Nothing says happy roots like happy soil so I am in your camp when it comes to preparation.

Since we share the same clay conundrum I would offer this two cents worth on the mulch. I incorporate pine nuggets into the soil. Nothing small or shredded, but large chunks. It will need 4 to 5 years to break down. It has worked in my hard Ohio clay.

I have seen many posts in the past saying not to amend the soil for conifers. Before correcting me please remember that ladylotus & I are dealing with clay. In a perfect world we would all have a sandy loam like Ken.

hey..

there is nothing wrong with clay.. per se.. many a large wholesaler grow in the muck ...

the issue is drainage .. which is very complicated on BAD clay ...

do you guys agree with such...?? .. that is what is supreme in my rather neutral sand [in terms of nutrition .]. ...

i cant add much else to this conversation... but i would suggest.. you leave 6 foot of the driveway bed in perennials.. for the snow issue.. and then start adding conifers...

in other words.. leave whats there... and add to the bed on the side away from the driveway ... why double your work???... unless you are selling them to conifer $$$$ ...

at least take the time to look outside the box you are already standing in ...

ken

I agree with you too ladylotus! Our house was built 18 years ago on farm land, so I assumed everything planted would flourish....not so. Heavy loam with hard pan and a plow pan, soil diseases and poor drainage were each my nemesis. After years of struggling I started building up the garden beds with a good draining mix of sandy loam and compost. Now, a good 150 yards later and bursitis in my shoveling joints, things are going so much betterâ¦while I continue to mulch with lawn clipping and leaves when they are available, plus add a layer a compost and/or bark when I can afford it. In new or re-worked beds, my husband and I punch through the pan layers to a depth of up to 4 feet with a posthole digger on the tractor (a few we couldn't get through), back filling with the loam/compost mix. Also, adding gypsum can aggregate clay particles for better drainage, but that depends on your soil chemistry. The difference all this has made is wonderful and soil quality only continues to improve.

The bed you show us has a beautiful shapeâ¦canâÂÂt wait to see it planted up with conifers!

Barbara

Same problems here. New home built 10 years back on former farm land, and my soil varies from clayey loam to just clay. I've learned that if I plant conifers directly in the ground they've got about 50% chance of making it, which is unacceptable especially for rarer material. Going forward I'll be bringing in topsoil to build planting berms to house new accessions. The process slows things down a bit, but meanwhile the young plants can have more time to develop better root systems in containers (gritty mix mind you) which will help the odds even further.

Also, I have to mention that I love your wall! If you ever get a chance, please do post more pictures of this or similar rock work. I will warn you up front that I am very interested in emulating your style. I have this slope that needs terracing....

Alex

Thanks to all of you that responded. The garden is jam packed full of perennials right now and as soon as the ground thaws I will be digging them up, keeping things I really liked (moving them into different beds) and potting the rest up to sell this spring for additional conifer money.

Ken, I do not plan on leaving any perennials in that garden bed right now. I will be converting it solely to conifers and adding a few rock garden plants to go with them once I've got all my conifers in place.

I have to do something with the soil as the soil in there now is so hard that it breaks a hoe. With such hard packed soil it does not allow for adequate drainage and I'm just simply sick of it.

I have one very large garden in the back of my yard that I used a foot or more deep of lasagna layering and let me tell you to this day that is my very nicest garden. The soil is still friable and my plants grow like crazy...in addition, I do not have much of a weed problem in that garden.

I will keep everyone posted on my progress. I have one other very large garden I am going to take out all the perennials from this year but I'm not sure I will have time to amend that one this year as well.

Alex, emulate away. This is the very first bed I constructed when we moved out here. I have a rock stair going down to my watergarden, but they are beginning to need a little re-freshening. ha ha.

Barbara and Bax...I can sympathize with you both. I know it would be a detriment to plants to just amend the hole I put my plant into, but when we work up the entire garden with amendments, I don't see that it can hurt the conifers at all.

Ken, you are fortunate to have nice sandy soil. What did you ever do with all the space you had available? Did you plant it up? What did you do with your stumps?

Soon I will need help finding some cool conifers to add.

I have a mix of sandy, poor soil that drains very fast and spots of clay with hardpan about 12-15 inches beneath it but I still have yet to really 'amend' any of my conifer beds. I have had pretty good success and they seem to be establishing OK. I do grow mostly dwarves though so that might be a helping factor(shorter root systems) and the climate here is more forgiving.

I *DO* put some generous helping of compost at the base of all of my Metas. gly. 'Ogon'. I think these trees really enjoy more nurtients and they love water so I think it's a good thing in this certain case.

I think bark or some other kind of water retaining/weed suppressing material on top is more important.

-Will

My native soil is also clay. In local residential areas, the builders typically bring in topsoil, and grade the lawns to provide runoff. They also install irrigation systems for supplemental water, which is essential for most gardening here (including conifers, except maybe for J. scopulorum!).

As you can see from the photo of this nearby neighborhood, it's somewhat of an artificial gardening environment.

Where the topsoil was spread too thin, or in places where it wasn't applied at all, I amend to improve tilth and drainage by adding compost, bark fines, and turface. Scoria is good too.

