Everybody has their personal preferences so I'd recommend planting the plant you really like and if it fits a specific need in the design.

Ones on your list that I think are must haves no matter what.
Picea orientalis 'Tom Thumb Gold'
Picea abies 'Pusch'

Ones on your list I'd cross off
Pinus sylvestris 'Bonna' (poor habit)
Pinus sylvestris 'Mitsch Weeping' (I don't recommend the large cutlivars of this species)
Pinus nigra 'Hornibrookiana' (boring and its nigra)
Pinus densiflora 'Umbraculifera' (better choices out there)
Pinus banksiana 'Schoodic' (its cool at first but then its boring)
Larix laricina 'Girard Witches' Broom' (anything with Girard in the cultivar name should be avoided)

I don't see too many selections in your wish list that Iseli offers. I'd recommend taking a close look at them to get started. The prices for the size and quality is top notch. Then move on to the mail order sources for the more rare stuff. Just my 2 cents. Wish I would have done that up front.

Here is my current Iseli wishlist...

Picea omorika 'Kamenz'
Picea omorika 'Minima'
Abies koreana 'Blauer Eskimo'
Abies koreana 'Silver Star' (if my Silberlocke dies)
Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Chirimen'
Pinus parviflora 'Koku ho'
Taxus cuspidata 'Nana Aurescens'
Tsuga canadensis 'Frostie'
Larix kaempferi 'Wolterdingen'
Picea omorika 'Gnom'
Picea pungens 'Lundeby's Dwarf'
Pinus aristata(longaeva) 'Joe's Bess'
Pinus cembra 'Algonquin Pillar'
Pinus leucodermis (heldreichii) 'Banderica'
Pinus parviflora 'Kinpo'

'Hillside Creeper' is a very easy plant to grow by the way.

I would have to have Iseli shipped here too, right? A lot of these I got from the RFWP catalog, even though they are not all available. Some of the others I got from Coenosium Gardens' list. The only frustrating thing to me is Iseli's lack of photos. It takes me significantly longer to browse their offerings if I have to Google every plant. :O/

My business is not yet large enough to warrant a truck shipment large enough to justify the cost.

I see Pinus parviflora 'Kinpo' on your list. I just got one from my former employer, and it sure enough came from Iseli. Every year they buy in some of the mainstays, and a few really cool things you can't otherwise get around here. I love 'Kinpo' already and hope it does well here.

What would you suggest in place of Pinus densiflora 'Umbraculifera'? I simple LOVE the form. I liked the size of the smaller one but not the price at Rich's.

Thanks for the other heads-ups. Those were just the type of comments I was looking for. A little opinion, a little practical.

hey

forget all nigra ... IMHO ...

are you new to collecting things??? ... NOTHING on your list is to die for ... and what i mean is.. EVERYTHING that is to die for.. will NOT be available .. lol .. been there.. dreamed that ...

one way to whittle down your list.. is to simply cross off everything that is not available ...

so actually.. you have two lists.. one is the lifetime achievement list ... and the other list is the 'lets be realistic', because it is actually available ... lol ...

i used to get the updated Stanley list.. and it was a given.. that everything i would die for.. they had only one in stock.. and i never got a chance to get it.. in the alternative.. it was the one that died in shipping ...

as a beginning collector.. i favored VOLUME over price ... i would rather get 10 second year grafts .. in the 20 to 30 dollar range ... investing 200 to 300 dollars ... rather than investing in 1 to 3 large specimens ... for the same money ... to each his own as to which way.. its simply about cost vs instant gratification ... and all the power to ya.. as to which is your choice ... or within your budget

******Pinus sylvestris 'Hillside Creeper' (I MUST HAVE THIS! Please tell me I can grow it...)

===>>> well what can i say.. obtain one.. plant PROPERLY and water it.. what the confusion.. lol ... is there some reason pines wont grow for you??? otherwise.. you cant beat it back with a stick ???

your employer.. can order in stuff from iseli.. for shipment in fall/late winter ... just open the bank account.. and go to town ...

and forget bonna ... i have to cut mine down.. growing 5 to 7 feet per year.. and frankly.. ugly as heck ... even the guy who put it in the trade.. said he gave up on it long ago.. due to such [fincham???] .. it was an old post here in which he said such ... or i dreamed it.. dont want to go putting words in someones mouth ...

cembras have never been aggressive for me ... they dont die.. they arent sickly .. they just seem to not want to grow like other pines .. which are basically weeds here in MI ... and i never bothered to figure out why ... maybe they are a pine that prefers elevation which loosely translates to cool nights .. rather than midwest heat?? .. cembra means swiss pine.. doesnt it]

so.. in summation, your honor ... define the planting area.. close or far .. get a few larger things, or those that will grow fast .. to plant at distance ... so you can actually see them .. and add a few minis.. if you are planning a bed close to you ...

and order until the budget fails .. lol .. been there.. done that ... but do clearly define a budget..

ken

greenhaven,

Actually Iseli's general public for sale list does not cover all the cultivars they have for sale. The Picea pungens 'Niemetz' that I purchased this year reflects that. Thy are growing some real cool stuff that can be ordered and I am trying to gain access to that not published list. It takes time. Did you down load their on line catalog? Lots of photos.

The Picea o. 'Tom Thumb Gold' will need to be screened in full sun to acclimate. Full sun is a must.

Pinus parviflora 'Kinpo' should read 'Kin-po'

You can grow dwarf cultivars of Pinus nigra especially 'Hornibrookiana'. Give it some room.

Pinus sylvestris 'Hillside Creeper'. Easy grow.

Pinus cembra....nothing special and a slow grower as indicated in above post.

All others appear ok if you can find them.

