With this kind of material and planting each is a specimen and needs to have plenty of room around it. Crowding will produce bald sections and deformities, as well as a crowded appearance. Think of it as a miniature version of a larger landscape, each little treasure a feature unto itself - like widely spaced full-sized trees in a full-sized landscape.

If you wanted to spend the money bun-like and other bushy looking ones could be arranged into drifts of one kind, closely spaced, as one might do with normally sized shrubs. This would result in less of a candy assortment/jewelbox effect. But who's going to do that with expensive little collector pieces like these?

If a tree is going to get large, I'll generally plant it in its perminent home. If (the reality is when) I crowd a bit, I may put smaller growing trees nearby to fill in some because they will be easier to move when the time comes.

tj

Hi firefightergardener,

I can relate to your situation. I have some areas that I am trying to fill with conifers, other areas where I'm trying to fully screen less-than-super views, etc. Ultimately, it's a personal choice. I've chosen to space my conifers according to their estimated 10-year dimensions. Some areas look really sparse/goofy now and I know I'll have to do some thinning down the road.

In some cases, I've been able to put baby conifers that I find susceptible to sun/wind burn underneath existing plants that they will eventually replace. The old/ugly plants provide protection from the sun and wind and also prevent that "itty-bitty plants plopped in a big open space" look. But that situation is, obviously, temporary.

I think you've asked an interesting question; I wonder how others make their choices. I suspect gardener age plays a role, as well, as I certainly don't care if a plant be too big in 100 years...that's the next woman's problem :-)

Although it's a shame to have to cut down a nice big specimen because it was stuck in a spot where it cannot remain. All those years of development are then lost.

In nature, where the climate and site supports forest vegetation a whole bunch of trees come up where a clearing or gap has occurred. Soon these become crowded. In time perhaps most are killed by the competition and other factors, so that in 250 years when the forest qualifies to be called old growth - and might be considered fully developed - the assemblage of individuals may be rather different from the original herd. A broad range of age classes may have developed, with some tall and large older trees surrounded by many younger ones. This all varies with the history of the site. Here, where fire is a big factor there may be really big and old trees only along the stream running through a stand, with the rest of them much younger. And so on.

The point of all this is that your planting is going to show the same kind of pattern. Although dwarf and slow-growing garden conifers in this case most are getting started at about the same time, will be roughly about the same size at planting and if closely spaced will form a sort of crowded thicket that cannot be maintained in its entirety over the long run. If not renovated periodically, many of the specimens will be lost eventually.

The way to get an attractive effect with them widely spaced for long-term development is to plant shorter or otherwise different companion plants between. In a suitable climate and soil heathers would be chosen, along with related dwarf plants like dwarf rhododendrons and others of alpine character. The drifting of miniature conifers I mentioned earlier, while probably an extravagance financially would produce a similar effect to a drift of heather.

I plant close, but I don't use just conifers - I have a VERY mixed garden. But I do have conifers cheek-by-jowl with each other. I figure I'm going to lose some, and others won't be so nice as bigger plants that I'll need to keep them all. In short, I plan to cull some, or move them, which will accomplish the continual renewal that BBoy is talking about. But I do try to delay that by layering plant shapes - I plan for them each to occupy a different layer in the same airspace... ground cover beside bun-shaped with something arching between them, backed by fastigiate... or whatever works for the space. One classic strategy is to plant short and tall (say, ground cover and fastigiate) right next to each other when they're small, so they in essence occupy the same spot but can co-exist.

Learning to prune (for shaping) could help keep your conifers snuggling quite happily for many years. And of course if they are snugged up, you can't see their brown spots.

KarinL

the key is the annual GROWTH RATE .... you can find such at the ACS database .... plus what you start with ....

if a mini grows one inch per year .... it surely doesnt need to be put 10 feet from anything ...

if a dwarf grows 3 to 6 inches... well you are going to have to give it more space .. comparatively speaking ...

etc ... on intermediate and species ....

i tend toward the logic of .. plant something that will make your toes curl for about 10 years.... and then get rid of it.. and start over ... if it out grows the space .....so i guess i use spacing under such logic ... no use buying things that FIT... just because they fit .... buy something special ...

but then.. things die.... the one next to it matures into something really ugly ... etc ...

so think about your garden in 5 or 10 or 20 years .... and truly understand ...NO GARDEN IS PERMANENT ... the real beauty of minis... is you can pretty easily move a 15 year old plant ... it isnt going to be all that big in the future .... but you dont want to try moving the bigger ones in a decade or two ... plan the backbones of your garden .. but dont worry too much about the smaller stuff ...

my best advice .... there is no season for conifers .... get out this winter.. to a professional arboretum ... and instead of focusing just on the plants ... focus on how they spaced theirs .... you dont mention where you are.. if you did... we can probably recommend such .... if you are within 2 hours of hidden lakes garden in tipton MI ... just north of adrian .. it would be one of the best road trips you ever took ... in regard to conifers.... link below

i have planted various shrubs.. and daylily and iris in between plants [the plants that most gardeners share for free] ... just to take up space.. and provide some interest ... if and when the plants need the space... well ... you know whats going to die ... lol ... they also can live with as little care as an established conifer ....

good luck

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

I've uploaded some photos I took today(though it's a crummy weather day for sure!).

