Hi Kim,

I was hoping that someone would come along and answer this for you......I'll tell you some of my experiences.

I don't really soil test....I had some problems when I first started gardening here with the soil and all I did was add lots of amendments. Evenually that worked to straighten things out. I added lots of purchased compost and manure and peat. I was given a load of cow manure one year and another year I was given a load of horse manure. Neither of these single loads were enough because my garden is sooooooo big.....but it all helped for the end results.

Here at the garden center, they offer free soil testing once a year. They just use a pH meter and mix some of your soil with distilled water. I have the same meter that they use.....I used it to test the pH of my aquarium waters. I don't ever test my garden soil.

My soil in the back started with sand...as it was fill. The regular soil on the rest of this property is clay. I've treated both the same with the amendments..and it seemed to work just find.

Are you sure you need to test the pH? Are you having trouble growing some plants in some areas?

Sorry not much help
Sierra

I wondered about an aquarium test kit too. I have seen them at pet stores and even Walmart. Can't help you with experience tho because I have never tested my soil. I suspect it's slightly alkaline but not enough to be a problem.

Sierra do you have fish too? My mollie had babies last night and I saw it! :-0

The PH meters would give you a ballpark reading...and give you an idea of relative values around your yard. You do need to calibrate them with distilled water.

If you get one...consider taking one area and sending a soil sample to a lab. Before sending the sample, test a portion of the sample for PH with the home meter and compare results to the lab's. This will give you an idea on the accuracy of the gadget.

My gardening areas vary from sandy to clay to silt to loam. I agree....soil testing can get mighty expensive when you have dramatic differences in soil types and want to know PH or other info about your soil.

I suspect the quality of the PH meter is fundamental to its accuracy. Translated that means the cheaper ones will probably not be as accurate as the pricey ones.
Jan

Northspruce......I have a masters in fish. Well thats not the technical term of course.....but you know I like to keep things simple!

Currently I have one fish......his name is Sicle.....as in Popsicle......I rescued sicle from a small pond last fall. A friend bought a house and with it came a small pond...she didn't know that sicle was there even....the previous people left him. The nights were getting cold and the little pond was freezing over.....then one day my friend saw something brightly colored move in there....and called me a couple days later when she remembered again. So off I went to investigate and sure enough there was this 3 inch single tailed goldfish in there. Of course when I got there...the little pond was covered with 3 inches of ice....I managed to lift the ice enough to net the fish out. So now you know how he got his name.

Which reminds me, I have to go buy some fish food. LOL!

The aquarium pH test kit wouldn't work because it works on a color comparasion chart....the soil will muddy or change the color of the water....enough so a true reading couldn't be taken.

Opps getting this thread a little off topic...sorry.
Sierra

I just google searched "soil pH testing meter " and came up with a lot of hits of all qualities and prices. Seems they're quite common in the forestry industry, too but I'm not sure what type of forestry supply companies there are. Maybe this will help?

Shauna

Hey! No talking about fish on the Far North forum, Sierra, B.F.Sc., M.I.F. (Batchelor Fish Science, Masters in Fish) whatcha thinking LOL

Just wondering, but if you added the soil to the water and waited overnight for it to settle out would the aquarium meter work? The water gets clear if you leave it (as I recall from Grade 8 science class) but maybe that wouldn't give the pH reading of the soil... don't know, just a thought.

Hahahahaha...nope none of those...try adding the word ichthyology somewhere in there.

The pH meter will work for soil testing....just add some distilled water and some soil, swish and test with meter..it should give you a reading that is fairly close.

its the aquarium pH test kit that won't work for soil testing....I thought you meant the ones with chemical drops, where you match the color the water turns to the color strip.

Who's talking fish? not me.......

Sierra

Sierra, the only time I had my soil tested was many years ago and it was very acidic. I've added lime but need to do that every fall I think? My strawberries don't produce a lot and many of them are misshapen (nubbins). I'm thinking I should add lime to that bed and see if it makes a difference.

Hi Kim,

I am not sure if you would have to add lime every year. try adding lots of ammendments. Compost and such.....you will probably find if you add enough ammendments your soil will even out. Do not add peat as it is acidic too.

