Healthy looking top

This post was edited by wannabeGardnr on Fri, Sep 13, 13 at 10:31

The worst part with brown needles.

This post was edited by wannabeGardnr on Fri, Sep 13, 13 at 10:32

Another picture of the top part of the tree showing the need for staking.

This post was edited by wannabeGardnr on Fri, Sep 13, 13 at 10:33

wannabe, I am not making much sense out of your photos.

Could you step back a few feet and take a photo of the whole plant. Post then in the vertical if you can.

This cultivar looks healthy with some drying needles which is somewhat normal and can usually be found somewhere on this cultivar especially if shaded from sun. This cultivar needs full sun at least 8 hours a day. Make sure you give it that.

'Pendula Bruns' is known for its unstable growth habit and sometimes I think it is uncertain where to go. If you want to further train upright just secure a small bamboo stick to the area you want to straighten Use stretch tape found at your local nursery. They also sell plastic covered aluminum stakes is various lengths and sizes. Not that expensive and what I always use.

If a viable plant which I think it appears to be in 10 + years it should look close to this. Go for it.

Dave

Picea omorika 'Pendula Bruns'. omorika is always lower case.

This post was edited by Davesconifers on Thu, Sep 12, 13 at 21:55

wannabe, Dave gave you great advice and see the first photo in the link for another reason to grow this tree: the cones are gorgeous and it is a prolific coner.

I usually let them go wherever they want, but every now and then they take a weird turn and I 'redirect' the leader.

Have fun with it!

Sara

Here is a link that might be useful: Picea omorika 'Pendula Bruns'

Dave - your pics always blow my mind. Gorgeous.

Thank you Dave and Sara, you made me very happy.
I am on an iPad, and the pictures appear straight here. Not sure how to correct it. I'll take another picture tomorrow.
Thanks for the spelling correction. I'm very excited about the potential.

So Dave, as the tree gets taller, I just tie the stake to the top part and let it hang from the tree?

I only found a Velcro tree tie at Home Depot, didn't look in a nursery. The other option was a nylon string. Do you have a link to a product on Amazon, perhaps, so I can see what it looks like?

By the way, Dave I am a big admirer of your garden. And Sara, your blog is lovely. I am a regular reader.

Dave,you are such a show-off...and with good reason!
Gorgeous Omorika for certain.Envious,my friend.Doug

wannabe,

Maybe you should invest in a small digital camera and use a program like Photobucket to post your photos. Then you can get away from the hard to digest sideways photos that are a detriment to give good advice.

You need to secure the stake to the main trunk in several places for support. Then gently pull the top to the stake and secure. You might have to do it in several increments if the wood has taken a set. I am not sure you even need to do this without a photo to see what you are dealing with. As I said this cultivar is somewhat unstable and does not send up a straight as an arrow leader. Regarding mine the main leader has many crooks and turns in it. This cultivar natural tendency is to grow in the vertical and will usually fill in and look straight over time whith an occasional wild branch in the mix that makes it interesting.

Ogcon..I know what you are saying but for those who might think I am showing off...not the case. I post my photos to give encouragement to those who struggle to know what to do and ease their concerns when dealing with an unknown. Believe me there are many. I started not knowing anything about conifers and had plenty of help along the way to arrive where I am now. So I try to give back with advice I know to be helpful. I am saying with photos you can accomplish what I did. It's a learning experience. Something you don't accomplish over night but you will achieve your goal in due time. When you think you are there then you set higher standards for yourself to make it better and the process begins all over again. I am now doing a redesign to incorporate two islands into one. More on this later with photos. Much to do to finish.

Dave

Thank you Dave, your pictures are very helpful.

I was able to straighten all the previous pictures from a PC.
This one shows the bad side. The other side of the tree looks better.

This post was edited by wannabeGardnr on Fri, Sep 13, 13 at 10:38

Yes the leader can be pulled back into vertical.

Aside from that I have other thoughts.

It should be thrown in the dumpster and not offered for sale.

I would return it as soon as you can.

This cultivar is way over grown for the size pot it is in. I am positive this pot is full of compacted root mass and getting it into shape would not leave enough to support growth on top.

