Don't know Work of Art, but the others are wonderful. Gourmet Popcorn is a fabulous little shrub, always in bloom & really looks lovely. Marie Pavie is also a very pretty landscape rose. However I would suggest Bolero instead of Glamis Castle. Bolero is more fragrant & blooms more (although it takes a few years to really take off).

This is a recent post about Marie Pavie that might be of interest to you.

I looked for Bolero on 'HelpMeFind' and they list a Hybrid Tea and a Floribunda. Are they the same rose with a mistaken ID? It's also listed as hardy to 6b. I'm in 6a and usually try to get something that is hardy to at least a zone lower than me, like 5a. The photos show a very pretty rose!

York Rose, your link suggests that in New England it might get BS. Not something I'd like to deal with if I can help it. Too bad, it sounds like a great rose. Thanks for the link, I guess I could have searched the posts before posting.

BTW, I'm wanting to include a couple of new roses in a mixed bed with perennials in full sun for next season and my concerns would be....

#1 Disease Resistance
#2 Fragrance, strong
#3 Repeat or continuous bloom

If anyone has a different suggestion, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks!

Bolero is a floribunda & if you plant the graft 2" below the ground it should do fine.

I recently shovel pruned my Glamis Castle because of its truly wicked thorns. It's a reasonably okay rose otherwise, but I also should have planted Bolero instead, which I think is much more beautiful and a better rose. I would recommend Glamis Castle only to your worst enemy....

There are a couple of different 'Bolero', which makes it confusing. Meilland used the same name for a 1997 HT.

You probably want the 2004 version, aka 'Bolero 2004' (Meidelweis). Fragrance is indeed strong and sweet, with excellent rebloom. Disease resistance fairly good, superior to 'Glamis Castle'.

Excellent disease resistance on 'Gourmet Popcorn'.

Another to investigate is the polyantha 'Little White Pet' aka 'White Pet', which is fragrant, has great rebloom and disease resistance, and is very tough.

Here is a link that might be useful: blog post on shorter white roses

On your list the only one that I can heartily recommend is Gourmet Popcorn. In my zone it eventually reached 6+ feet tall in about 10 years. It was very vigorous, so even though we don't have the same growing conditions keep its height in mind as the years pass by. Exceptionally prolific in the spring with flush after flush. Very disease resistant. A real charmer. Deserves its ARS rating of 8.7

Another vote for Gourmet Popcorn - I have 2 hedges of this out by the street. They never get sprayed, and I have not seen any disease on them. Once a year I prune them with hedge clippers, which they seem to like. They bloom continuously (are blooming right now) with such lovely clusters of tiny white roses.

The only bugs I have ever seen on them are rose curlios (sp?), which you probably don't have - I think they are a CA phenomenon. They are little beetles the size & color of lady bugs, except that they have very long noses which they use to poke holes in small rose buds. Then they put in eggs, and the buds die and never open. Ugg!

Also love love Little White Pet - it is a smaller rose, gets max about 2 feet high in full sun in my garden. Nice rounded shape, lovely very double small blooms, is in bloom all of the time (also blooming right now). Also never gets sprayed and has no disease.

Jackie

Anyone from the Mid-Atlantic or Northeast have any thoughts about these roses? They may be terrific roses in California, but horrible in climates with heavy blackspot pressure. I don't know myself.

White Pet (aka "Little White Pet") does well without spraying (mine is in the no spray backyard wasteland), maybe 20% defoliation, but blooms very well.

Gourmet Popcorn was a blackspot nightmare for me.

A friend not far from here says that Marie Pavie does well for her, and she does not spray.

Bolero ("Bolero 2004") also does well here no spray, and it is fragrant.

I'm in zone 10 but I have work of art. I was surprised that I needed to put it on a trellis. It got really long branches with flowers on the end. It really isn't as pretty as I was hoping.