Please feel free to comment, positively or negatively on the distancing I've selected. Of course I should probably list the specimens - I'll work on that - . My end goal is to have a snuggled close conifer garden of many different shapes/colors and textures.

Mostly mini's. The larger two on the left are Sitka Spruce 'Papoose' and the other is named Green Arrow, though the name of the species escapes me at the moment.

http://img530.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1020129dd2.jpg

From left to right:

Picea Glauca 'Sanders blue'
Juniper 'Old Gold'?
Abies Magnifica 'Nana'
Picea 'Blue Nest'

Purple Columnar barberry & Spirea Sunrise? behind. Both have been there about five years now, they seem to be slow enough growing to not crowd too much.

Juniper Kalebab
Japanese Maple 'Sharp's Pygmy' tucked in behind
Picea Mariana 'Aereovarigata' at the far right edge

http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1020130dl5.jpg

A lot to list in this picture, so I'll just list the dwarves. The really small ones are all miniatures.

Abies Pinapso 'Glauca'
Cedrus Deodara 'Snow Sprite'
Picea Abies 'Pumila'?
Abies Magnifica 'Nana'
Abies Koreana 'Silver Seedling'
Cedrus Deodara 'Devinely Blue'
Picea ... 'Nidformis'?

http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1020131xd9.jpg

and the view from down the driveway a bit:

http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1020132kn8.jpg

Yeah, you got bit real bad by the conifer bug. In time you will need to move that inner border back to about the center island to make room for the plants you have. ;-) You've picked some nice plants and I like the obsidian. Have you been to the ACS database to see some pictures of mature specimens?

tj

For example...

Here is a link that might be useful: Green Arrow

I'm jealous.....what a beautiful assortment of conifers!

This thread has been very interesting.... I try to plant with 10 year dimensions as a guide and then fill in with my favorite heucheras, smaller clumping sedges (carex) or grasses and non-aggressive ground covers.

Barbara

oh come on ... be honest... do you really need that grass????? .. it would be such a showcase to your house.. to have just the conifers....

you will become an expert at transplanting .... still dont know where you are.. but the ONLY key to transplanting is.. TIMING .... and then aftercare ....

and one trick ... a lawn chair ... an adult drink .. and one hour... if you develop a problem ... sit there and figure out how to move the LEAST number of plants to open it up ...

e.g.: the neighbor had 3 plants ... planted too close together.. elderly ...so to space them out.. they dug up two .. and replanted... then i stroll along and say.. i hope you just moved the middle one... to the end.. and only had to move one... they laughed and said no .. they struggled moving two .... well .. live and learn ...

good luck

ken

Hi again,

Ken, I live near Seattle, Washington. Pretty nice weather for conifer and maple growing. I took out three conifers today from my strip-bed along the driveway. I took some of the advise and do want a lasting planting. When I get some of my other projects finished I'll post pictures of those as well.

Thanks for all the help!

Will

I'd agree that the spacing is too tight on many of these and you will become very adept - as Ken notes - on transplanting techniques :-) One of the hardest messages to convey to design clients is the need to be immediately conscious of the mature size of the plantings and space accordingly - it may look sparce to begin with but refrain from stuffing new plants in what looks like an open area....it won't be for long. If you must, fill with annuals or perennials that are easily removed. But it's a nice start to a great collection.

Both from a design point of view as well as with an eye to the future size and placement of many of these, it may be a very good idea to consider removing the lawn (if neighborhood covenants allow). Front lawns, espcially in the PNW with our usually dry summers, are an outdated landscaping convention that really serves no purpose and typically eats up huge amounts of resources and chemicals to look good. As a matter of fact, there is a current thread on the NW Gardening forum that discusses this very issue. And take a close look at some of the recent photos posted by bluespruce to see a great conifer garden with complimentary plantings......and with a minimal use of lawn (of course, he has a much larger property than most suburban Seattle area homes).

And FWIW, both the 'Hellmond's Pillar' barberry and the spiraea will get signficantly larger than they now are :-)