To make your strawberries produce more...in early spring fertilize with 10 52 10 about every two weeks until you see lots of flowers.

The misshapen strawberry problem....well I have heard several different things....I don't know which is correct and which isn't. One thing I have heard is that inconsistant watering or even to much watering can cause this. I have also heard that its genetics and to just pull those plants. I don't know .....but I have this problem with some of my strawberries too.

Sierra

I've been adding lots of compost, will continue to do that. Thanks for the tip about lime, I didn't know if I should add that every year or how often. I know peat is acidic but I'm thinking the other advantages offset that, I definitely need more friability in my pure sand. I garden organically 99% of the time so can't add whatever 10-52-10 is, do you know an organic equivalent? I use milorganite and fish emulsion, and whenever I can get chicken manure for the compost.

I don't know what the organic equivalent to 10 52 10 would be.......but I use turkey trot... and sea weed.....both are bought mail order from T&T. Your local garden center might carry both of these. Don't use to much turkey trot...it makes things lush and green....but a little goes a VERY long way. The sea weed can be watered in or used as a foliar spray on plants.

You can use steer manure, and mushroom manure as well. I buy my compost.....because I can't make enough for what my gardens need.

Sierra

10-52-10 is a high phosphorus fertilizer. Add bone meal to whatever other organic fertilizer you are using to give that extra phosphorus boost.

Kim do you recall how acidic your soil was when you had it tested? On highly acidic soils it may be necessary to lime every year or at least every other year. However, when trying to change PH, it really is rather necessary to monitor the PH. You sound like an excellent candidate for a quality PH meter with periodic soil testing by a lab. Wood ash also will up the PH and add micronutrients plus a nice dose of potassium. Once again...you really have to monitor the PH when adding wood ash.

Do you grow blueberries? They thrive in very low PH soils. Azaleas and Rhododendroms also like an acid environment...but are a little iffy in zone 3.
Jan

If it's just strawberries or a few other plants you are having trouble with, maybe you could build one or two raised beds and bring in topsoil?

If my soil was acidic I would grow blueberries.... mmmm blueberries :0) Oh and Jan, I have been informed that there are some rhododendrons that are reliably hardy to zone 3. Don't remember which ones.

I believe it is the PJM Rhododendron that is hardy to zone 3. If I am wrong someone please correct me.

Syreeta

It is PJM, developed in Finland. How well it does in zone 3 seems to depend on where you are in zone 3. Does well about 150 miles south of here where it is a rare winter to see -35F ....still designated zone 3. (more like 3b/4a?). Around here in the northern part of zone 3 (more like 3a or 2b), I have never seen a decent blooming specimen....not even in the towns where it might stand a fighting chance. Perhaps if coddled with winter protection it might do better....but still marginal at best. If I lived in a more hospitable part of zone 3, I would grow it for sure. A specatcular plant in the spring when in full bloom.
Jan

The last soil test was 4.9, but that was ten years ago. Definitely time to do another. I always thought wood ash would lower pH? Maybe depends on what type of wood was burned. We burn mostly oak, and since I think those leaves are acidic, seems logical the ash would be too? I quit adding coffee grounds to the compost, found out they're acidic. Next year I will pull every strawberry plant that has nubbins, that'll teach 'em! LOL I don't grow blueberries, would need a field of them to satisfy me. Don't think I have any acid-loving plants.

Kim, ashes from plant material are very alkaline, that is what they used to make lye for soap in the old days. Lye can even cause alkaline skin burns. If the species of wood/leaves makes a pH difference, I have never heard about it.

Jan, I thought I saw someone from Alberta post pics of their PJM rhodo blooming this spring. I could be wrong. I remember being told I could grow them but I haven't actually tried.

northspruce.....I tried growing a PJM rhodo and it didn't make it through the winter here.