Well York I'm not in California and have just about as much trouble with blackspot as any other southerner due to our long growing season, heat+humidity. My B.S. history with Gourmet Popcorn is this; she is highly disease resistant. That means that she was so disease resistant to BS that I kept cutting down on her spray schedule until I tried to go totally spray free with her for one whole growing season. That didn't work out. She needs to be sprayed during prime BS season every 2-3 weeks (which worked out to about 2 or 3 times a year). In my climate that's very very good. There's like 8 different races of blackspot, and maybe up in Diane's neck of the woods (more around your area then mine) just the right BS race is there to make her very susceptible to the disease unlike here where she is only lightly susceptible to whatever races we have.

Yorkrose, thanks for looking out for me. :-) I forgot that different parts of the country have different experiences with disease.

IâÂÂm so glad I posted, because I was almost going to just order them yesterday. I was trying to get an order together from Pickering before they sell out of some of the varieties. So, IâÂÂm starting to think I need to throw out my list and start over again. I donâÂÂt spray at all. Any sign of blackspot or powdery mildew that causes the foliage to look awful for too much of the time and IâÂÂve yanked a couple of roses out, the year after I bought them. I donâÂÂt enjoy the disappointment.

pelicanhead, IâÂÂve had a rose that performed that way with the long branches with flowers at the end, thanks for letting me know. I did notice in the photo on PickeringâÂÂs site, that it was planted in a container and the branches were hanging over the side.

Pickering doesnâÂÂt have Bolero, but I will keep it on my list and maybe look for it elsewhere. That sounds like the only one to consider. IâÂÂll post another thread, when I get a better list going. Thanks.

To me, going no spray means a bit of a different mindset. There will be very few roses that will stay spotless in my area. So, I think in terms of what happens if the plant does get a bit of blackspot. Does it cover the plant? How much defoliation occurs? Am I willing to lose a few leaves while the majority are healthy? In those terms, I have more options. Now, I will spray, but have gotten lazier about it over the past few years.

You make a good point, Diane. I'm experimenting to see what I can live with but just trying to find the most disease resistant for my garden. I have been gardening organically since the late 1980s and I avoided roses until the last 4yrs because I thought I couldn't grow healthy roses without chemicals. I tried a Knock Out Rose and it was very easy and disease resistant but it was like a 'tease'. [g] It made me want a 'real' rose all the more. So, I've been experimenting for a few years.

I've had a Penelope that did well for a couple of years so I branched out and tried a David Austin 'Celebration', 'Rhapsody in Blue' and a white Meidland. the white meidland was shoveled prune in the second season with bad blackspot. I still have the others and they do pretty well. I've had some foliage issues in mid summer and choose to prune them severely and let them grow back and I get a small flush of bloom. So essentially my experience with them is like a once bloomer.

Then last year, I bought from Pickering for the first time. I bought an Alba, Mme Plantier, 'New Dawn', 'Julia Child' and another David Austin 'Harlow Carr'. I thought they all had a decent first season and I'm looking forward to next spring. Julia Child grew and bloomed well in a large container and the foliage was great. Mme Plantier managed to push out about three blooms and that was it. 'New Dawn' had a couple of small blooms on it and looked great most of the summer, but right now, the foliage looks spotted. The Harlow Carr shows a lot of promise. It remained tiny last year, because I planted it in part sun and a nearby Baptisia grew over it, but as tiny as it was, it pushed out very pretty pink blossoms all summer, one at a time. The foliage looked great all season.

So I think I am finding a few things that work ok for me. And those that have shown some problems seem to respond to pruning and then I only get one good flush of bloom. But I'm on a mission to find something I won't have to prune back due to foliage issues. [g]

What you really need to do is to look at roses in the area--such as the University of Rhode Island that has a "no spray" rose garden. You might also luck out at nurseries--if you see something that is clean amid a sea of diseased roses late in the selling season--it is well worth investigating further.

With New Dawn I think you'll probably find that most of the time it has little blackspot, but that it may start spotting as September moves on into October and November, when the bush is winding down for the year.

maryl, thanks for the extra info. about Gourmet Popcorn. That long, hot, humid summer doesn't usually happen where I live (July & August are dependably warm, with hot spells in the 90's of a week or less here and there during that time). Sometimes that has a big impact on a rose's health. I very much doubt I could ever grow a truly vigorous China, Noisette, or Tea rose here (with maybe one or two exceptions) because the summer isn't really warm enough, long enough for them to be happy.

