Soil test and mysterious jar test results - dying lawn
My original post was at [https://www.houzz.com/discussions/sod-laid-on-clay-now-dying-how-to-rejuvenate-dsvw-vd~4535850[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/sod-laid-on-clay-now-dying-how-to-rejuvenate-dsvw-vd~4535850). As requested I did a jar test and have the soil test results from Logan Labs.
Southeast Michigan, Zone 6b, Kentucky Bluesgrass.
Our house was built 5 years ago. The builder brought in a bunch of soil that has a clay like consistency then put sod right on top of it.
We have sprinklers. They run for 7 minutes twice a day, a total of 14 minutes a day. There is a rain sensor so it doesn't run if it has rained. In the spring and fall I turn it to 60-70% seasonal adjust. I run it for such a short time so frequently because the soil does not really absorb any water. Any longer and the water just basically starts to puddle.
For the first two years the grass was fine. For the last three years it has been on the decline. Summer of 2016 there was a large die off. Lots of dead patches, then a TON of weeds filled in the bare spots. I pulled weeds and tried over seeding, but I am pretty sure I started too late in the season. Some grass came in, but mostly more weeds.
The lawn where we have the original soil looks really great, lush, and mostly weed free.
Every year I put down Dimension as a pre-emergent and for the past two years fertilized with milorganite. I spot treat weeds with 4-Speed XT (2,4-D, triclopyr, dicamba, and pyraflufen-ethyl), though I didn’t this year since I was trying to over seed.
3 years ago I top dressed with compost and in 2016 with a compost/soil mix.
Here are the results of the soil test from Logan Labs.
Now on to the jar test. I took samples from my back and side yard. It came out in hard clumps. I let it dry so I could then crush the lumps into smaller pieces and remove large rocks and debris. I filled each jar half full.
The samples in the large jars labeled “Back” and “Side” I think I crushed up too much. There are no discernible layers. It took 24 hours before you could even start to see water at the top of the jar. What is pictured is after 5 days of settling. It continues to settle very slightly each additional day.
The sample in the small jar is from the side yard. When the large jars weren’t settling, I started the second test. I only barely crushed the clumps. It settled out faster, and there is a discernible layer of sand at 1cm. The total height was 5cm. What is pictured is 4 days of settling. So that sample has 20% sand, 80% silt or clay.
I’ve done several jar tests before for the garden plots, but never had the weird separation like this, so I’m really not sure how to read these results.
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Soil Test Results
Comments (9)What are you planning on growing there? I am not sure why that lab would think a soil pH of 6.58 would be high since that is in the optimal range for most plants, except those that like an acidic soil. Then sample 2 has a soil pH of 5.66 and is listed as optimum and I have not seen anything, anywhere that lists that, for a lawn, as desireable. Everything I have seen on lawns and soil pH would be in the range of 6.2 to 6.8. I would dig in and look at what the level of organic matter was in those soils as well as how those soils drain, hold together (tilth), smell, and what kind of life is in them and these simple soil tests can help you determine that, 1) Structure. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in a clear 1 quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24 hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight. A good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top. 2) Drainage. Dig a hole 1 foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your soil drains too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of organic matter to speed it up. 3) Tilth. Take a handful of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a finger that clump should fall apart. 4) Smell. What does your soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria will be and the nicer you soil will smell. 5) Life. How many earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5, according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that is not healthy....See MoreSoil test results
