Melissa, you and your husband continually amaze me with the amount of sheer hard work you put into your garden. This latest episode seems above and beyond what most of us could or would want to endure. It makes planting anything in our garden seem like a lovely walk in the park by comparison. I hope these roses will reward you with fabulous bushes and blooms. No one could deserve it more.

I read recently that global warming will manifest itself in Europe by the weather actually becoming colder and wetter, although I'm not sure how much the southern part of Europe will experience that. I remember Niels' post last year when in the beginning of June his roses were covered with frost, something he'd never experienced in his lifetime. I fear that the Chinese curse of living in interesting times may be coming true with a vengeance in regard to climate change.

Ingrid

Oh, Melissa, I whine about having to dig my holes in sand and all the amending I have to do. I'm not sure I'd have your fortitude. And I know I would never attempt to plant as many at the time as you are. Ten at the time is my limit.

I admire you, Melissa ... that many roses in the cold and thick clay mud? It's cold and rainy here ... at least we don't have snow yet.

I don't mind gardening in the cold, but wet mud is a pain, they glue to my shoes and I have to scrape off with a knife. I sympathize with you.

Wowsers!!!! 78 bareroots! As much as I love ordering from places that offer them here, I always tend to keep my bareroot orders to less than 10 at a time. Just the time crunch when they arrive kills me, and with the potted roses, I can just work on planting them wheneve I have time! I bet that was a workout for you...congrats on the order though, I bet your garden wil be even more beautiful than it already was! :)

Tammy

WOW! Please post pics--in the Spring, if not sooner.

Colleen

I'm glad to hear that there is someone as looney as myself out there, LOL!I can't do so many roses in just a day or two as you and your DH did; I do everything by myself,my garden is far from my house, etc; but the cold, slippery mud,the getting home exhausted, all that stuff I know too well! I also always worry whether or not I did an adequate job, too, Melissa; when you are working under somewhat stressful conditions,I think it's probably normal.
So far this fall I've planted out about 48 bare-roots; still have about 15 to go, along with a few I dug up because I didn't like their placement. Now, I'm a bit worried; we had snow, and I'm not sure whether I'll be able to drive out to my land safely yet. The main roads have been salted, but there are icy areas on these minor roads, and most of the road I have to travel to get to my land (not a main road) is north-facing... I want to get these roses planted;they've been just hanging around for a couple weeks at this point!!!I also have a worry about a small order I placed with a German company; apparently the bank payment still has not arrived (today makes 2 weeks , I think, since my DH made the payment).But if /when I get these roses,that will bring my total of new bare-roots to 56...so you still are ahead, LOL!
By the way, what do the Petrovic plants look like, Melissa? Are you pleased with their size and quality? I, too, would LOVE to see photos of your garden! best wishes, bart

Oh, my goodness, Melissa! I can't imagine. I bundle up and hunker down in the house when it hits 50!! Your huge number of bareroots to plant is mind-boggling to me, but even more astonishing is how you can plant them when it's really winter. The weather put you in a terrible bind, but I'm confident that they will succeed (because YOU did it). I didn't know it was possible for plants to survive winter without benefit of being established before winter. Do you have to do any special protection after you get them in the ground? Maybe the clay being so wet is a good thing? Maybe not? I didn't know this was possible and would love to be educated about it, but I'm so glad I don't face such strenuous gardening conditions and will never have to use what I learn. You really will have to get your camera out - just point and shoot. It's important to record such a monumental accomplishment. (Sorry for all the questions.)

When you come in for your rest break, check out my link of this morning's blog post loaded with December blooms - great timing, right? Hopefully, they'll strengthen you for the remaining work - along with a some hot soup.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Sherry,

What a pleasure to see your beautiful roses on a cold rainy afternoon here! What is the flower that is third from the bottom on your pictures going down the right side of the screen? It looks something like a daylily but the coloring is like nothing I have seen before.

Cath

Thanks, Sherry, for update on your blog. I enjoyed it last year, but haven't visit lately thanks to GoogleChrome which shows tons of roses' pics. when I click on IMAGE tab on any rose's name. BTW, I love your questions, it makes me use my 2-years of chemistry plus my B.S. to figure out. I need a mental challenge, I regress mentally after watching too many Adam Sandlers movies with my kid, like the one he's thrown up-side-down into a chariot, and he exclaimed, "I see Rome, I see France, I see my golden underwear." My kid keeps repeating that line forever.

Hi Melissa: I like your approach half-rotted hay in the bottom of the hole to fix clay. That's what I would do. NPK of alfalfa hay is good, 2.45 N, 0.5 P, and 2.1 K ... compare that to NPK of cow manure 0.29-0.07-0.1 and of horse manure NPK 0.4-0.17-0.3 ... so alfalfa hay is quite high in nitrogen and potassium, and surpasses both cow manure and horse manure in phosphorus.

