Abies balsamea 'about as heat tolerant as an ice cube.'

13 years ago

Someone with a ton of plant knowledge (far, far more than me) who lives in 'The Wabash Valley' of IL said that - the odd thing is that it's by far the most prevalent fir grown here. They grow large and without pests. I don't understand it. The summer temps here are no hotter than what this guy sees and my soil really isn't any different than anywhere else in the state of Illinois, so what gives?

Dax

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (17)

dcsteg
13 years ago
Dax, are you saying you can't grow it?

It was my understanding you could grow all Abies.

Dave
gardener365
Original Author
13 years ago
No, he can't. I realize now after some searching that he is at the same latitude as you though Dave. I thought he was a little more north. Here's a map photo of the situation... maybe it can just be said that he doesn't live in fir country.

{{gwi:654000}}

Dax
Related Discussions
Favorite dwarf or small Abies
Q
Comments (9)
Thank you all for your favorites. I'm going to look into all of them and appreciate hearing about them regardless of if I can grow them or not. flattie, which do you like better A. lasiocarpa var. arizonica or A. concolor? Also, how large has your 'dwarf' and 'blue cloak' (or even the A. lasiocarpa var. arizonica)grown? Since, I already grow PiÃ±on, Opuntia(both KS native and SW natives), Junipers, Oaks(many native to NM and Mexico), and Banana Yucca, I'm sure I'll have no problems with any A. concolor. Apparently A. concolor does well here, even in our clay soils. Other than humidity and rainfall, I'd say my weather generally is quite similar to a lot of NM, so I often have good success with plants I see growing in Albuquerque for example. My biggest problem is that most Abies grow too large for where I can plant them. I noticed a few people around who have bought Abies koreana 'silberlocke' and they look to be doing quite well. The few I've seen for sale locally are a bit on the pricey side($350) because they are already large for the cultivar. I also like to see what other people say is their favorite Fir regardless of whether or not I'll ever attempt to grow their favorite.
...See More
Abies nordmanniana - drought tolerant?
Q
Comments (4)
Well, the different opinions may well be because of different zones/climates. Drought tolerance is relative, I am sure. Anyway, here near Winchester VA, a dry and hot Z6, we have a number or Nordmann fir growing in the Virginia Arboretum. They are about 70 years old and seem to be doing nicely, with one exception. One nice one has recently gone into a step decline. I don't know the cause, but it could be partly because of drought stress. But these trees have been surviving for 70 years and I am sure most, if not all of them, have not been watered during any droughts during the last many, many years. I have been growing three of these, but because they are small, I have been watering them during dry spells. I am pretty sure the Nordmann fir will do well in areas that are too hot and dry/drought prone for Faszier fir. But I very much doubt that they have drought tolerance anything like Norway spruce, which as far as I can see has excellent drought tolerance, but not tolerance for persistantly low rainfall/excessively well-drained soils. My opinion? --go ahead and plant the Nordamnn fir. I am sure they will do fine. But I would water them during dry spells for the first 4 to 6 years, depending on your soils and how fast they grow. My soils are of a kind that makes it difficult for some kinds of trees to become established and start fast growth (not Norway spruce, which takes off fast here), so I have been careful to protect my Nordmann firs from droughts, at least for now. --Spruce
...See More
Differing needs of Abies and Picea
Q
Comments (11)
Tom: Where am I? I am at my timberland, trying to clear the right-of-way for a road I am having constructed across the wetland that divides the front part of my land from the back. I have a bad back (spinal fusion in 1973), a right shoulder recovering from surgery, and now my left shoulder with an old rotator cuff tear acting up. I am a basket case but still struggling ahead. AAARRRGGH! the trials of aging! Well, as for this question, all I can offer is a weak theory. I have talked about the drought tolerance of NS here before, so I won't repeat it except to say it seems to me to be extreme. I have not observed enough fir trees to be able to make a comparison between Abies and Picea in any way at all. But what you describe seems to me to be potentially a soil/acid rain problem. A few years ago in parts of Germany there was lot of publicity for a problem with "forest death" --"waldsterben." In the Black forest, the main tree affected was Norway spruce. I am not familiar with the latest research on this, but at one time it was thought to be a result of sulphur dioxide pollution. I am not sure if the effect was something directly affecting the foliage, or if it was something that affected the soil and the availability of nutrients. If the latter, one theory was that some soils had more of a "buffering capability" than others. A local forester told me that the soils here in Garrett County, MD had a fairly good buffering capability compared to some of the soils in other areas affected by acid rain. To the east of here, where acid rain is not so much of a problem, the NS is doing exceptionally well in recent years. Here in Garrett county, in some areas it seems improved, in others it is much as it was 20 years ago. There is not enough Abies around here to make any observation at all. NS needs some fair amount of soil calcium and magnesium. If I had any NS in your area I would test the soil for calcium and magnesium, and if not at least moderately high, I would add a fair amount of "high-mag" pulverized limestone and see if after a few years there were not some improvement. If so, you might be closer to an answer. But of course, none of what I say here adresses your question about the comparison between Abies and Picea, unless Picea has a need for a higher amount of calcium and magnesium, of if Abies foliage is more resistant to sulphur dioxide. P.S. A quick google search turned up the information that two of the most affected species of waldsterben in Germany were NS and silver fir. --Spruce
...See More
Ice water/cubes to cool Arugula plants?
Q
Comments (2)
I've grown arugula for years here in the desert. I think getting the plants some shade, especially during the hottest part of the day, would solve both soil and air temps better than the temporary effect of ice cubes. When I grow my summer batch, I drag over my lawn furniture and place the slatted chair/lounge over the box so that it gets striped sun/shade. Slow growing, withering, yellow leaves could be a sun thing, but sounds more like a symptom of water (too much or inconsistent).
...See More
gardener365
Original Author
13 years ago
He grows concolor, koreana, etc- no problem.