Hi Lady,

I think just about everything here has been talked about. I'll mention one more thing, and that's horse manure. It does wonders for soil. If you can get it on in Fall and rains seep it into the soil along with spring rain and melting snow, that's the ideal time to do it. You may also do it in spring or any time else if you are able to water often. The key is to get it into the soil. In spring though your whole yard will stink to beat hell. I know because my Mom used to do it each and every spring of my entire childhood.

And like Barbara and I'm sure others have mentioned "anything organic" you can get on clearance, especially come fall as the stores are trying to get rid of bulk, just keep adding it to your beds. Broken bags are always on my mind while shopping. Pick them up anytime you can find them for 50 cents or whatever you can get them for.

Eventually that manure will have done the work for you and you'll be able to use a tiller. ...for the next years ahead keep adding as much organic as you can when you till in the spring and come Fall, till and then spread horse manure over the tilled soil.

Once your soil is gem-like...throw more manure on it each Fall and any organics you can scrounge up.

As a side note, if you or anyone is preparing a veggie garden with horse manure, you must spread it during Fall and let it work it's way in over the winter and spring. Adding fresh horse manure to a veggie garden in spring can be toxic to humans when eating harvests. Not always, but the potential is always there for toxicity....

Dax

Will, it is nice to know that you add compost and organic matter to your lovely gardens too. Did you add the sand or do you just have sand in the soil out there in the western hemisphere?

Hey Nate, when we built the house here unfortunately, our builder did not put the top soil on the TOP. They took the clay soil they dug for the basement and spread that over the yard. So, the soil has been a work in progress. I keep adding leaves and grass clippings. It does help. But I need to really make a big change in the soil before I plant it with conifers.

Dax, how are you? I have a fella that hays our pasture and in return provides me with manure. I have been top dressing my gardens with that but it brings in a lot of weeds, particularly bindweed. Improve one thing...and digress with issues in another area...eh?

Thanks for all the comments. I was really hoping someone had a magical cure. But, I guess it is similar to what I am going to do.

Bindweed is the worst of the WORST!

I'm doing just fine. Relaxing after surgery but accomplishing things slowly. I put Preen down on every shrub and tree I have yesterday and today. I just have to be very careful with stitches running 4" down my thigh.

Dax

Hmm, have you done a soil test? I've never amended my soil for any plant species. I had to deal with three very differnt soils types at the three homes I've owned and I've only had issues with Rhodies which has more to do with is distaste for alkaline. Personally I wouldn't do anything until your soil test suggest otherwise and of course doing what you can to improve drainage which appears to be your main priority.

Good luck and have fun. All those cuttings are going to need a home!

I live on NC red clay. I double dug my first few perennial beds. Just stuck the first few conifers in & wished them luck. They were mostly lucky. Then I got lazy. Now when I want to expand i put down 18 inches of pine mulch & wait. Within 6 months I can plant right into it. In a couple of years, continually adding mulch I have a good foot of black soil in a raised bed w/ great drainage. Easy!. I try to fertilize w/ fish emulsion (when I remember) - so the decomposition doesn't eat all the nitrogen. I never til. It makes its own hard pan. If you can find Ruth Stout's old book on the subject, she will inspire you!

The main problem with amending of planting holes and other small areas is how the movement of water into and out of the amended hole can be affected by the difference in texture between the soil in the hole and the unamended or less amended soil around the hole.

Amended beds will only have this interaction around the edges, however there is still the problem of the amendments decomposing and returning the soil to its original condition over time. This can be avoided by amending with mineral materials such as sand but then you have to watch you don't go overboard and make the planting area prone to drought and leaching. Yet you have to end up with more than 50% sand before it begins to turn a heavy soil into a lighter one.

The most straightforward approach is to choose plants adapted to the existing soil. Otherwise, bringing in suitable soil and dumping it on top of the existing soil, planting in that, without blending the two soils together is much more to the point than amending existing soil.

Amended beds are really only suitable for short-term plants like vegetables or other kinds with small root systems. Many kinds grown actually do not like highly organic, fluffed up soils, not everything is a lettuce plant.

We don't amend the holes where we plant conifers. As long as the drainage is good, our red clay is nutrient rich and great for growing our trees/shrubs. That said, I do put in a couple of handfuls (depending on the size of the tree being planted) of rock phosphate. As long as we stay on top of the watering in dry periods most of our trees do well.

I double dug one of my heavy clay garden beds about 20 years ago, adding copious amounts of fir bark fines. It is still wonderful soil, though I do let the leaves of my Pin Oak accumulate there every fall and I'm sure that helps. Double digging is hard work, but worth it!

One thing I would never do again is to use peat moss! It is not a good planting amendment (a search of the GW on peat moss turns up lots of discussion about its use), mining it is a carbon problem, and if it should ever dry out, it sheds water like a rain coat. I made the mistake of incorporating peat moss into a bed where I planted blueberries and I am unable to get water to reliably penetrate the soil. I've used wetting agents of various kinds, I've poked holes, etc etc. nothing works effectively.