Wait till next spring and shop for a fresh one. Have the nursery order one for you. Stay small in the 2-3 ft. range. They just do better and root issues are not a huge concern.

Dave

Dave, this is not more than 3 feet tall, but it is old stock. I will pull it out to have a look at the roots to confirm, and then see about returning it. Thanks!

Yes old and been in the pot to long.

Go ahead and pop it out of the pot to confirm. I surmise it will be hard to pull out. Give it a good drink of water to loosen its grip on the pot.

Send us a photo.

If you decide to keep it then I will send you several how to photos to get the leader vertical.

Dave

Dave, look how right you were.The roots are brown!

Dave or someone else, will you check the picture and confirm that the roots are indeed bad, and I should try to return it?

This one has deadening branches and a very bad rootball. I wouldn't mess with this one. Your Gold Drift looks workable and your Gold Drift should have a 1-year guarantee.

Best regards,

Dax

i swear i answered on this plant.. but its not here... is there another post???

i would not pull back the leader... i would train a new one... from one of the softer side branches.. opposed to the turn it has now...

otherwise.. it looks like a pretty good plant.. it will fill in nicely.. and cover all your concerns ...

the problem with trying to wedge back the hard wood of the current leader.. is that your plant wont be well rooted into the ground.. and you have nothing to pull against ...

as to the techno problem.. your ipad is set to either portrait or landscape.. and when it takes a pic.. it sets that format.. but you are turning it.. to take a better pic ... and that is why I THINK your pix end up sideways.. because GW reads the format it was taken in ... OR!!!! ... i dont know what i am talking about.. lol ...

if there is any lesson to be learned.. its simple... buy a tree with a straight leader... and avoid all this...

the brown roots are normal.. they extend.. white in spring .... and then again in fall .... there usually isnt much root growth in between [i bet someone will argue with this] .... plus.. its tough being abused in a pot.. including cross country shipping.. holding.. etc....

just plant it... and we can work on retraining in very early spring.. before the flush of new growth ... you are way ahead of yourself.... worrying about the leader right now ... get it in the ground..

depending on what you paid for it.. i would not return it ... if this is the only one.. and you just have to have it ....

now i am going to see if i am going crazy.. or there is some other post ... lol

ken

It cost me $50. I can wait until Spring or later if the risk is too high on this one. I have a small yard, house on .23 acres, so can't experiment too much. I have pulled up the leader a few times already. It is soft, won't be a problem. I bought it knowing it is old, as the dying needles were obvious, but I didn't look at the roots like I should have. I suppose some things you learn by experience. But also, I wouldn't be able to judge how bad the roots are without experience. I just went to 1 nursery. I just don't know where else to go locally for conifers beyond the ordinary.

Dax, there is no warranty. Nursery owner said they have 1 year warranty only if they plant it, I asked. But he also said but if you really really think you did everything right and it was the tree, come talk to me, I'm the owner. Not sure how much leverage I'll have with that.

I think your plant looks fine. And P. o. 'PB' has a crazy growth pattern. Don't worry too much about taming the leader. Have some fun with it.

Sara

It cost me $50.

==>>> i would be my shiny nickle.. that most of us were presuming you paid 2 to 3 HUNDRED DOLLARS ...

for fitty bucks.. you WIN!!!

i wouldnt warranty it at that price either ...

i cant believe thats not barely what he paid for it ...

use the planting guide.. plant it PROPERLY ... water it PROPERLY ... mulch it PROPERLY ....

and lets see what happens ....

note the key word up there... PROPERLY ...

there are very few conifers that like wet feet ... in clay 90% of your battle will be DRAINAGE ....

most trees... not just conifers.. like a drink ... and then near total drainage.. and almost drying before another good drink ...

do a perk test.. go dig a hole.. about 1.5 times the size of the pot.. and fill it with water ...

in my sand.. which is perfect draiange.. it takes a minute or two for surface tension to be lost.. and a 5 to 8 gallon hole.. will drain completely in 3 or 4 minutes ...

the problem with bad clay ... is that you MIGHT [all soil is variable.. and only you can see what yours does] .. dig what ends up being a bathtub.. which you fill and it will takes hours to drain.. that is not good...

once you discover your perk time.... THEN you will know.. how to plant and water your plants..

just never forget... tree roots need air.. as much as water ... so creating a bath tub full of water.. is a long way towards failure ...

ken

wannabe,

If $50.00 is all you paid for it then root prune per Dax's instructions and go for it.