Dax
famartin
13 years ago
It grows in NJ... at least, right now it does ;) Waiting to see how long they'll last, but for now they seem fine.
pineresin
13 years ago
As an aside . . .

"It was my understanding you could grow all Abies"

No-one can; the climatic requirements of Abies guatemalensis and Abies sibirica are mutually exclusive; where one can be grown, the other can't survive.

Resin
dcsteg
13 years ago
pine...you are technically correct. Those two Abies can't be grown together. I stand to be corrected.

I was referring to most Abies that can acclimate and be grown in the climate Dax resides in.

Not Abies guatemalensis grown in Central America or Abies sibirica grown is some remote place in Siberia.

Dave
salicaceae
13 years ago
I disagree - although there are few places where these 2 species could grow together, there are some places. For example, Berkeley, CA and Santa Cruz, CA are two places that stay cool enough for A. sibirica to be happy and warm enough in winter for A. guatemalensis. I am not sure if these are both at the UC Botanical Garden in Berkeley - but it is quite possible. There are certainly good specimens of other boreal spp. there including Betula spp and many tropical zone 9 or even zone 10 plants there as well.

There are probably some places in New Zealand where both could grow side by side as well.
pineresin
13 years ago
Hi Salicaceae - I'm going on the consistent failure of Abies sibirica anywhere in Britain except highland Scotland. I can't see it succeeding in Berkeley, or NZ, even if some other boreal continental species do succeed there (as they also do in Britain).

Resin
salicaceae
13 years ago
Resin - I guess you could be right. I have only seen a decent specimen of A. sibirica once. It grows in Minnesota - and even there it was stressed by heat and drought.
coniferjoy
13 years ago
Abies sibirica grows well here in The Netherlands.
We had Summer temperatures here between 30 and 40 degrees Celcius, but the main thing is for this species that the soil is always moist to avoid sun burning...
This is the one at my Pinetum.
{{gwi:654002}}
pineresin
13 years ago
"Abies sibirica grows well here in The Netherlands"

Do you have a verified wild seed origin for that plant?

Resin
coniferjoy
13 years ago
Unfortunately I don't know.
The only thing I can tell you is that this one is a seedling from which a lot of "children" are propagated by graftings...
pineresin
13 years ago
OK! Just to say, I am very dubious about its identity - it looks to be a hybrid, with a strong indication of Abies pindrow somewhere in its parentage.

Resin
coniferjoy
13 years ago
I don't think that it's a hybrid, I bought a couple of dozen of seedlings of this species about 10 years ago.
In the same time I also bought seedlings of other Abies species like Abies homolepis and Abies holophylla.
I know that this nursery man derives seeds straight from the countries were these species will live.

Abies pindrow is from the western Himalaya and lives not in the same enviroment with Abies sibirica so a natural cross between these seems not to be possible.

Do you think that Abies sibirica doesn't grow well in the Dutch climat?
I red that Abies sibirica grows very well in a moisty soil, the soil in my Pinutum is moist all year round.
I also have several witches'brooms of this species which are also doing very well.
These witches'brooms derives from Siberia...
gardener365
Original Author
13 years ago
I've some in containers, Resin said so far there's no reason to be (doubtful).

{{gwi:654004}}

{{gwi:654006}}

{{gwi:654008}}

Dax
gardener365
Original Author
13 years ago
Edwin, would you (or anyone) compare Netherlands climate to Portland, OR, USA, except with the difference of a somewhat colder winter... i.e. Amsterdam? I've been in Amsterdam during all four seasons & vividly recall a ton of "slush snow/rain misture" for about two-months. I spent December thru March there 12-years, ago.

Dax
gardener365
Original Author
13 years ago
Is the Netherlands by any stretch of the imagination 'Nursery Country'? The countryside I viewed from the Eurail I don't recall seeing any nurseries. I do vividly recall 'vividly' the interior of the Heineken Brewery. And there's a nice view of trees and of the city from above, at the brewery... especially when your glass is full. Delicious is the word I'm reaching for...

Dax

Abies balsamea 'about as heat tolerant as an ice cube.'

Comments (17)

dcsteg

gardener365
Original Author

Related Discussions

gardener365
Original Author

famartin

pineresin

dcsteg

salicaceae

pineresin

salicaceae

coniferjoy

pineresin

coniferjoy

pineresin

coniferjoy

gardener365
Original Author

gardener365
Original Author

gardener365
Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Abies balsamea 'about as heat tolerant as an ice cube.'

Comments (17)

gardener365Original Author

Related Discussions

gardener365Original Author

gardener365Original Author

gardener365Original Author

gardener365Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

gardener365
Original Author

gardener365
Original Author

gardener365
Original Author

gardener365
Original Author

gardener365
Original Author