Can Soggy Spruce Be Saved?

10 years ago

Hi folks,

I have 3 Norway spruce trees - nothing exciting, but they have been here for 75 years or more and they are huge. They are also loved and appreciated.

Unfortunately, due to a ruptured underground water pipe (basement water, not septic or sewage), one of the trees - the one closest to the very soggy ground - is not looking very good. Most of the needles are brown and sparse, although the new growth needles are green. It looks pretty sad.

We have repaired the water issue, which has apparently been going on for more than a year but didn't show up until this spring, and the ground has largely dried out. But what are the chances for this spruce?

Is there any hope it will recover, or should I just plan to replace it? Gosh, it's just so sad.

The other 2 Norway Spruces, while near to the water-damaged Spruce, did not take the brunt of the flooding and they look fine.

I'll let the tree be if there is a chance it can recover. Thanks!

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Comments (5)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
10 years ago
i dont understand...

water at 8 feet deep.. the depth of your basement... harmed a tree????

if an 80 year old.. presumably huge tree .... is mostly brown... and can fall on your house..

GET RID OF IT ...

any chance at some pix???? i would like to know what kind of pine.. and what endemic pine bugs are in your county ...

ken
Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
10 years ago
I suppose there is a chance it will recover....The classic conifers are apparently all about the buds. Can ya post a pic of the branch ends and then the whole tree?

Just for curiosity, does basement water mean sump pump water?

I had a leaky main line shut off valve down by the street. It leaked a few feet under ground and made the area prone to puddling after any kind of rain until the water company came and repaired it.
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Is the area that is turning brown in someway being distressed by lack of sun or space? Are the others candeling when they should? When was it planted? Can you post pictures of this one as well as the others? Sometimes there is winter kill to one and not the others, it could be that. Or it could be a combination of that and wind. The soil although ammended as you say can be a factor. However I am assuming the others are doing fine in the same type of soil. Just wondering if this particular one has different light, heat, moisure exposure.
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I'm very sorry to hear about this bad experience. With the lack of jobs and the economy, suddenly there's a lot of "landscapers" out there looking for work online. I've tried dealing with some of them and they may be well intentioned and ready to work but they really don't know the first thing about landscaping or even good cultural practices. The ones that do... they aint advertising online. Here's what you need to know so that this doesn't happen again. -->Know what to plant that's appropriate for the site. Doublecheck online or here for opinions before plants are selected. -->Know how to plant properly the first time and supervise. In the south, digging ends pretty much by the end of March. If it aint dug by then, hold off until the trees drop leaves and harden off in winter or in the case of evergreens, wait until the deciduous trees do this. Evergreens in general are harder to transplant. -->Do not plant during the summer, especially if you can't water daily until established. -->Even if someone has good feedback/reviews online, ask for references and go see actual projects that they have completed and go by and look at them and try to talk to the owner to verify. If you can't find any that appear to know how to plant a tree, or they are all super expensive, that's ok... just find someone who is receptive to your input and does not claim to be an expert that already knows how to do it. It sounds like the underlying issue here is that you took a cold climate tree and tried to grow it in the south. Then your gardener tried to monkey with it in the heat. Then dug it up again and replanted it. That's enough to kill even a well adapted plant let alone a norway spruce.
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get rid of it.. its not a question of whether it will live.. or recover its a question of how long it is going to be.. before it looks good again.. and that could be 3 to 5 years.. for a TREE that you can replace for under 10 bucks ... and do mind.. ITS A TREE.. otherwise known as a conifer.. and its root system.. should be as big.. if not double.. the size of what you see above.. and when you wrap your head around that.. and look at the pot its in.. you should be able to fully understand.. what its root problem is [pun intended] .... but for bonsai ... trees do not have a long life potential in pots... divest for sure .. ken
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I want to make one comment, peripheral to this poster's question: Two summers ago, it was hot and dry here. Last summer, cool and dry. Even more than two years ago, we were in a rut of having storm systems during the growing season avoid this area. Many tree species and genera showed the ill effects of this protracted dry spell, but none more than spruce. Some died but nearly all showed thin foliage, etc. Along comes this year with record rains, especially in June and July (So far). And the turn-around in the visual quality of spruce is nothing short of amazing. This definitely includes pungens (Blue spruce). Also of interest, to me anyway, is that the endemic problem for blue spruce in our area-cytospora canker-which presents as a gradual death of branches, starting low on the tree and working up, has been notably less severe. This contradicts the usual notion that blue spruce thrives in dry conditions. I just don't see it. They look as good or better now than ever. FWIW, I do know that high humidity over a longish period of time IS implicated in the transmission of this fungal disease. But......I believe that is more than made up for by the trees' having good vigor due to constant adequate soil moisture. As such, I'd expect that the combination of lots of humidity, but dry soils to be the double whammy responsible for incidence of cytospora on spruce. Please note-I am not saying that the OP's tree is suffering from this malady. I've seen spruce exhibit this symptom also, but for the life of me, I haven't yet figured out what the culprit is. +oM
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lionheart_gw (USDA Zone 5A, Eastern NY)
Original Author
10 years ago
Thank you for your answers.

