ken: "regardless.. just order it .. what can they possibly tell you to make you NOT want it???? you are enabled.. and addicted.. just order it ..." See how you are! Yes, I do seem to be addicted. And I have this whole fenced in area in the back of my small yard where I should be growing vegetables, but there are all of these conifers.... The "Rochester Pendula" thus goes on my list.... Barb - you are getting some nice trees! You will like that 'Horstmann's Silberlocke;' it does need some protection from our intense afternoon sun (at least that has been my experience) but it seems to like it here; mine has been doing fine for over two years now (I got my tree from Timberline Gardens in Arvada.) I like Forest Farm but sometimes buying from Oregon nurseries you end up getting plants that expect to have warmer winter conditions and a lot more moisture than we do here in Colorado. I went looking for bamboos there one year; the guys at the nursery laughed at me when I said I was looking for bamboos that could survive in Zone 5! I hope you let us know how the concolors do. You have 2 acres to grow things on! Oh what I could do with that amount of land! (Probably end up in the poor house....) By the way, Dax, ken and Nate are the enablers, not me - they just lead me astray, and I am apparently all too willing to be led! :-D Holly

A couple specimens of mine, a bit more established then Dave's and growing in their optimum environment. It will be interesting to note the growth rate over the years compared to specimens in other climates. -Will

Gosh, where is Salicaceae, hairmetal, etc? Is this forum slowly dying? I think provided the USDA zone was suitable, yes the hardier one (probably. P. sinensis) would be able to grow in most of Texas. Summer heat appears to not be a problem. However, a lack of H2O molecules and possible H+ ions could be a big problem in the long run. They come from monsoon climate where each summer month has at least 6" of rain. But hey, over on the fruit forum there's a dude in west TX who adds sulfuric acid (and plenty of H2O at times, too) to his super-alkaline soil to grow blueberries. So, where there's a will there's a way! Might make more sense to to find something a little more drought tolerant though. Scotjute (sp?) a poster here might have recommendations. I bet some of the heat tolerant firs like Abies cephalonica would be a better choice for your area if you want that look. Make sure it is an own-root seedling, though. The Asian Pseudostuga make more sense around Houston, etc. NB based on my experience last winter even P. sinensis is not quite fully zn 7 hardy. Although I said above that it only had burning near the snowline, in fact, some of the branches on the top of the plant appeared partially killed because they didn't sprout normally. The Sequoia semprevirens were slightly more visibly damaged by the cold, BUT, recovered faster over the year. Could be their hexaploid powers at work! LOL. Here is a link that might be useful: This post was edited by davidrt28 on Wed, Dec 10, 14 at 15:01

LOL! It was 58 on the "warm" side of my backyard today--thermometer is in the shade! Tomorrow will be over 60 for sure. The day before it got COLD last week it was over 60 on the warm side and I was out with short sleeves--and getting kind of hot when I was in the sun! Have I said before how much I LOVE Denver!?? The next day our high was at midnite---and it just kept getting colder all day! Had two nites at 0 here where I am, but other parts of the Metro area were below 0! Now it's back--officially--into the 50's, but "officially" is a little bit tricky here in Denver because the "official" comes from DIA which is halfway to Kansas! The actual Metro area is usually warmer than it is out at the airport. I don't pay much attention to the "new" zones 'cause any zones are just somebody's guess based on the averages for some given period of time. Before they ever came up with "a" and "b" I was just plain z5--and that's how I still think! I generally go with z5 stuff when I'm thinking of new stuff, but I will gladly go with z6 stuff if it's something I want. And if I manage to grow some perennial I wanted for a few years and then it dies---well, at least I had it for a few years! But actually (knock on wood!) I haven't yet had an "established" plant die over winter. If I put something in late, that first winter is when I tend to worry about them--but even then I haven't had anything die yet. On the other hand, every summer I have a couple plants abruptly keel over on me---for no apparent reason whatsoever! That's always frustrating because I usually have absolutely no idea what happened! But it's the same as if something died over winter--at least I had them for a while, and if it's something I REALLY wanted, I just try again! I've had some things that were recommended for the "warm side" of z6 make it, and some not! Sometimes I think it has little to do with absolute coldness. Many of the "new introductions" are still at least somewhat "unstable" since everybody is trying to get their stuff on the market as soon as possible, and in a lot of cases with the "new things" I think they haven't really been growing them long enough to have a realistic idea of how much cold they can take--they come up with a zone recommendation and get it on the market--so combine a maybe not very vigorous plant with a somewhat unknown cold tolerance and who knows if it's gonna survive! The standard zone map you linked above, HiAlt, doesn't let you get in close enough to know for sure what "they" think your zone is, so I still recommend using the "interactive" USDA Agricultural Research Service zone map I've linked a couple times before around here, where you can zoom right in to "street level" of your neighborhood and then click on the different zones on the top and left side to see what zones they say are where--by clicking them "on and off" it's easier to see just exactly where something starts and stops. They show me in zone 5b, but I still think "-20" when I'm looking at things--even tho I can't remember the last time it got that cold here--even at DIA! The interactive map shows Silt in 6a--but 5b sure isn't very far away! Especially in situations like yours--out in the mountains, I think it's best to pay attention to your own "private" neighborhood micro climate and plan based on what you and others around there have been able to grow--from what I've seen you do pretty well with your plants. And one other thing to consider is whether or not you tend to have snow cover during the coldest parts of the winter. If there's more than "a little bit" of snow, the air temperature is far less relevant than with bare soil. Snow insulates the soil to an almost perfect 32 degrees and the roots stay all nice and toasty! Just too many factors for the suits sitting in an office somewhere to take into consideration when they're deciding just exactly what zone each of us is in! And the other problem with "zones" is that if you look up any particular plant on several different sites you're very likely to find that different places "think" the same plant belongs in several different zones! On occasion I've found recommendations for the same plant ranging from z4 to z6 or even z7, tho that big a spread is pretty unusual. So I just start with my old z5 designation, and then decide if I'm gonna try it based pretty much on how expensive it is and how much I want it. If it's from seed I'll try pretty much anything! Virtually no money involved, and I get to have the fun of seeing it grow from seed--even if it doesn't make it later! If I were thinking of trees or expensive bushes I'd probably be a little more conservative. When it comes to growing veggies, I think Digit's "growing days" system is probably a better way to go for trying to figure out what "might" work for you--but even that is just a bunch of averages, and averages come from "somewhere," and that includes the extremely cold and the extremely warm years! For those of you looking for a "hardy" rosemary, yes, 'Arp' is (or at least was when I was still "in the industry") the most cold hardy one available--and that's one of the plants that comes with a wide range of "zone" recommendations! So if you're looking for one you can overwinter outside, 'Arp' is the one to try--I'd recommend picking one of your "nicest" warm micro-climate spots, definitely plant it in the ground, and plant it early in the year so it has the summer to establish a good root system. That's one I won't be trying! I think rosemary is one of the most disgusting things I've ever smelled! Sorry for the heresy, all you lovers of rosemary! Let's all just be happy we're not a zone 3 up in Canada! Skybird Here is a link that might be useful: USDA interactive zone map