"I suspect I will have no hope to protect some conifers and maples I have planted. I want to save as many as I can though, so any advice would be appreciated".

Screen as many of this years plantings as possible would be my first priority.

The rest you are already doing...mulching and watering when needed.

Dave

hey will ...

very frankly .... I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT ....

your alleged EXTREME temps.. are what we call August in my z5 MICHIGAN ....

i dont understand why it should be a problem for most of your stock ...

and i dont understand how you screen for heat ... i would be more concerned with blocking cooling air movement in heat ...

your plants should be fully acclimated to the sun.. and heat doesnt change such ...

i do NOT water more .... I ALWAYS WATER WHEN THEY NEED IT .... you know that.. proper mulch is the buffer for said circumstances.. that dictates that you should need to be all that reactive in a short heat wave ... even a month long ...

i always say on watering advice...insert finger.. and water when hot or dry .... the issue will be how long it takes the heat to get thru your mulch to start increasing the heat of the soil ... and that is when you water..

so go feel how hot your soil is.. and keep track of how that soil temp increases during your heat wave .... IF AT ALL ....

i have been in drought for 6 weeks averaging in the mid 80's .. 95% in blistering sun .. and i have only watered a couple that i transplanted this spring... the rest are trees.. and supposed to take care of themselves ...

all other stock is getting along just fine ...

i often caution to NOT KILL YOUR PLANTS WITH TOO MUCH LOVE .... and you are basically hovering at that point .... be very careful.. not to over react ....

now.. all that said... there are plants that i grow.. that can not be grown down south .. maybe abies??? .... that might be more prone to heat issues.. but again.. i would wonder about that .. because its just as hot here ..... it might be more an issue of heat plus humidity ... AT NIGHT.. because that is the big difference between lets say GA .... and me

so i guess i wouldnt jump to any conclusions generally about your alleged heat wave ... it more an issue of ID'ing ONLY those plants that need the TLC ....

being a maple hater in general.. and unable to grow 99% of JM due to z5 winters.. i just cant believe a stinkin maple.. couldnt take a little heat... winter is the defining issue .. not heat .... or i am wrong ..

stream of consciousness ... and all .... i sure dont want to see posts from you about a multitude of losses..

chin up.. good luck

live free

ken

PS: dave is in the same z5.. but he does deal with a lot more heat than i do.. so i want to state affirmatively.. i am not arguing with his thoughts at all ... he might be right ...

Fire,

We get that type of weather here in Tennessee quite often in the summer, and so far things seem to be pretty resilient if they have adequate water. Good luck with your watering schedule - hope things turn out well!

K4

"your plants should be fully acclimated to the sun.. and heat doesnt change such '

Not 1st year plantings. You need to get the sun off them especially in the 100+ temps they are not accustomed to.

I am right now pulling two out of the ground I forgot to protect from sun and excessive 100+ temps we had 3 weeks ago.

Both Fincham conifers from the NW. Good stuff I hated to loose.

Dave

Do you a swap for all our rain and cold weather?

;-)

Resin

If you are afraid of these high temperatures and you have soms spare time just after noon, you could try to mist the needles of all your conifers. The evaporation will cause the temperature to drop a few degrees. It will do them no harm at all, they will not burn like the leaves of vegetables or so. Also you could make the ground wet, this will cause evaporation too.....
I think temperatures in the high 90 F will not cause any harm to settled conifers. Perhaps when temperatures will rise to around 40C (103F) and more the heat-stress could cause damage to not so adaptable plants like Abies procera for example.

I feel your pain! I pulled out of the ground this past weekend 4 out of 5 new conifer plantings from the spring and our summer has been very mild this year in comparison to ones from past years. Leaves a sick feeling in the pit of the stomach when you see very expensive smaller plants burned to a crisp. Since mine appeared to be relatively young, I'm thinking they could have come directly out of a green house and never had a chance to adapt since we hit the 90's for several days in very early June before tapering back off to 80's.