There is a 50/50 chance it will survive. You will know next June/ July at the earliest.

Take the leader to vertical as I recommended. Forget starting a new one. I see nothing there to train up.

Dave

This post was edited by Davesconifers on Sun, Sep 15, 13 at 10:45

The Gold Drift is the big bucks, this one he reduced because of the condition. I'm gonna give it a go. Thank you everyone for chiming in and for the encouragement.
I guess I am lucky that our neighbor's yard is lower than hours. The planting bed will be at the border, so the height difference will help with drainage on clay. Once I remove all the mulch left over from stump grinding of old pines, I'll have about 6 to 12 inches to fill up in the entire bed. So I can make it work like a raised bed. I was thinking of digging one feet into the clay, then add 6 to 12 inches of compost on top and mix it together for the top layer of the 6 x 24 feet bed. One side drops about 8 to 12 inches on neighbors side, then slopes down a foot or two. Will that be too much compost for the top layer?

You should till, then top dress with up to 3" of compost over that, then till again. Its primary reason for you is to loosen the soil. You nor anyone should ever change the soil structure dramatically. 6" is dramatic. Not good.

Dax

That makes sense, but how do you guys build a raised bed? What kind of soil mix goes in?

Also, how do I keep the big tree upright on the cone made from loose soil while I work the roots over the cone during planting? Do you lay it on it's side, or have someone else hold it up?

This post was edited by wannabeGardnr on Tue, Sep 17, 13 at 10:07

This is a way I would do it. I am sure others will suggest a different approach.. One for sure.

Prep the area.

Go buy one of those 6 ft aluminum plastic covered green stakes at your local nursery. Also buy a roll of 1/2 inch wide stretch tape. The green colored stuff.

Drive the stake in the ground directly where your conifer will be centered. Build your mound or cone the correct height where root flare is 2 inches above grade. Make sure you compact this dirt so there is little or no give.

Then go to work on the roots as Dax described. When you are finished set the conifer on the top of cone at correct height and stretch tape it to the main leader. Now it is held secure for you to flare out the root structure around the cone.

With the stake driven in the ground make sure it is plumed to vertical. No leaners. Make sure you have enough left to pull up the main leader to vertical and stretch tape it to it.

If you want to build a berm and have no dirt go buy some top soil from your local big box store and mix it in with what you have tilled up. If you have a local source that can supply what is the same composition of soil for your area go for that if possible. Of course you will have to haul it or pay to have done. If your berm is any size at all then I would use that suggestion first. You will have to decide on your course of action.

Good luck. I know this is a challenge for you and after you accomplish this you will give yourself a pat on the back. Also this experience you will retain for the next one. I have a feeling there will be more. I also am impressed with the choices you have made. All will be beautiful specimens.

Also known to be true. Most cultivars 1 gal. and up that are potted are root bound. Even the small miniature ones. The only exceptions are the ones sold in the wooden boxes. My Pinus strobus 'Angel Falls' boxed was not root bound and perfect in every way. Buchholz conifers seem less root bound and their boxed cultivers have no root bound issues at all. Stay in the range of 1-3 gal. for potted conifers. Anything above that is a challenge and usually unworkable and comes with root issues.

I can say this because I have purchased many potted offerings from multiple sources.

Wish I could tell you who the main source of root bound conifers is but I am not going there.

For purchases in the future pop them out of the pot if the nursery will let you. If they won't do it for you move on. Better safe then sorry. Any reputable nursery should always guarantee you a 50% refund if it dies in the first year when they don't plant it. 100% refund if they do. Then I know one that guarantees them 100% no matter who plants them.

Dave

This post was edited by Davesconifers on Tue, Sep 17, 13 at 13:41

Dave, you just made me smile. That's a wealth of information right there. Thank you so much. I feel much more confident now.
"I have a feeling there will be more" :) space! Space! I am eyeing the minis :)