"Just for curiosity, does basement water mean sump pump water?"

Yes, this is exactly it. The house was built circa 1895. My parents bought the house in the late 40s/early 50s. I've seen pictures of these trees from then and they were (obviously) much smaller - maybe 12 or 15 feet high. Hence, my estimate of 75 years or so. They may have been planted in the 1940s (my best guess).

Anyhow, we inherited the house and are fixing all of the problems.

The trees are Norway Spruce. I've very confident of that, especially since Norway Spruce are planted all over the place around here. :-)

The basement water from the sump was pumped out to near the surface of the ground, through orange clay pipe to the front of the house (where the trees are), then through a 90 degree angle and through more orange pipe that runs parallel to the road and down to a catchment basin (creek).

The pipe ruptured not too far from the tree. The ground has been quite soggy there for a couple of years. We couldn't figure out why. This year it became almost a pond, with water finally leaching its way to the surface. After doing some digging, we found the old, crumbled orange pipe.

This spring the tree was standing in water for quite a while. The ground was saturated, then add in snow melt, and it was a swamp. But, apparently, it has been enduring soggy ground for a number of years because the pipe didn't break/crumble overnight.

Anyway, we've been fixing the problems. The ground has dried out. But this tree, aside from the new green growth, has not recovered.

I'll try to get pictures later, but no one would ever mistake me for a talented photographer. :-)
Sequoiadendron4
10 years ago
I would be pretty nervous about that tree. Keep a close watch on it next season and if it doesn't seem to improve, I would cut it down.

On a side note, that orange pipe sounds like terracotta pipe to me and I hope you replaced ever inch of it or you will just have that problem again in the future.
lionheart_gw (USDA Zone 5A, Eastern NY)
Original Author
10 years ago
I took some pictures but they didn't turn out well. It's too late in the day and the sun is going down.

Yeah, Sequoiadendron, thousands of dollars later and all the pipe was replaced. Additionally, we regraded the ground where the water was coming into the basement and added gutters to the part of the roof where water comes off in torrents whenever it rains, and drives into the ground. Hopefully, that problem is gone.

I think I'll give the tree a chance and see what happens in the spring. If it doesn't look promising it will be removed and replaced. It has sprouted some new green needles this past spring, so maybe it has a small chance.

Thank you, everyone, for the information.

Can Soggy Spruce Be Saved?

Comments (5)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis

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Can Soggy Spruce Be Saved?

Comments (5)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis

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lionheart_gw (USDA Zone 5A, Eastern NY)Original Author

Sequoiadendron4

lionheart_gw (USDA Zone 5A, Eastern NY)Original Author

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lionheart_gw (USDA Zone 5A, Eastern NY)
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