Too, twice I have seen Ken's comments re "humidity at night." If I might ask, what effect does that have on conifers?

in general .. not specific to conifers... high night humidity is a host to mildews.. fungii ... bacterias.. etc ... its a stewing pot for pathogens ...

already stressed plants .. that then start losing needles due to other problems .... are at risk .... and then you start watering more.. because you think it needs water [due to the browning needles].. and rot the roots.. when the problem never had anything to do with water in the first place ....

but in my case.. i am trying to figure out the difference between the south .. and me in MI ... temps arent that much different... during the day .... so it has to be something about the night .... why can plants i grow up here, grow in TN... or farther south ... day heat is near equal ... at its apex... but their season is longer, of course ...

speculating.. no matter what stress mine might get ... even if it gets to 100 degrees... and in august.. at night we might be down to mid 60's.. and in drought.. low humidity ...

there just has to be some reason that stuff lives here.. but doesnt thrive in higher zones ...

and yes... dave.. i was excluding this years newbies.. i guess i was thinking most of wills stock has already wintered over... i might also protect brand new ones.. but second year plants should be moving toward free range ...

if will has to screen every plant in his collection.. he may as well shade cloth the whole yard .... but i doubt that is necessary ... but i agree on those planted this spring ....

i guess what i am saying to Will.. is that what he might consider it a heat wave for the pacific northwest.. but it might not mean anything to an established conifer .. he might be worrying about how it bothers him .. and harm his plants otherwise with too much TLC .. because it is of no consequence to the conifers ...

anthropomorphism is the term .. link below .... in other words.. heat wave is a human experience of ambient temps [which apparently resin has never experienced...lol] ... which might be basically unimportant to a vegetable.. or conifer ....

think it all out .. before you start changing your conifer regimen .. just because it is going to be a misery for you personally to take the heat .... there is a good chance it is going to be simply irrelevant to a vast majority of your plants ... so if you go changing every method you have.. you are increasing your odds of screwing it all up ....

ergo.. and full circle.. sorta .. lol .. DONT KILL THEM WITH TOO MUCH LOVE...

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

Thanks Ken - when you get it all figured out, would you please be kind enough to post!! I, too, have wondered why things were better suited for one area over another. When I started buying conifers almost ten years ago, I was under the impression that they were just merely "pine trees" and could survive just about anything. Boy was I in for a rude awakening! I have learned lots over the years but am still trying to expand the knowledge - much of which is coming from reading the forum.

One thing I don't worry about is over watering. Have a sprinkler system and have learned how to time the zone that covers the conifers. I tend to OVER LOVE!!

Glenda

There are so many variable when trying to react to air temperature changes that if you do over react it can be problematic.

I was talking earlier yesterday with a large nursery in Portland, OR and they're not changing their watering schedule at all due to the heat wave in the NW. The plants have been on the same watering schedule since they were first planted and to drastically change the amount or frequency of water would give the plants just another new challenge to deal with in addition to the heat.

Most of the problem with certain conifers in the southeast US have more to do with soil then air temps and humidity. Another huge factor is most conifers are grown in the NW and are on their seasonal clock and when are newly planted in the SE are clock runs faster. An Abies koreana that is delivered to a nursery or shipped in early spring from the NW would probably have another 6-8 weeks of mild temps and humidity there but will only have 4-6 weeks of those conditions in the SE. I'm doing a pretty extensive trial this spring on some of these subjects and I'll keep everyone up to date.

The drought here continues. Yet again, a storm system went through, providing most of us in the northern half of WI, with a few exceptions, with little more than a shift in wind direction. Southern WI, of course, had roads washed out and flooding. Same pattern over and over. But........I am starting to formulate a hypothesis that it is heat, coupled with drought, that is the real killer. As mentioned in an earlier thread, most of my new baby conifers up at the tree farm are not only surviving, but managing to grow, with NO help from me. I would be watering them if it was more practical to do so. But it's not, so they're essentially on their own.

I would be concerned about very high heat coupled with drought though. That does seem to suck the life out of everything. The saving grace for us is that this summer has been abnormally cool also. Temps in the low 50's F most nights and highs rarely over 80 F. From a human-comfort standpoint, it's been ideal.