Sierra

Northspruce - you are correct. It does not make any difference what wood is burned in terms of adding wood ash to garden soils to raise the PH.
From a technical/chemistry point of view, probably ash from hardwoods would be a better alkalizing agent. Makes sense. The denser the wood, the denser the cell structure the greater the amount of potassium. That is why, when available, the soap makers of early years preferred to use the ash of hardwoods. Less ash was needed and less fiddling around to leach out the potassium in the form of potassium hydroxide (KOH = wood ash lye) at a concentration that would float a potato.....their unique way of testing the specific gravity!
Jan

I've got red flags going up everywhere. I'm sorry but I have to disagree with both of you on the use of wood ash. In my Master Gardener program, we concentrated a fair amount of effort into learning about soil amendments, organic and inorganic mulches and the benefitial/detrimental effects of them. Wood ash was discussed at great length because it is something that many people have quite readily available as a home source from their fireplaces and firepits.

We were advised to never use woodash, in no uncertain terms, because of its extremely detrimental effects on the soil - high in salts and alkalinity. Now, at this point, I concede that Alberta generally has alkaline soil and the best amendments for our soil is to add sphagnum peat moss, compost and composted manures. However, there are areas, where the soil has become too acidic - under a very old spruce tree, for example. In these cases, it is suggested that a homeowner always get a certified soil test to ensure a) that the soil is too acidic and b) that the proper amount of alkaline amendment can be determined. I will not profess to know anything about soils outside of my own region. For that matter, I will not profess to know much about soil science overall. Therefore, advice should be sought locally by anyone suspecting they are having pH problems.

The recommended amendment for us is lime but only based on a certified soil test and in the specified amounts. Wood ash is definitely not recommended because it can, in very small quantities, cause sterility in the soil by raising the salt level so that nothing will grow. Sawdust is also not recommended because it can deplete the nitrogen in the soil.

"Not all of the above are recommended by Colorado State University. These are merely examples. Wood ash, an organic amendment, is high in both pH and salt. It can magnify common Colorado soil problems and should not be used as a soil amendment. Don't add sand to clay soil -- this creates a soil structure similar to concrete."

"It is best to have some knowledge of local soil conditions before adding any amendment. Some examples of trying to do the right thing with the wrong materials follow. Wood ash is high in both pH and salt, which will magnify common Arizona soil problems. Adding sand to clay soil will create adobe. Adding sawdust without other amendments can cause a severe nitrogen deficiency."

These were just a couple of quotes from several articles that I found regarding the use of wood ash. In contrast to my opinion, I did find a couple of articles in favour of using wood ash but the recommended rate of application was no more than 20 lbs./1000 sq. ft. and only after having a soil analysis completed and the wood ash tested for possible toxins. "How much is 20 lbs of wood ash? Is it fine ash or coarse ash? How thick is 20lbs. spread over a 20' X 50' garden? Once or twice a year or can I do this everytime I clean my fireplace?" How many fires does the average homeowner have per year - only Christmas day or one every night? Far too many variables. "Oh, and I've been using a few of those logs that last all night, too."

This is only my opinion, but to me the use of wood ash is far too controversial to mess with. The average gardener is not able to assess how much wood ash would be "safe" to add and could very quickly sterilize their soil to the point that nothing would grow. My reason for rebuttal is that by recommending the addition of wood ash on this forum, someone with limited experience in gardening could add their firepit ashes to their flowerbeds all year, thinking it is OK. The following year, they cannot get anything to grow and wonder why. At this point, the only option is to haul away the soil and start again. I just don't think this would be a very welcoming introduction into a hobby of gardening. Soil analysis should be done by qualified soil consultants that are able to assess the proper amendments necessary to remedy the specific situation. And soil is so region specific that a forum as diverse and widespread as this one cannot possibly be helpful. I'm certainly not trying to be controversial or stir up a hornet's nest, but I just think we need to be very careful about what we recommend as additions to someone's soil. Without soil, we cannot garden.

Shauna

I would never add wood ash to my own soil because it's already alkaline. I was only supporting the fact that it has a high pH, not that it should be added to soil. I'm the first to admit that I don't know much about acid soils.

However, I do take exception to being told not to add sand to clay soils. Every source I have heard cite "adobe making" with clay and sand came from Arizona or New Mexico so I can only imagine there is something specific about their clay and/or climate that allows it to turn into an insoluble brick at the addition of sand. I have added sand with organic matter in varying ratios to several beds in my yard and the results have been looser, better drained soils. Shauna, I don't take exception to your presenting scientific articles. But I have been snapped at (by others not from the Far North) about the adobe thing in the past and I do defend my successful experiences.