Comments (20)1. Homeowner, why don't you seed your yard this year with a variety of clovers, white, red and crimson. Don't fertilize, let the clovers grow up, then cut them like a lawn as high as you can set the mower. Do that every now and then to thicken up the lawn and let the clover clippings stay on the ground. After a year or two, till that into the ground. Even better, get some leaf mold or compost, add a little Milorganite (the only fertilizer you would need given your description), and then till it in. Then pick a grass you like and go with it. Try and get your grass seed from a breeder. Try to avoid the old seed that they sell in big box stores. It's garbage. 2. Brings me to a point brought up by another person. The reason Rutgers does what it does is it is using specific breeds of grasses. It doesn't use lousy grass from Scotts or Pennington. These elite grasses are literally engineered to be grown in "so much P and K." So do it. 3. A pound of N in 1,000 square feet really truly is nada. Clover will put more N into your soil than buying it and spreading it. 4. Never forget we live on a planet orbiting through different regions of space. It's certain space dust settles in peoples' yards from meteors and asteroids. That can always explain intrusion of new minerals that you can't account for. Especially since we are in an active solar cycle. Use common sense. 5. KFC is just OK. Popeyes rocks. 6. As you can see, at least one person, possibly two completely can ignore the rest of the planet's fixation on NPK. And succeed. Decide whether you are that, or are you the person who asked about NPK? N is handled by clover. For sure it would fix 1 pound in 1,000 foot square. Just clover. Sandy soil drains fast, so applying something like cottonseed meal to improve your nitrogen would work, but adding fast fertilizer will just leech through the sandy soil. Leastways that's what happens in Florida. Clover seed is way cheaper and more effective over the longhaul than spreading dead plant stuff on your yard. Plus it looks cool and it attracts rabbits. Rabbits are good for yard drama. And isn't yard drama what this forum is really all about? =) 7. You near the buggy racing part of Jersey? Your best organic will be cottonseed meal. Forget the dead rabbits food (living, uncaged, rabbits like clover, not alfalfa). Give your ground what the studs feed on. It's much higher in protein, and your Rutgers extension people can help you. They know horses and lawns. Some of the best turf people in the turf industry are at Rutgers. They know what they are talking about. 8. Compost tea is a superb way to pull SOME of the good stuff out of compost and leaf mold, but do you really have warm enough weather up there to do it right? There's a reason moonshine came from the hills around me. Warm summers, lots of overstory. You don't want to buy compost, it's been sanitized beyond belief. But stables do have fresh manure, and it makes a tea that smells almost as bad as wet cottonseed meal. But I don't know about the public health impact of getting elbow deep in equine poo. Here is a link that might be useful: The Grass Horse Web (GHW), as God intended...See MoreSoil Test Results - Bridgewater, NJ
Comments (12)1) Sure! Any chemically non-reactive organic is fine, and Oceangro fits that bill. I essentially consider Oceangro and Milorganite to be identical. 2) No problem! 3) I didn't know that. Let me revise the schedule below. Since the old lawn is disappearing, I'm not sparing it over the summer. This is likely to cause some stressed grass. 4) It shouldn't, but let's go with hard water from the hose bib next time just to be sure! Revised Renovation Recommendations: Sometime now to May 1: Apply Encap or Mag-I-Cal at 4 pounds per thousand square feet. May 15: Apply starter fertilizer at bag rate. June 1: Apply 3 pounds of potassium sulfate per thousand square feet. June 15: Apply 3 tablespoons 20 Mule Team Borax per thousand square feet. July 1: Apply starter fertilizer at bag rate. July 15: Apply Encap or Mag-I-Cal at 2 pounds per thousand square feet. August 1: Apply starter fertilizer at bag rate. August 15 Onward: Renovate! You can apply Oceangro any time during this process to gently feed the reno and provide a bit of extra phosphorus and iron. October 1: Apply 1.5 pounds of potassium sulfate per thousand square feet. October 15: Apply Encap or Mag-I-Cal at 2 pounds per thousand square feet. November 1: Apply 1.5 pounds of potassium sulfate per thousand square feet....See MoreLogan Labs Soil Test Results advice - high phos., low nutrients