+oM

So, where has the weather been "normal"?! It has been overcast and/or raining here for about two months--nearly every day! Highs in the 80's, lows 70's, humidity rarely under 80%. Please, let's share the wealth already! If this isn't getting stuck in a rut I don't know what is. Will be glad when this summer is over. Plants and trees look great though save for the algae and lichen growing on the tree branches

Well, a few losses so far. I guess that is to be expected with some 1400 new conifers and maples in pots and the ground. Really for so many plants - all basically new, I consider this a very acceptable loss rate.

Yesterday's high was 103, the highest recorded temperature at Seattle-Tacoma airport in 118 years of record keeping. It was 106 at my house. Six straight days now of 90+ highs, also a record.

Some sad losses:

Abies lasiocarpa 'Lopalpun' - super-full sun, 14+ hours a day of sun, browned and died from the inside out. 48 hours from symptoms to death.

Abies koreana 'Nadelkissen' - 10-12 hours of sun including all mid-day sun. In a pot now in the shade - might come back, lost about half the plant.

Abies koreana 'Silberkugel' - 10-12 hours of sun - same as above. - A goner.

Sciadopitys verticillata 'Ossorio Gold' - 8 hours of full sun, shade from 5PM on - Heavy drooping of needles, some fallen off. Given a heavy shade 'tent-net' - praying for a comeback.

Some plants are growing faster in the heat...

Larix kaempferi 'Wolterdingen' - Growing BALLISTICALLY. Last year put on 2-3 inches of growth all around. This year, an easy six inches - plant is going to get huge - much larger then I antipicapted.

Larix kaempferi 'Pendula' - Staking it upright and this plant is just going crazy as well. The main leader has grown in excess of 24 inches and the side leaders are going nuts too. I presume it will weep once it gets some weight to the upper branches.

Cedrus libani 'Katere' - Normal growth rate about an inch a year. Mine has pushed two huge long leaders.

Will

Hi all. Sorry to hear about the losses Will and others . Then again, if you're going to put a great number of newly planted conifers etc. to the test, you might as well do it right at the beginning. If the great majority survives, you will probably sleep more comfortably in future years during similar heatwaves!
We're having daytime temps in de mid-90's (35° C) and early morning (6 am) temps around 60 (15° C) .
That's when I like to water as many of the plants as I'm able to, as evaporation is then at it's lowest.
I've pumped the well dry, but luckily we've also got mains water. Underground water reserves for the South of France are back to normal after years of deficit, so ,hopefully we won't have to face any watering restrictions.
Only loss so far is a small Picea abies 'Clanbrasiliana' in a 4" pot...a couple of days of inattention and it was reduced to kindling.
I'll do a rain dance tomorrow and think of you all.(The previous one I was thinking of Resin!)T.

Sparky,we have had your normal weather this year.Cool June and july with plenty of rain.The weather you are having now is what we normally get in August.Its been so cool here i am just now getting my first Tomatoes and i havn't lost one Rhodo liner this year .Try planting your conifers in the fall and you beat that summer heat until they are established with better root systems. Joe

Just an add-on to Will's concerns about our recent (and continuing) extreme weather.

I work at a large retail nursery just across the Sound from Seattle (Kitsap Peninsula). We have a large and diverse collection of conifers for sale, including a large number of smaller, 1G sized container plants and even an assortment of the smaller 'bonsai starts' from Iseli. With almost no exceptions (Cryptomeria japonica 'Knaptonensis'), all of these are displayed in our conifer yard in full sun. The only changes we made to accommodate increased temperatures is to bump up our watering schedule from every other day to daily. Wednesday, we hit 103F (a record!).

While extended periods of very high temperatures in summer are unusual here in the PNW, we regularly hit the 90's for at least a couple of days and longer periods of hotter temps are common to Oregon where most of these plants are grown. They sure don't seem to mind it, provided they get sufficient water.

FWIW, I recently moved and sold off a good portion of my plant collection. Various dwarf conifers were transplanted at the beginning of summer to a friend's garden (another conifer collector). I was over for a visit on Tuesday and without exception, all are thriving despite a less than ideally timed transplant and the current drought and heat. And that includes a large and quite mature Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Nana Lutea' that seems to have taken all the disruption in stride.

