The soil above should come in at a pH in the neighborhood of about 5.2 - 5.5 before liming. Gypsum has no, or nearly no effect on soil pH, and tomatoes growing on prefer the soil in the 5.2 - 5.8 range, so it hardly gets any better. When you factor in the tendency for soils to climb in pH as they age, you should be just right. I never worry about soil pH in container culture. If a hobbyist tells me, "I maintain a soil pH of ______", or even give a narrow range pH and claim to be able to maintain it, I immediately suspect the veracity of the claim, even if I don't challenge it. As hobbyists, we can generally point the pH in the right direction, and that's about as good as it gets. Trying to maintain pH at any predictable potential is an exercise in futility because of the number of factors that vary by the hour and have large sway on container soil pH. Al

My point was, the ideas you presented aren't ideas that haven't been regularly examined in the light of how they fit with various approaches to gardening in containers. I agree that there are many reasons growers might choose to grow in something fast/cheap/easy, but not very many of those reasons would be related to what the plant would prefer. Surprisingly though, you can make the 5:1:1 mix for about half of what it costs to buy an off the shelf medium in a bag. FWIW, I realize that a good % of growers put 'convenience' at the top of the list of reasons why they might choose a particular medium, and I recognize that as a perfectly valid reason for making the choice. It's not reason enough for me, but I wouldn't presume to know best how to order a stranger's priorities. Obviously, I think the reasons for using a very well-aerated medium, even if it takes effort to make far outweigh reasons for using something like Miracle-Gro media because the opportunity for plants to realize their potential are MUCH better. When you quoted Jodi, you left out the subsequent qualification of her own statement, which cast an entirely different light on what might seem overly broad out of context, but with context - seems reasonable. I also tend to agree, and my own practical experience supports the observation, that substrates with a dominant fraction of peat are much more difficult for the hobby grower to consistently bring along healthy material in. Reinforcing that thought are the thousands of growers who arrive on forum shores marooned by their soil choice, which is usually a bagged mix based on peat and/or other fine particulates. Using pudding in comparison to water-retentive media and asking how much perlite it would take to make pudding drain well is provides a vivid image for the mind's eye, and the comparison is valid enough that I see it used regularly to stress a point ....... and the accompanying qualification of the subsequent explanation is always focused on science & the laws of physics. How thoroughly we qualify the things we say is what people use to determine our credibility. There is no anti-peat hysteria. We work hard to define our experience with media that use peat and other fine particulates as the primary fraction of what we're using. We also express our experiences using media with low volumes of peat and high volumes of other coarse material. Generally, media with lots of coarse material and small volumes of peat shine in comparison to media with lots of peat and little or no coarse ingredients. Finally, I would just say that when it comes to theorizing about soil structure and related topics, in theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. The comments I offer are indeed born of practice. Thanks for providing reason to make me exercise the noodle. Al

SUCCESS !! Thanks to all for advice on pine bark fines as well as on persevering to find them. Waupaca Northwoods, makers of Greensmix, have finally gone to bat for me. (Just took a little more squealing I guess.) Actually, I simply called Jane, their Wisconsin area customer service/sales rep, for the second time. I told her of my failed efforts in finding her product at any of my local stores she had previouslu suggested. I asked if anyone at Greensmix could help me locate some Soil Conditioner and she volunteered to telephone her clients and find some Soil Conditioner for me without me having to drive all the way across Wisconsin to get it. Within an hour or so she called me back with two locations, the closest being less than 100 miles away. (That's pretty good when you live in the boonies like I do.) She found two bags, which is all I need for my first batch, at Walmart in Ashland, WI, about an 80-mile drive. It's on hold. I'll pick it up tonight. By the way, Greensmix is willing to sell their Soil Conditioner to the general public by the 50-bag pallet at $2.56 per 2 cu. ft. bag, FOB Waupaca, WI. I am seriously considering the 200-mile drive to buy a pallet for next years supply. Anybody interested in splitting it with me, let me know. We could meet in Waupaca, pick it up together and split it up. I've also ordered a bag of the Ace mini-nuggets which won't be here til later this month. They are available in a 3 cu ft bag for $4.99, a bit cheaper per cu. ft. than the Greensmix. I'll compare the two and report the diferences, if any. Thanks again to all. Justaguy, we'll have to do lunch on some other occasion, looks like I won't be making the drive to Johnson Creek at this time. Thanks for all your advice. We'll get together some other time when I'm in the area. Thanks again to all. Bob

I've given up on vermiculite. The so-called "coarse" stuff these days is always medium grade, whenever I come across it. I use bark mulch instead. If you can get it graded and delivered, that's probably your best bet, but I've had to use the bagged stuff from Home Despot - not the dyed stuff, this is Mountain Magic Premium grind. There is a good bit of wood chips in there but it hasn't caused a problem. If you have the space, aging it for a few months before use is a good idea for any bark mulch you are going to use for raised beds or potting soil. I live in a desert, there isn't a lot of choice for mulch here.