Norway Spruce growth rate question. First year 4".

9 years ago

Hello GW.

Last fall (2013) I planted 5 bare root Norway Spruces. They were four years old and around 30" tall each. I'm not impatient about their growth but I would like to know more information regarding their growth. I understand that it takes a few years for trees to get established but I was wondering how many years that is and if them being bare root will increase the time needed to get established. This year they had about 3-5" of top growth and 4"+ lateral which in all honesty I was thrilled about since I thought I'd lose them because of the harsh winter. Like always, any information would be greatly appreciated.

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spruceman

9 years ago

Cal:

Norway spruce are generally a medium-fast growing tree. But, of course, your climate and soil make a big difference.

I have grown NS both in Northern Virginia, a dry and hot Z6, and in the mountains of Western Maryland, a wet, snowy Z5.

In both places I have seen some very fast growth on individual trees certain years. Yes, up to 4' or a tad more, but your average will be much less. In Western MD, in my forest groves on a good "class II" forest soil, the average is 28 inches. At this rate a 4 foot tree will be about 115 feet tall in another 50 years, with a very steady growth rate for the whole period.

In Northern VA, the growth rate will be substantially less, averaging about 20 inches in a forest stand.

But if your trees are growing in the open, they will, on average, grow in height more slowly, but faster in diameter. In given years their growth may be affected by possible white pine weevils, which kill the top portion of the previous year's leader. And, birds landing on the new leaders, before they have hardened, will break them, which also slows height growth for that year.

--Spruce

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Comments (7)

jarpe
9 years ago
It will take about 2 growing seasons to establish, after that effective growth will start and It will propably be 10 feet tall after ten years.
wisconsitom
9 years ago
...yeah, something like that. Here's what happened up at my tree farm, which we started on in 2008: That first year, we hand-planted several hundred conifer seedlings. Technically, some of these were plug stock, while others were normal bare-root. Of the third or so that were NS, the best of that bunch are now about twelve feet tall. The last two growing seasons in particular have seen rather impressive height increments, with last year's wet weather yielding as much as 4 1/2 feet of new growth on some. This year's growing season started out wet but became quite dry by July. Nevertheless, some of the NS have once again put on upwards of three feet + of new growth. Very vigorous species.

This is in a sandy loam soil in Z4.

+oM
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first.. in photobucket... COPY the html TAG LINE ... and paste that one into the post.. and the picture will appear when you hit preview.. if you see it.. we will see it .... i believe it is the middle line .... i agree with all the above.. and when this tree is 4 feet tall .. all the branches you are fixated on will be gone and dead from being shaded from the sun by the vigorous higher branches .... i know its hard not to worry about it... but don't.. as long as at least one branch has a bud... the tree can grow ... the only time to panic is when they browse every single bud off the babe .. at that point.. most conifers do NOT have dormant buds .... and will die when the current needles fall off [which can be a year or two later, with normal needle fall] ... most of the time ... see what they do this spring/summer .. you can always add a few in fall .... good luck ken
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Chester: I think are are a bit like me--I observe the growth of my trees, especially my Norway spruce very closely. So let me tell you a little more about what I have observed. First, the shoot elongation. You will know when your shoot has just about finished growing when the needles on the top third are spaced as they are on the bottom third. Your tree is doing very well, considering it is just its second year of growth after planting. A little more about forks/double leaders. I said that I usually wait three years before cutting out double leaders because they tend to resolve themselves. Well, considering how closely you are observing the growth of your tree, let me tell you a little more of what I have discovered after many, many years of NS growing. If you want a tre with perfectly regular form, cut out any forked or double leader immediately. If you are like me and don't really care about "perfection" of form, here are my guidelines: If the two tips of the double leader are separated by 5 or six inches (depending on total length) the chances that one will take over and the other move to be a side branch (although at a more accute angle) are very great. I do nothing. If the two tips of the double leader are very close after the second year, you will most likely have to cut one out, even if one is somewhat shorter than the other. When you cut out one of two leaders, especially if they are the kind with the tips close together, it is best to cut it out right at the base. These leaders react as if they were separate trees, and when cut off they try to re-grow quickly to make up for the loss. If one is growing out at a bit of an angle to the taller one, shortening can help the tree develop more regular form without cutting it out completely. I usually don't do this with my spruce trees, but it is OK. Well, I hope this helps. Your tree will grow faster in some years, slower in some others. This is not always because of differences in the weather. There are internal tree dynamics that I am not sure anyone understands. So I if your tree does not grow quite as much next year, don't think about it. Also, sometimes a large bird can perch on the top of a spruce tree, breaking off or bending down the leader. Don't worry too much about this. By mid to late August the leaders will turn upright. If the leader is broken, usually one, sometimes two of the side shoots will turn erect and take over as leader, although with some loss of length. Usually if two side branches turn erect, by the second year one will take over. If not, you may have more pruning to do. Spruce
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Will this fast growth affect the quality of the wood? I doubt it, but in any case I am not growing these trees for the wood. Most of them are part of the long screen I planted last year along our property line. I am a great lover of violin/string music, especially string quartets. It has long been a mystery how the wonderful violins by Stradivari (and some others) in the 17th century were made. No one has ever been able to match them. The tops are made from Norway spruce, and are supposed to be largely responsible for the wonderful sound. Now if someone wanted some wood to make a violin I would be agreeable!! A couple more observations. I have never seen this kind of growth on older, larger NS. I have about two dozen older and larger ones planted around here, and none have these summer shoots. And I havent seen it, to my knowledge, on the thousands I have on my timberland. Sometimes, standing far below, I have seen some kind of compensatory growth at the top of trees that have had a weevil attack, but I never had an opportunity to examine it closely. Occasionally I will see a few fresh needles develop at the tips of the leaders of larger trees, but there was little, if any growth involved. Also, there is no branching of any consequence, either on the shoots themselves, or at the point where they started to grow at the end of the original spring shoot. Dax: as for my white pine supertree--it is about 85 feet tall and pruned up to 35 feet or so. I would need a professional climber--and one who would not climb with spikes! gnomeabram: the growth I have on my trees looks something like yours when it is just starting. --Spruce
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Can you post other pics from different angles? Its tough to see whether there really is an issue or not. Better yet a level picture at ground level to see how this thing is sticking out of the ground would be best. Knowing Picea abies this plant should have rooted nicely after a full year in zone 6. You'll have to literally dig it out and reposition. Odds are if it settled to the degree you're stating, it probably has to be raised up on one side not just tilted. Again that picture of the trunk coming out of the ground will be telling.
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wisconsitom
9 years ago
All too true Spruce-those last two points. I must have a resident population of WP weevil working my plantation over. Some damage, others left alone completely. And it doesn't help, having white pines in the very same area, although as you've pointed out, it seems Norway spruce is an even more favored host. Happily, NS can and does re-leader quite readily, and with the fast growth rate, is able to make up for lost time reasonably well, it seems.

