most of the true NAMED plants.. are GRAFTED ... not SEEDLINGS ... the time and expense of grafting.. is not going to make them cheap .... especially if you are looking for any type of size ... a lot will cost 25$ for a one gal pot with a 8 to 12 inch plant ....

other plants can be rooted.. like the Cham you referred to ... and those are much cheaper .. and very few picea glauca ... BTW.. its imperative that you use the latin names .. learn it now ..

but most pines, spruce, etc.. all have to be grafted from the named mother plant ....

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

One thing that site doesnt mention is the spread of the tree, i.e. the width. Not all conifers are narrowly conical, in fact most dwarfs are the opposite! How many times have i come across a mature juniper thats spread all over the rockery they were planted in!

Well considering I am already in my late 60's, I doubt if I will be here in 200 yrs to see full growth on anything, lol! I do get the point but after about 20 yrs, I probably won't much care.

I don't mind paying $20-$40 for a decent sized plant. I just don't want to pay that and find that it is only 6" tall when I get it, unless it's a mini, and I really am not interested in paying a lot for a rare tree, I just want to see some neat looking small evergreens in my perennial bed. I'm not after amassing a collection of conifers, I already do that with hostas and ferns!

I do know Latin names, sometimes I just get lazy. When I get serious about it, that is all I use.

Greenlarry, many have been the times I've seen blue spruces that were so cute at 3' planted next to a door, and then in twenty years, it is pushing the house over. Same with arvorvitaes. One on each side, 10+' across and 20' tall.....as a landscaper in my former life, we have removed many of those mistakes.

And yes, width is important. For upright trees, I need narrow. Punctuation, not obliteration!

@Ken, I wish someone would point that info out to the layperson who buys a 'dwarf' conifer, planting it by the front door or against the wall.

===>>> a wild exaggeration as an example ... i like to sum it up this way ... if momma is 387 feet tall .. a dwarf of her could be a mere 250 feet tall ....

but its all about how long it takes to get to 250 feet ...

a large plant doing it at 1.5 feet to 6 feet per year ...

a dwarf doing it in 6 inch clips ...

our version of time really means nothing to trees .. eh???

ken

Exactly ken. The annoying thing is the customer may well be ignorant of the facts but theres no excuse for the sellers nit to advise the customers!

Look for Thujopsis dolabrata 'Latifola' a nice low
mounded plant with good foliage.

blue yew, I did look for pictures and didn't find very many, the only place I found it listed for sale was Glasshouse Works, but as a small plant. I'll keep that on my list and look for it locally. I do like the looks of it, found the pics on a thread you started on GW a while back. It might be only marginally hardy, here, tho, it seems to be a plant that likes the coolness of the Northwest climate from what little info I can find about it.

Another rare one to try but may take a bit of searching for
Thujopsis dolabrata 'Plicata'

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