the pine is TOTALLY bulletproof in my z5 .. and i consider pines to grow like weeds in MI ... you will love that plant ...

i do have various Pseudotsuga Menziesii, including Grace in my z5 MI garden .... some in spots exposed to winter sun and winter wind.. seem to struggle.. but they do survive ... so siting is imperative ...

but frankly.. for a newbie.. go with the pine ... love it.. it will reward you .. and you will be enabled ...

and try a zone pusher in a few years.. when you have more experience.. and have killed a few ... lol ..

the pine will need to be staked to the height you want.. and probably retied at least 3 or 4 times per year ...

so if you goal is say 6 feet .. go get an 8 or 9 foot stake.. and bam it in there .. so that for the next few years.. you can keep tying it upwards ...

once its trunk gets thick enough, the stake can be removed ...

it will have no inclination on its own.. to grow skyward ...

ken

I planted a Graceful Grace two years ago, and it's doing fine. P. menziesii seems to do better in my yard than P. strobus.

Strobiformis is considered by some experienced Colorado conifer folks to be a better performer than Strobus. So for a weeping pine, you might also consider P. strobiformis.

Hi Barb,

I ventured into the world of conifers several years ago and have managed to kill my share of them even though I made sure to get those for zone 5 or hardier. I think how you plant them is the most important factor in whether or not they will survive here in our heavy clay soils so I will be trying again this year with, I hope, a better planting strategy.

My latest victims are Picea abies 'Clanbrassiliana Stricta' and Abies lasiocarpa 'Glauca Compacta.' They seemed to do OK at first, but started to develop some browning needles by the fall; neither of them made it through the winter. I think I planted them at the wrong time of the year and not elevated above the soil line enough - the dreaded bathtub effect, they drowned.

The Pinus strobus pendula looks like a very nice tree; good choice! It does get large so give it plenty of room (one site said it grows 1 1/2 to 2 ft per year!)
{{gwi:660275}}

Holly

i linked you to the ACS ...

use the database.. first under pinus..

then under strobus.. check the growth rate..

then see if they list pendula specifically ... is it the same????

in this case.. pendula simple does not grow upwards ... but its growth rate remains pretty consistent ... [or it should.. i am being lazy]

at least 2 to 4 feet are possible.. once it gets its roots established ...

conifers.. and trees ... should be planted when they are dormant ... for best success ...

in my z5.. that is april or october ...

it will be very problematic if you order actively growing stock from a warm zone nursery.. and hope to plant it in a colder zone where it MIGHT be exposed to hard frosts or freezes ... and that complicates proper planting time .. its not about whether the plant can handle those temps as a mature tree.. its about shipping tender stock and then freezing it ...

link below to a good nursery from which i have had much success ... and is in z5/6 ...

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: should be on the pendula page ....

Planting while trees aren't dormant may be the problem I have had. Denver metro is in either zone 5 or 6. I have ordered some conifers; one place (Z6) doesn't begin shipping until after April 25th, another (Z4?) doesn't start shipping until after May 10th. Hopefully the trees will still be dormant....

Where will you be getting your conifer from, Barb?

Girard's looks like a pretty good nursery. I have looked at their web site before and am tempted to get one of their trees - Pinus banksiana 'Rochester Pendula' - since my Pinus banksiana 'Uncle Fogy' does very well here. Can't seem to find much info about this cultivar, however, and they don't even show a picture for it.

Holly

many grafters have a circle of friends ..... from which they get stock .. many of these friends are on the cutting edge of collection ...

so they graft them up ... and sell them ...

often these groups of peeps are aged 60+ [at 51 i still feel like a babe among them] ... lol .. what's a computer.. whats the internet????

though girards may have a web site.. that doesnt mean the fellow supplying the stock even owns a computer ... let alone a digital cameera ... ergo.. no pix.. little or no info ..

also ... there may not be a mature plant to take a pic of ....

you have one option ... CALL THEM ... most are tech savvy enough to have a phone by now ... rotflmbo ...

now is probably a pretty good time of year.. grafting is winding down .. and retail is still not open.. and you might get someone to answer the phone who actually knows the specific plant ...

dax and are euro guys are the new breed ... and actually own and know how to use a computer ... lol ...

just dont ever call stanley ...

regardless.. just order it .. what can they possibly tell you to make you NOT want it???? you are enabled.. and addicted.. just order it ...

ken

That was worth reading. 10 years ago while everybody else had computers I still wasn't sure if I wanted one. And a year prior to that I had a "cell phone". Now after the world convinced me that I "will die" on the side of the road w/o a cell phone in my vehicle, I own one I'm sorry to say... again.

