Thanks for the recipes, I find that as interesting as the fruit. Those pictures sold me too, and the reviews, and Scott even though he sights the brown rot problem, always rated it high anyway. Any suggestions on how to handle brown rot prevention welcome. My tree is on Citation, but Lovell is available too. Depends what nursery you order from. I have observed that citation makes the trees have a larger caliper at a younger age. The trees look awesome. Lovell seems to produce slimer, but taller trees. I had Arctic Glo on both. The citation failed to branch low after a knee high cut. The tree was too old, my bad, my inexperience. I replaced with one on Lovell, and left the lowest structure on. So taller than knee high, but still can be kept small. I was also attracted to Arctic Glo and Red Raspberry (both nectarines) also because of the beautiful color, and the acid flavor. Here's a poor photo of Red Raspberry. " Developed by the California Rare Fruit Growers' Hybridizer Group. A rare nectarine with rich red flesh reminiscent of the old "Indian Red" peaches. It is the result of crossing red-fleshed peaches with white nectarines and re-crossing the subsequent seedlings. Small to medium sized fruit has dark burgundy skin with flesh streaked in red and a juicy, melting texture. The flavor is unique: rich and complex, very sweet but with a pleasant tartness similar to raspberry" I really wish i had more room. Maybe after I move I can add it. I will lose all current trees when i do, so they are certainly just experiments for now. I need to move in 4 or 5 years.

I'm assuming maples don't drop a lot of junk other than in the fall? ===>>> you almost made me cry on that one .. i was laughing so hard .... seed drop in spring.. the dam-ned helicopters ... is a curse worthy of an 8th plague.. not to mention the 8 or 10 billion seedlings ... i suppose it might matter what kind of maple.. but all the generic ones i have dealt with are problematic at best .... maybe if you find a sterile one .... then you said: This patch of yard gets sun from about 10 am to 7pm and it so hot and dry that I have a hard time getting grass to live through the summer. again.. based on those i have dealt with ... most maple will not support vigorous grass under them .... and the pic below shows why.. they are extremely shallow rooted ... and in 20 years or so.. you will be bouncing over those roots with the lawn mower ... it is an understatement to say I HATE MAPLES ... lol.. like most peeps here will testify .. can i have an amen.. lol ... but that is because i garden under trees ... and maples and a few others are the bane of growing just about anything ... now.. whether or not these things will happen in your lifetime.. is the key ... as most of my problems are from mature trees that were on the property when i moved in .... whether you will be there is 20 to 40 years.. when the real problems start .... well that is for you to answer ... my fallback.. in the choice of trees... is ALWAYS oak ... once they get going.. they can grow 3 to 5 feet per year... just under what a maple can do .... and frankly.. no matter what tree you opt for.. there will be a downside ... acorns.. helicopters.. fruit.. nuts .... barren soil underneath .. etc .... so it will all come down to simply your best choice... as i doubt you will ever find the 'perfect' tree ... IMHO ... the key to clay is simply the planting procedure.. allowing them to get established.. and once they do. they are fully capable of putting their roots where they want them ... for the most part ... good luck ken

If you live in Contra Costa County, take a trip to Orchard Nursery in Lafayette. You may not see what you want but the staff is very happy to try to locate unusual plants for you. I have been doing this for 20 years. Berkeley Hort carries a nice stock but they are often arrogant and unwilling to help you in your quest for the unusual. There seems to be a philosophy that they determine what's unusual or cool and stock it in their nursery. In addition, their prices are high. There is a tiny nursery in Moraga that has a very experienced nurseryman (and plant propagator) who might know the best sources for your trees. I believe the name is simply Moraga Nursery.

I've had pears, peaches, figs, persimmons, and citrus in close to a full shade area before, and all of them have produced. With that said, my persimmon tree actually grew out toward the sun so much until it was ready to fall over. The roots were coming out of the ground. We had to do some severe pruning on the tree or it would have fallen down completely in the next couple years. Pears - our pineapple pear has produced in the shade for many years as well, and although it hasn't fallen over, it still tends to want to grow toward the sunlight, making it look fairly ugly over the years. About 8 of the citrus trees we have are planted in full or partial shade, shaded by the house, oak trees, bald cypress, river birch, and red maples, and they seem to do well with very little pruning. The peach tree we had produced well for many years, but it was always kind of leggy in the shade. Last, our fig trees have always grown in a good amount of shade, and they usually have a good crop 8 or 9 out of ten years or so. They don't have a huge problem with the shade because of being heavily pruned every year. So, they don't have a chance to go leggy.