I've done no control so far. Have you done anything in your groves with regard to chemical control?

+oM
spruceman
9 years ago
Tom:

For a while, when the trees were smaller, I did nip off the tips to get the weevils, but my trees are way too tall now. I think doing what I did reduced the population some, but I'm not sure. In Winchester I planted a lot of white pines and Norway spruce trees, and there were no other white pines or Norway spruce anywhere near, but, in a few years, here came the weevils. I have had so much else to do here, I did not try to get the weevils this year.

But, as you say, Norway spruce handle the damage well, and usually re-establish a single leader. And, it seems they make up for the lost growth one year with better growth the next. But repeated weevil attacks do retard growth some.

No, I have not tried chemical control. My understanding is that the timing has to be exactly right--I read a bit about it at one time, but don't remember just how to decide when to do the treatments. Once the weevils enter and start eating their way down into the shoot, it is hard to get the pesticide to them.

--spruce
wisconsitom
9 years ago
Thanks Spruce. As has so often been the case, your experiences are a huge benefit to latter-day folks such as myself. And I'm in exactly the same boat as you....it's simply impossible to deal with everything, so to a large extent, things are free-range every step of the way.

I suppose-and this with no research-there would be a systemic product that could conceivably get at these weevil larvae, but there are problems with that too, not the least of which are unintended, off-target effects. Now granted, as a wind-pollinated pine family member, we're not likely to have lots of bees and other beneficial insects working the trees over, but that whole area is problematic to me. It seems the more we learn, the less I can justify such applications. So, somewhere within the thousands of NS we've planted, I hope for some to remain free of this pest. And I think it will work.

+oM
spruceman
9 years ago
Tom:

And the systemic chemicals can very expensive, depending, and time consuming to apply, especially if the trees have to be treated every year.

Yeah, NS do just fine on their own. The weevils will cause more trees to develop forks, and I dealt with that for a good while by climbing and cutting them out of the best trees. But I am, I think, past that now. I am a very vigorous 75, but climbing up trees that are now approaching 100 feet tall would be "pushing it" a bit for me now. Hah!

And, you will need to do some thinning at some point, so forked trees can be removed then. The weevils are not a big problem on NS.

--spruce

Norway Spruce growth rate question. First year 4".

spruceman

Comments (7)

jarpe

wisconsitom

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