Dax

I ordered from Forest Farm. I scheduled delivery for late April, but think that can be moved up. It's been cold and snowy in the NW, so I think they should still be dormant
I'm getting 1 gallon size on each of:
Pseudotsuga menziesii 'Graceful Grace' Weeping Douglas-fir
Abies concolor Glauca 'Compacta' Dwarf White Fir
Abies concolor 'Candicans' Silver White Fir
Pinus strobiformis (reflexa) S.w. White Pine
I just planted a 'Horstmann's Silberlocke' Korean fir last weekend on a 4 inch berm I made and plan to put' Compacta' and 'Candicans' in the same area. It's on the northeast side of the house, so it'll get morning sun and afternoon shade.
They do have 'Pendula' in the catalog, so I may be able to swap it out.
I'm convinced spring planting is the way to go here, we get weird fall temp swings. Dormant conifers can better withstand the spring blizzards we get and have 5 months or so to acclimate before the fall temp swings.
I'll spend some time studying the links.
Ken, Nate, Holly and Dax, thank you! You shameless enablers!
I am obsessed with trees and have 2 acres. Thankfully the budget only allows me to experiment so much each year.
I'll read up and come back with questions.
Barb

I planted a 6 gal. 'Graceful Grace' in the spring of 2010. A b&b from Iseli. Saw -12 F. Looks real good. No particular protection was afforded it.

Dave

ken: "regardless.. just order it .. what can they possibly tell you to make you NOT want it???? you are enabled.. and addicted.. just order it ..."
See how you are! Yes, I do seem to be addicted. And I have this whole fenced in area in the back of my small yard where I should be growing vegetables, but there are all of these conifers.... The "Rochester Pendula" thus goes on my list....

Barb - you are getting some nice trees! You will like that 'Horstmann's Silberlocke;' it does need some protection from our intense afternoon sun (at least that has been my experience) but it seems to like it here; mine has been doing fine for over two years now (I got my tree from Timberline Gardens in Arvada.)

I like Forest Farm but sometimes buying from Oregon nurseries you end up getting plants that expect to have warmer winter conditions and a lot more moisture than we do here in Colorado. I went looking for bamboos there one year; the guys at the nursery laughed at me when I said I was looking for bamboos that could survive in Zone 5! I hope you let us know how the concolors do. You have 2 acres to grow things on! Oh what I could do with that amount of land! (Probably end up in the poor house....)

By the way, Dax, ken and Nate are the enablers, not me - they just lead me astray, and I am apparently all too willing to be led! :-D

Holly

Location of supplier has no bearing on genetics of stock selected. If any example of a particular kind of plant is hardy in CO it makes no difference where the specimen obtained came from. Shipping in from a warmer zone only calls for caution when the difference in seasonal conditions at the time of shipping could affect results. For instance, plants coming from the south in more advanced, softer spring growth than the same kinds have that have been present locally long enough to be on the local schedule.

'Graceful Grace' was selected from two big examples discovered in a planting somewhere like PA. I think B. Fincham has given the story here on this forum in the past.

It produces leaves on the gray side, perhaps indicating it is derived from Rocky Mountain Douglas fir. Which is of course native to cold mountain climates in CO.

I think you've talked me into keeping Grace. I'll study up on the strobus/strobiformus weepers. Pendula will probably go on my next order, so Ken thanks again for the tips on staking. Don't you love giving someone perfectly sound advice and having them not take it?;o) Don't hold it against me, I value your opinions! I know I'm going to kill a few, so thanks for the warning.
I really appreciate all this info.
Now could you please send us some precip?
Barb

"Now could you please send us some precip?" Well we did get a nice wet snow last night - just not enough of it. I should have watered earlier this week but didn't... :(

Ken's staking advice is good. In some ways I wish I had staked up my Pinus banksiana 'Uncle Fogy' but I didn't, I just let it do what it wanted, which was to undulate along the ground in about two different directions at a height of 3' or less. It looks pretty cool, to me, but maybe just weird to others! (I'll have to post a picture one of these days.)

By the way - Ken's fault - I have ordered the Pinus banksiana 'Rochester Pendula' - this one I will stake if it needs it.

Holly