York, what would you consider the exceptions to be for vigorous heat loving roses in your zone? I know that Krista in upstate NY, zone 4, grows Duchesse DB . It dies back every year, but comes back, from what I understand her to say.

I found someone up here that grows Mons Tillier and Marie Van Houtte; just wondering what your experience is with teas, etc.

Prairie Moon, I grew Mme. Plantier in the south; she is the only alba that I thought might do well in zone 7, north Alabama. She is a once bloomer and takes a couple of years at least to come into her stride. The fragrance is lovely.

Do you grow any other once bloomers?

I have no experience with warm climate roses.

I have no experience with teas. Chinas just don't grow. Imagine Mutabilis about 18" tall after three years, and very blackspot prone. They have their points for a fairly experienced grower who wants something different. For someone looking for a good plant, well....

Prairiemoon, if you lived closer, I'd drag you over here. There really isn't any substitute for seeing the roses in person. For one thing, so many photographs are flower closeup, and it's hard to get a feel for the whole thing.

A lot of the very blackspot resistant roses get cercospora in the fall. That's probably what you were seeing on New Dawn.

If you have room for something large, have you looked at Karl Forster?

Thanks zack, good idea, I wanted to get to that Rhode Island rose garden last summer but didnâÂÂt make it. I have done that buying a rose at the end of the season that looked good. ThatâÂÂs how I got my âÂÂGolden CelebrationâÂÂ.

yorkrose, isnâÂÂt that interesting about the New Dawn. I can live with that, if it looks good the rest of the season. I wonder what it is spotting with, do you happen to know?

mad gallica, I wish I lived closer and IâÂÂd happily be dragged! :-) You must have a GOR-geous rose garden! You are right about seeing them in person. I donâÂÂt get a chance to do that often at all. When I was growing up, we summered along the Massachusetts coast and I remember a house we visited often that had roses in the garden and I can still remember the pleasure I had from the fragrance and how beautiful they were. ItâÂÂs amazing how long an experience can stay with you and roses are one of those things that can do that. Well, if IâÂÂm ever planning a trip to New York, donâÂÂt be surprised to get an email requesting a tour. :-)

I just looked up the Karl Forster on HelpMeFind. What a pretty white rose! I am surprised to see it was bred by Kordes in 1930. I always like to see the description âÂÂvery vigorousâ too. Thanks for that suggestion.

IâÂÂll have to take a photo of the foliage on the New Dawn and post it, tomorrow.

Prairiemoon, I so envy you Harlow Carr. I had this rose and thought it was absolutely gorgeous and it thought that in my hot, dry climate it was supposed to drop its petals after half a day. It definitely seems to like cooler weather. Were it otherwise I'd probably have at least four or five bushes of Harlow Carr. I hope it continues to do well for you.

Ingrid

Thanks Ingrid, I'm so happy to hear you liked it. I do have it planted in about 5 hrs of sun, and it still bloomed. I thought the blooms lasted a few days if I remember right. I wonder if having it in less sun preserves the bloom? As I said, it was from bare root last year and it was very small, so this coming season will give me a better idea of how much it will bloom in that location. I do have the option of moving it into full sun if I need to.

If you extend the Mass/Conn state line to the Hudson River, that is very close to where we are. If you are in the area and want to visit, do let me know. There are also a lot of Great Estates open to the public that have gardens to visit.

Thanks mad gallica, I definitely will! It sounds like you have a nice area to garden in. Do they hold Conservancy Day Tours in your area? Have you ever thought of having your rose garden on the tours?

Another one you might consider -- although, I can't vouch at all for hardiness -- is a J&P rose called 'Blossom Blanket'. I have BS with all the ones you say you do, and so Blossom Blanket came to mind. No BS here, constantly in bloom, although he starts late for me. No fragrance. Big ole blooms with age, though. I get no pink tones, just white. It gets taller than they say here, but what doesn't, lol?

Gourmet Popcorn was a blacksport disaster in 6b. I dug it out the second year. Sorry

Thanks meredith, I'm keeping no fragrance roses off my list, too bad, it's a very cute one.

Gourmet Popcorn, another cute one that seems to be a health problem for a number of people. Thanks lainey.