Comments (12)Given the consistency between tests, I don't see too much chance that all four are off, no. Let's begin at the beginning. All recommendations are for everything except the holly, which actually likes soil like this (there are plenty of plants that actually prefer poor soils). For the most part, I won't quote the holly bed in the stuff below. Big point: stop using the compost. It's probably got way too much phosphorus in it. Standard depth of soil testing is 4 inches, so some numbers aren't quite as bad as they look. I'll adjust recommendations accordingly. ME 10-13: Sand with silt, and a nice place to be. Once we stabilize this--in a few years as it's really far off--you can probably test every 2 or 3 years and be fine. pH 4.8 - 5.5: Very low, but not the lowest I've ever seen by a long shot. My own initial test was below 4.8--4.3 if memory serves. We'll fix this under calcium, magnesium, and potassium below. OM 5-12%: Good to extraordinary, and you don't need any more at this time. While I wouldn't mind seeing the Right Bed area come up to match the others, I don't want it badly enough to add more phosphorus! Sulfur 13-15: Completely normal numbers and entirely appropriate. Phosphorus 1282-2187: You don't quite take the crown for highest phosphorus I've ever seen (that was over 2,400), but it's close. Avoid any and all phosphorus sources (hence the recommendation to avoid the compost). Soybean meal is OK as it only contains 1% P versus 6.25% N. However, even with organics, never use anything that's above a 1:4 P:N ratio. That pretty much means soybean meal. Calcium 37-54%: The Right Bed is actually not awful, while everything else needs a serious boost. In this case, with your low pH, I don't recommend dolomitic limestone--use a good calcitic like Encap, Mag-I-Cal, or Pennington Fast Lime. But don't throw out the dolomite, I want you to use that as well to raise the magnesium levels at the same time (just very slowly). Magnesium 4.3-7.1: Low to low-ish. 30 lb/K of dolomitic this year will very slowly work to raise this. It's not an emergency, most plants do OK at 4%, they just prefer around 10 in a soil of your EC. Potassium 1.0-1.5%: Quite low, the floor value would be around 2.5%. I'm actually a fan of being in the 4-5% range. We use potassium sulfate (sulfate of potash) to fix this, which you can get from some garden or landscape stores, or they'll order it for you. Minor Elements: I wouldn't mind fiddling with boron, but you have so many other issues that I don't wish to do that--and I'm not completely sure what will release from the organic matter in your soil. So hands off that for this year. Iron is great, none is needed. Copper 36-60 PPM: These are through the roof...and there's not much we can do about it. Some types of organic matter (manure compost, I'm looking at you, here) will contain large amounts of some elements. Apparently yours had excessive copper. I have to do some research to be sure, but this shouldn't be much of a problem...I hope...however, avoid any copper source, no matter how small. Zinc is also quite high, but that's not a problem. Aluminum is extremely high, but raising your pH will overcome any possible problems from that. It's not an issue unless pH is below 5, and not a severe issue until under 4.5. Recommendations: Now: Apply 9 pounds per thousand square feet Encap, Mag-I-Cal, or Pennington Fast Lime. Apply 15 pounds per thousand dolomitic limestone. June 1: Apply 3 pounds per thousand square feet potassium sulfate. September 15: Apply 3 pounds per thousand square feet potassium sulfate. October 15: Apply 9 pounds per thousand square feet Encap, Mag-I-Cal, or Pennington Fast Lime to everything except the Right Bed--apply 3 pounds per thousand there. Apply 15 pounds per thousand dolomitic limestone everywhere....See Morehennen
7 years agoFor both samples I took them from two spots (two from the side, two from the back). I removed the top 3" of soil, and then took 3" of soil using this tool. I think it is steel. I put the samples in a plastic bucket.
I shipped them to Logan Labs in zip lock baggies. The samples were taken at exactly the same time.
The side yard samples were very near a cedar tree. The back yard samples were some distance from any plants.When I top dressed with compost a while back, the side and back yards were dressed with compost from different sources.
I just took fresh samples and did the vinegar test. It definitely fizzed and I could see bubbles.
I'm reaching out to Logan Labs to see if they still have my samples and if they can perform the ammonium acetate test. Do I need it done on both samples or will one be sufficient?User
7 years agohennen
7 years agoUser
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agohennen
7 years agoUser
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agohennen
7 years agoUser
7 years agohennen
7 years agoI doubt it will change any of the recommendations, but because of the discrepancies in the pH I asked Logan Labs to double check. They re-analyzed the results and now the pH's match. Most of the numbers are the same or close, though a few things changed.
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7 years agoUser
7 years agobeckyinrichmond
7 years ago
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