The only fatality in my move was an adorable, rare Tsuga canadensis 'Verkade's Recurvata' that my idiot ex-husband insisted on taking. Although a plant enthusiast, he is no gardener and I'm sure didn't provide proper aftercare and sufficient watering.......it's half dead and will never regain its previous beauty.

It was a very cool and wet July in Ohio. Every year is different.

Don't panic. But water sure whenever, it's a garden.

First year in the ground plantings of Abies are usually the first to go when subjected to 100+ temps and high humidity over an extended period of time. They should be screened first and misted to cool down in the heat of the day. Established plants need not apply.

Abies...an alpine conifer that likes to cool off during the night will kick if it can't.

Dave

Normally this wouldn't be a concern here, but we're stuck in the 90s. Lows at night are usually upper 60s and low 70s. We've even had much higher then normal humidity(60-70%). We're pressing on at about ten straight days here of about 90-100 degree highs. Fingers crossed here on my precious abies collections.

I have yet to lose a plant i planted in the fall,but several years ago i ordered some conifers in the spring which included mostly abies and lost nearly all.Abies Lasiocarpa'Duflon' Abies Koreana 'Silberkugel' abies Orientalis 'Tom Thumb Gold'.The only two survivors where Abies Koreana'Cis'(planted with some shade)and Abies Lasiocarpa"Lopalpun".I have since ordered the others again and instead of planting in spring i potted them up and will plant this fall.In my opinion the size of plant also matters,young grafs have a harder time getting thru the summer.So i plant everything now in the fall,including Rhodos. Joe

Half dozen more losses today. It's almost entirely Abies cultivars. Some burning on others, it's just been so brutally warm. Perhaps it's no comparison to the Mid-West, but here are some of the records we toppled in the past two weeks:

Eight days in a row of 90+ highs. Old record was 5.

103 degrees at Sea-Tac. Hottest temperature in recorded history there, smashing the old record of 100.

Of the last 10 days, 6 were all-time highs for that day.

Combine all this with our normally dry conditions - which have actually even been drier then normal - and it's bad news for gardeners. I think we've had less then one inch of rainfall since Mid-May.

.... Out I go again to water! lol

Will, unfortunately your very cold and long winter in the NW is not helping your cause.

I've put in the ground over a 100 large conifers and maples this year from Portland and I've been amazed at how late to push many were compared to plants that had already been established in my southeast US growing conditions.

We've had an incredibly mild summer but did have one week of excessive heat, 100+ temps, some of my Abies cultivars did start to stress but thankfully due to their size and a change in weather they've been able to rebound.

I've had good success using Worm Casting as top dressing for many of the Abies cultivars that like more moisture. There's just nothing you can do to fight air temps.

I am curious as to how the Abies are acting before they die. Dose this years growth wilt and then drop or do they brown and then drop?

"I am curious as to how the Abies are acting before they die. Dose this years growth wilt and then drop or do they brown and then drop"

When 100+ temps and high humidity set in that is the time to take precaution against sudden loss of these conifers.

For me there is no warning? One day they were fine...next day they were totally wilted. They seem to reach a plateau of stress with no visible signs there is anything going on then over night they are toast.

I have a friend/collector that put ice cubes under his 'Silberlocke' at night only when the threat of loosing it was apparent. He did this for several years till it was thoroughly established...he really wanted it. It survived. I would really like to have several in my garden but I don't have time for special needs conifers...so I will never plant another one.

I got the message loud and clear.

Dave

Sudden death for my plants. I do occasionally see the edges of the plants(or the center), start to wilt and brown. I have only saved a couple from this sign. Usually I think it's the start of a death cycle. All of my abies that have died have been in 10+ hours of our hot NW sun. I'm leaning more and more towards putting abies in part shade, particularly ones like Abies alba, Abies balsamea, Abies koreana and Abies lasiocarpa. No losses on those plants in shade - they look robust and growing great.

My process has been simple - move dead or dying plants to shade or pots in shade, replace with dwarf and miniature pines. I've lost one pine so far out of hundreds and it was overwatered I think.

Pines and Cedars(cedrus) are my two toughest conifers when it comes to warmth. Had to move a few abies miniature/dwarves as well, they were starting to brown a bit in full sun also.