Shauna you can lower those red flags. Perhaps your MG program, in an attempt to emphasize the importance of not adding wood ash to alkaline soil, went a little overboard in villifying wood ash? Perhaps they were trying to make a very strong point that wood ash was an alkalizing agent and not an acidifying agent? It is very common for people to think adding ash will acidify soil.

Most of the western states, like the Prairie Provinces, have alkaline soils. Some, like parts North Dakota, are downright sodic. So, I found it most interesting you would take a quote from a western state's Extension Service which is surely going to warn the general public not to dump wood ash on already alkaline soil. No one on alkaline soil wants to make the problem worse!

But...keep in mind, Kim, the original poster is from northern Wisconsin and stated all her soil is sand based and acid. This is the predominate soil type in northern Wisconsin. The University of Wisconsin is a better source of information in this case. Here, in part, is what they say about the sandy, acid soils of Wisconsin.
"Wood ash has been used as a beneficial agricultural soil amendment for centuries. Many of Wisconsin's soils are naturally acidic and low in available potassium. Depending on the source of the ash and soil test recommendations, a wood ash application may satisfy a field's fertilizer need in the year it is applied. In addition to its value as a substitute for lime and macronutrients, ash can also supply significant amounts of sulfur, boron and other micro-nutrients."

Both Wisconsin and Minnesota have major programs for distribution of wood ash from the paper products industry. This resource is no longer being tossed in landfills but is being placed on ag land with great benefits. Yes, this program went through a testing phase for about 15 years to assure its safety to soil and water. It is literally a boon to those on acid soils. Yes, your soil has to be tested to determine if you qualify for the program. Even the ash is tested. High PH soils don't qualify.....but acid soil is the norm in many parts of these two states. Adding wood ash, instead of lime, to acid soils is also becomming the norm.
A couple of weeks ago, a neighboring land owner came zipping into our yard, flapping three soil tests from different plots in my face. Wanted to know what I thought. I have never seen such awful soil test results. I told him to run, not walk, to the S&W District office and get into the wood ash distribution project. His land qualified, of course, and the land is scheduled for about 1 ton/acre of wood ash as recommended by the University. Since we are going to crop part of this land, we are quite excited about what is to come in the way of yields.

If you read my earlier post where I first mentioned wood ash, you will note I said "you really have to monitor the PH when adding wood ash." I did not repeat that five times because I did not think it was necessary to do so.

I am also confused about your extreme concerns with wood ash adding salts to the soil. Yes, I understand that dumping a whole lot of wood ash on seriously alkaline soil cold make it sodic and unproductive. But...the use of the word salt is such a confusing word to me when it comes to soils. Most elements (some of the calcium in soil is an exception) in the soils are not free elements...just floating around waiting for a plant to suck them up. Most are found as compounds and many of those compounds are in the form of salts. Calcium carbonate (lime), aluminum sulfate, magnesium sulfate, etc are all common soil additives and all are inorganic salts. So...I am not sure what salt wood ash contains that would render a soil sterile and useless.

Soil chemistry is a complex field and the elements in the soil are constantly undergoing change...combining and recombining to form different chemical strings and compounds. A sweeping statement like "wood ash has extremely detrimental affects on soil" cannot be made. It is kinda like saying, because some people are allergic to it, "All seafood is bad and no one should eat it".
Jan

kim 1947 said, "I've bought kits at garden centers (they're basically worthless)"

Could you elaborate.

Does it take too long?

Is it too messy?

Is it too tough to read the results from the color samples?

Are the results not repeatable?

Are the results wrong when compared with mailed-in soil samples?

Are the results too broad (or too narrow?) in values to be useful (do you need a more or less sensitive test)?

Just what makes them worthless?

Thanks,
Jim

I'm particularly interested in home soil pH testing to determine how much lime to add to my clay soil each year. And reluctant to mail in a lot of soil samples every year for the different parts of my lawn with different grasses and plants in them.