Norway spruces after first winter

17 years ago

I'm trying to decide if I need to replace some of my 4-yr norway transplants from last year. When I planted them, I deemed any mechanical protection to animals to be unnecessary. Boy was I wrong. In November, before we even had a flake of snow, the rabbits and deer did a number on about 75% of my trees. I got smart and put cages around all the trees worth salvaging to minimize further damage. Here is an example:

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q82/bleech2/Norway_deer_damage.jpg

The main leader is OK, but just about every other branch was chewed on and doesn't have any buds. Should trees like this be replaced?

The other problem I am just now finding is that the tips of branches on otherwise undamaged trees are turning brown. Example (top down view):

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q82/bleech2/Norway_brown_tips.jpg

The buds on these are swelling but the browing keeps getting worse. Is this tree done for? Out of the 30 or so Norways planted last year, only 3 still look like they did when they entered dormancy last fall. Very frustrating!

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Comments (4)

pineresin
17 years ago
They'll recover from surprisingly heavy browsing. I'd not be too worried.

The browning on the old needles probably isn't too significant either; see how the new foliage looks later in the year.

Resin
spruceman
17 years ago
The browning here looks very minimal. I have just one question--did you give these trees any fertilizer at all? Are they anywhere near a road where salt treatments could have blown their way? This browning is unusual in my experience, hence my questions. But as of now it is not a cause for concern unless it progresses rapidly before bud break.

As for the browsed trees. If you have a stalk and a terminal bud, you probably have a lot more buds that you don't see. A tree like the one you described should be fine. If some others don't have any of their original branch ends left and no buds are visible, you might be better off replacing them, even if they would eventually recover--they will be significantly behind the others.

--Spruce
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winter caused the browning... winter .. regardless of how much snow you see ... is the driest time of year... because it is all bound up in the snow and ice ... plus add on the blistering FREEZE DRYING effect of winter wind ... and the constant heating and cooling of the needles when the sun actually does appear on a 3 degree day ... second .... imagine your are some minimum wage stock boy .. and you have to offload 5000 trees off the truck .. look close at your first one.. and tell me.. or yourself.. doesnt it look like all the damage is in one place where some schmuck grabbed the tree and tossed it off the truck ... regardless.. the buds look fine.. it is winter damage made worse by transplant ... there is nothing to do.. other than wait until it buds out ... as for the second ones.. many juniper have transitory coloration all winter long ... but again.... there is nothing to do but wait and see .. but you would have been better off planting them back in the ground .. instead of the pots all winter.... even if you dug them back up this spring.. they would have handled winter better in mother earth .. all the wind/sun/snow issues .. etc .. are multiplied because normally.. roots are protected in the earth.. leaving them above ground complicates the whole thing ... please report back in late spring.. and let us know.. good luck ken
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Will this fast growth affect the quality of the wood? I doubt it, but in any case I am not growing these trees for the wood. Most of them are part of the long screen I planted last year along our property line. I am a great lover of violin/string music, especially string quartets. It has long been a mystery how the wonderful violins by Stradivari (and some others) in the 17th century were made. No one has ever been able to match them. The tops are made from Norway spruce, and are supposed to be largely responsible for the wonderful sound. Now if someone wanted some wood to make a violin I would be agreeable!! A couple more observations. I have never seen this kind of growth on older, larger NS. I have about two dozen older and larger ones planted around here, and none have these summer shoots. And I havent seen it, to my knowledge, on the thousands I have on my timberland. Sometimes, standing far below, I have seen some kind of compensatory growth at the top of trees that have had a weevil attack, but I never had an opportunity to examine it closely. Occasionally I will see a few fresh needles develop at the tips of the leaders of larger trees, but there was little, if any growth involved. Also, there is no branching of any consequence, either on the shoots themselves, or at the point where they started to grow at the end of the original spring shoot. Dax: as for my white pine supertree--it is about 85 feet tall and pruned up to 35 feet or so. I would need a professional climber--and one who would not climb with spikes! gnomeabram: the growth I have on my trees looks something like yours when it is just starting. --Spruce
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Cal: Norway spruce are generally a medium-fast growing tree. But, of course, your climate and soil make a big difference. I have grown NS both in Northern Virginia, a dry and hot Z6, and in the mountains of Western Maryland, a wet, snowy Z5. In both places I have seen some very fast growth on individual trees certain years. Yes, up to 4' or a tad more, but your average will be much less. In Western MD, in my forest groves on a good "class II" forest soil, the average is 28 inches. At this rate a 4 foot tree will be about 115 feet tall in another 50 years, with a very steady growth rate for the whole period. In Northern VA, the growth rate will be substantially less, averaging about 20 inches in a forest stand. But if your trees are growing in the open, they will, on average, grow in height more slowly, but faster in diameter. In given years their growth may be affected by possible white pine weevils, which kill the top portion of the previous year's leader. And, birds landing on the new leaders, before they have hardened, will break them, which also slows height growth for that year. --Spruce
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cal ... do not buy the picea pungens .... wait until spring ... to verify its spring color .... the blue.. is a waxy coating.. its is prime.. the best ... at spring flush .. this is when you buy an unnamed variety ... if you want to buy now.. you buy a named variety.. [of which we can provide names and mail order places] ... and do to such.. there will be predictability of color .. as a waxy coating.. it wears off to some extent.. over the summer.. high heat.. rain storms... sprinklers.. just to piss you off ..... etc ... so they all dull up to some extent.. as summer rolls by ... if you look in the interior.. you will see 2 and 3 years old needles.. nearing the green color all needles are.. under the wax.. this is all normal .. regardless.. BUY A NAMED VARIETY ... even if you have to buy smaller and mail order ... and it will make your toes tingle.. too many peeps buy unnamed seedlings... which are kinda blue.. and hope they will be like the ones that make your toes curl ... odds are.. it wont be .... go for quality .. over the instant gratification of size.. pic below of my Picea pungens Hoopsi.. at spring flush.. showing its annual growth.. starting from a one gallon ... one foot turd ... ken it was a blue turd.. lol...
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
17 years ago
first.. in photobucket... COPY the html TAG LINE ... and paste that one into the post.. and the picture will appear when you hit preview.. if you see it.. we will see it .... i believe it is the middle line ....

i agree with all the above.. and when this tree is 4 feet tall .. all the branches you are fixated on will be gone and dead from being shaded from the sun by the vigorous higher branches ....

i know its hard not to worry about it... but don't.. as long as at least one branch has a bud... the tree can grow ... the only time to panic is when they browse every single bud off the babe .. at that point.. most conifers do NOT have dormant buds .... and will die when the current needles fall off [which can be a year or two later, with normal needle fall] ... most of the time ...

see what they do this spring/summer .. you can always add a few in fall ....

good luck

ken
gnomeabram
Original Author
17 years ago
Thanks for all the replies! It will be interesting to see what happens this year. There were only a couple that had all visible buds chewed off and those have already been replaced. None of them are close to a source of road salt or were fertilized last year.

Here's the second attempt at the pictures (thanks Ken!)

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Norway spruces after first winter

Comments (4)

pineresin

spruceman

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Norway spruces after first winter

Comments (4)

pineresin

spruceman

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

gnomeabramOriginal Author

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