Will,thats a good idea.2 years ago i planted a Abies Koreana "Blau Hexe" it was not doing to good in the full sun(9hrs a day) so i dug it up potted it in Als 5-1-1 mix moved it to partial shade and this year it looks great.I willplant it where it stands in the fall.Also you are a big buyer from Bob Fincham,did you not read his articles on these Abies and Picea in Firs and Spruce in rock gardens?I belive he recomends some afternoon shade for a lot of these. Joe

Correction on above it is Abies Koreana 'Blauer Eskimo" My Abies Procera "Blau Hexe" is doing ok. Joe

Joe, It's 'Blauer Hexe' instead of 'Blau Hexe'.

And to think we almost escaped Mississippi to live in Seattle! Down here in Hell, we are wary of most conifers, due to their climate-specific nature.

It's sickening to think that another place where beautiful conifers used to thrive is being ruined for them, due to Global Warming. When we were networking prior to our (aborted) move ('97), we stayed in Issaquah. It was distressing to hear how climate change there was leading to disease in certain conifers.

It was comforting to know that there were cool places where beautiful things would grow, and it's horrible to know that those places are becoming fewer.

But since I am accustomed to gardening in Hell, I will offer what works for us, sometimes: foot-deep mulch, and shade from noon til' dusk. Being located beneath a large pine seems to help with herbs, so maybe placing potted conifers beneath them will help, too. The pines that grow here seem to create cooling updrafts.

I don't know how much of these weather streaks are 'global warming', after all, we also had a record cold Winter and Spring. Also, most climage change scientists predict coastal areas will not increase drastically in temperature even in a severe global warming event - the inland areas are where changes are expected to be severe.

Hahahaha, Global Warming .....EPA's biggest hoax yet. What a joke.

Global warming or not, it's just not right to say that one single event (in this case a very hot period) could be caused by this global warming.
IF global warming exists, such events could occur more often. In the past such heat waves or cold snaps also occured, but they were very rare events.

Thanks Joy,I didn't really know the right spelling as i have seen it as'Blau Hexe' Thanks again. Joe

Stevemy

I'm in the same area as Will. I lost a new double trunk abies lasiocarpa.

I did see some sporadic yellowing/brown needles indicating stress before the top-most tips wilted/turned brown and withered. Then it progressed down the tree as more needles turned brown and dried out. (in that order.) By the time it stopped, there was very little green left on the smaller of the two trees. The small one may survive, heavily damaged, but the larger is dead.

The other double trunk a. Las (located right next to the dead one) is doing quite well, though some of it's new growth tips have wilted, a few more turned brown. Otherwise it/they seem quite happy. You almost can't water these trees too much (especially with the type of soil around here - sandy loam).

Things you think are tough as nails, are dead from our heatwave. (As I drive around, I'm seeing dead blackberry bushes - around here, these are not easily killed. People have business just to kill them.)

Several conifers in the ground two years also showed signs of stress, and required extra watering.

I've learned, always plant in the fall here and still plan to water for three summers during dry spells. Or *very* early spring/late winter. Maybe. If it's drought tolerant to begin with.

Resin
I'd gladly trade you your cool wet weather. (normal here) I miss it. We're finally getting some drizzle - and I'm enjoying it. We really need it.

At least it's not as bad as Taiwan . . . 2 metres of rain in one day, 4½ metres in less than a month . . . more than I get in five years

Resin

A report back from the nursery plants enduring the very hot, dry weather......we didn't lose any and we hit 107F in Poulsbo on the record breaking day! None were moved and none received any undue attention other than a very close monitoring of the watering -- often twice a day during the hottest stretches. A number of golden cultivars did experience some scorch, mostly selections of Chamaecyparis obtusa. But they are still alive and for the most part, looking good!

I'd be interested to know how some of the large Oregon growers (Iseli, Stanley & Sons, Youngblood, etc.) faired during the heat wave. It tends to be quite a bit hotter (and colder in winter) there than it does in the Puget Sound region and those guys carry as many containerized plants as they do field grown trees, if not more, and all out in the open. Our buyer is currently down there on a buying trip for next season, so I'll be interested to see what her experience was.

Gardengal do you work at Valley Nursery?