Rich's charges a premimum from what I've seen. Iseli will average $40 for a 1 gallon, $70 for a 3 gallon and $120 for 6 gallon in the WI retail market. These are for the more uncommmon cultivars.

If you have a list from Bob you might want to make that a priority as I don't know if his retail business will be open after spring next year.

"one way to whittle down your list.. is to simply cross off everything that is not available ...

so actually.. you have two lists.. one is the lifetime achievement list ... and the other list is the 'lets be realistic', because it is actually available ... lol ..."

Very wise words! I will do that immediately.

"===>>> well what can i say.. obtain one.. plant PROPERLY and water it.. what the confusion.. lol ... is there some reason pines wont grow for you??? otherwise.. you cant beat it back with a stick ???"

Not really confused, per se, just want to make sure nt missing info like 'susceptible to root rot' or 'never performs well for me.' I have a straight species P. sylvestris in the back yard, looks fantastic despite pounding prairie winds and dogs that abuse it liberally. I'll have to take a photo. The adaptation of its form to the prevailing wind is striking! How much space should I allow 'Hillside Creeper?' Saw one in the J. Carlson catalog but not sure I believe the 5' width statement.

"your employer.. can order in stuff from iseli.. for shipment in fall/late winter ... just open the bank account.. and go to town ...and order until the budget fails .. lol .. been there.. done that ... but do clearly define a budget."

Ha ha ha ha ha! That was funny! But also excellent words of wisdom. They are not really my employers anymore, but they DID say I could tack orders onto theirs whenever I wished. I think they only order in once a season, though. probably a good thing.

I already crossed 'Bonna' off the list. Going back and looking at photos again made me say "Why did I add that to begin with?" Probably because it was midnight and I had hungry eyes.

whaas, I did read that about Bob's retail business. I think I will take those words to heart, too. Thanks.

"one way to whittle down your list.. is to simply cross off everything that is not available ...
so actually.. you have two lists.. one is the lifetime achievement list ... and the other list is the 'lets be realistic', because it is actually available ... lol ..."

Very wise words! I will do that immediately.

"===>>> well what can i say.. obtain one.. plant

I'm a devil's advocate and actually disagree with this recommendation. Start slow develop contacts and most everything you would want is available.

I look at it as not settling. Otherwise you start buying what is readily available.

Between Iconic Gardens, Stanley & Sons, Bob, Western Evergreen, Song Sparrow, Dan's Dwarf Conifers, Iseli and Conifer Kingdom you should have the cream of the crop for several years before you crave more.

so will..

everything he sees on the European market [of which we see many pix] .. thru our friends over there??? .. he can get in the next season ...

everything joy presumably shared this winter.. will be grafted and available en masse in the next few months???? i doubt it ..

i understand the advocate part.. but he will NOT find everything he ever wants .. in the next few months ... period ...

i realize you have gotten to the point of simply arguing with just about everything i offer.. so be it.. if it brings you pleasure ...

ken

Just another perspective. No arguing here. I know you get mad when folks challenge you so it is fun!lol!

Also I did say start slow and develop contacts. Those plants are here my friend.

There are 1000s of cultivars at his disposal right now. No need to look at European cutlivars at this point.

GH, not sure if you caught this or not but in the Iseli catalog most plant names are underlined and have nice photos right there that you can click via the link

Pinus sylvestris 'Bonna' isn't ugly.
It does have the growing habit like the species but then with steel blue coloured needles.
In fact it's a true beauty...

No squabbling, this is a No-Drama-Mama! :o)

I appreciate both sides of the coin, understanding there is room in the budget for an occasional impulse buy and wisdom in putting together a wish list toward which to work. It's all good.

Just for the record:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Not everyone likes the same things. Dave, I have a question for you about the cembra. What would you pick over that? I love the look of the cembra, but just curious what you have in mind more so than that.

Hi! And welcome(at least from me, even if you've been here a while. Glad to see more enthusiastic conifer gardeners. I was sucked up four years ago and don't regret a moment or a plant along the way. We're blessed to have a strong, VERY knowledgable crew of folks here to help and to inspire and there are many photos to be oogled over and talked about.

Surely your list is great for someone new to the hobby but I understand and would say only that often it is better to buy plants in person OR see photos of them from a trusted source. As others have noted, there is much to choose from and we all have limitations. Pick the ones you like most and you'll be a much happier gardener!

-Will

ingeborgdot,

I have nothing against Pinus cembra.

The one pictured here was from Larry Stanley about 8 years ago. This was suppose to be species but I believe to be an unknown cultivar.

It is now close to 30 inches tall with about 3 inches of growth a year.

To me a pretty unassuming conifer and nothing much to look at. It is just taking up space and some day a more assuming cultivar will take its place that will make your toes curl. An idiomatic expression for sure.

To answer your question...As it stands now I would pick almost anything over what you see in the photo.

Dave

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I agree that Pinus cembra lacks unique cultivars but this fat cuddly species is at the top of my list for Pinus.

I've heard they are happier in colder zones.

Dave, do you think you might have an unhappy 'Blue Mound'?

I dunno, I still like the P. cembras. I am sort of an un-assuming person, so maybe it fits! :o)

I readily admit limited exposure to some really cool conifers, so time will broaden my vision, I am sure.

I am learning a lot right here on the forum. It is a bit of a teaser, though, because some of you have been collecting for years and I am an impatient gardener. That, in addition to liking pretty much everything see, will make it tougher to take my time. :o) Budget, though. I REALLY have to set a budget and stick to it for all but the most important specimens at the right opportunity.

You'll be happy with a couple for sure.

A young 'Big Blue'
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'Twister'
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'Blue Mound'
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'Nana'
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