I found a paper that documented the break-down of afalfa hay: it depends on the cuttings, the young hay with more leaves break down faster than the older hay with fibrous stem. I'll report the values for oldest hay, or 3rd cutting: it's 50% decomposed in cold weather versus only 39% in warm weather, and it's 41% nitrogen lost for a 30-days period. So it would make sense to topdress with fresh hay so nutrients would leach down to the soil, then use half-rotted hay, with half-nitrogen, for the hole. Nitrogen is mobile and moves with water, versus less mobile potassium, and most stay-put phophorus .... which makes sense to put hay in the planting hole for maximum access to potassium and phosphorus.

Below is a link to how long it takes for alfalfa hay to break down ... if you scroll down to the bottom, you'll see tabulated data for cold weather vs. warm weather, and the percentage of nitrogen lost in 30-days period.

Here is a link that might be useful: USDA Gov. on alfalfa decomposition

Cath, I had to google to find it since I don't remember things that far back. The red flower is Gladiolus 'Atom'. It was partially successful here unlike most other gladioli. They're never strong enough to stand upright even before the blooms come. I think it may have come back the 2nd season but not since. It was a very striking flower that I liked very much.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Strawberryhill, I LOVE your sense of humor (and good sense), kids bring us so back to earth, don't they, LOL!

Mellissa, "the Serbian order..." that sounds so romantic and exotic, conjuring images of 1930s black and white spy movies. The fact that it's an actual order of roses also has a whiff of glamour. Could you drop a few names? I'm wondering if they sell plants that we never hear about over here.

Laura

Update--
Thanks for the messages, folks! We still have the three climbers to plant that we had not dug holes for, but the rest are done, and thank goodness. Over the three days we worked, daytimes temperatures rose a bit, and by the third day the ground was no longer frozen, but in exchange the glop was even worse. Also, as we went lower on the long double line we were planting, we encountered a problem we'd never seen before: water in the holes. Most of our land is so steep that, even with very heavy soil, drainage isn't a problem, but in this low flattish area it was. We learned on the fly: we planted the roses high and built up the area around them, dug drainage trenches leading out of the planting holes, and added plenty of hay to make the ground less compact. Now we'll see how they do, though I know more work is needed in that area and I suspect we'll have to dig a trench for drainage. Not now though.
We were lucky in our weather: the sun shone the whole time we were working, which helped my mood a lot, and it needed it. By 11 a.m. the temperature was fine. It was only the first day when we tried to work earlier that our hands and feet froze, then we learned to eat lunch at 10 a.m. and start later but then work through the warmest part of the day. Two pairs of gloves and fleece-lined boots plus heavy socks were essential.
Ingrid, chilly, wet, but mild winters are normal here; I hope that we won't get damaging cold, that would be an unpleasant novelty. Our garden is warm even by local standards: being steep and southfacing, it's the first place in the area where the snow melts. I do place my tender roses in the warmer parts of the garden, too.
Strawberryhill, I remember you writing about the beneficial effects of hay. It looks like we lucked out: the locally available, cheap amendment that no one else wants is just what our soil needs! Great!
Floridarosez, we all have our situations we have to deal with: you may not have clay and cold, but then you have to fertilize and amend forever. It's going to be a lot of work, but in time these roses will be largely looking after themselves.
All the same, I appreciate the moral support!
Bart, I'm curious to know what roses you ordered, and from whom. I see that I'm not the only one who's been busy, AND you've been doing it on your own! My husband is the muscle and determination in our gardening, so you beat me on effort and labor, if not number of roses planted.
The roses looked dry to me, and a few were small, most a good size. The rootstocks were the most enormous carrots! But it's been several years since I've seen grafted bare-root roses. I shall be watching them with interest over the winter, and the proof of the pudding, of course, will be when spring comes and they begin budding out.
--The following is a digression--
Roads in the shade are icy here, too. Yesterday my husband went to pick up our daughter at the bus stop: she rides the local bus back from Fiorenzuola that passes through Lugagnano and continues on into the hills to San Michele. The bus is public but its main function is to get kids to middle school and high school. Five minutes after DH leaves my daughter calls: the bus isn't running; she has to take a different bus; DH has to go to Lugagnano (11 kilometers in the opposite direction) to pick her up. I can't contact my husband; daughter is stuck in town. Turns out that the bus didn't take its usual route because of the snow (all two inches of it that fell three days earlier) and the steep hills, so they bypassed all of Antognano, Vicanino, Rustigazzo. These are small places, but there are schoolkids who live here! AND the bus is going to do the same thing every time it snows, because they can't put chains on the buses because the mudguards are too low.
Okay, I'm mad. This is so typically Italian: the lack of planning, the lack of forethought, the lack of a sense of responsibility toward contractual obligations, etc. etc. No wonder this country is on the edge of bankruptcy. And no wonder the hills and mountains (which happen to make up most of Italy) are still losing population: it is really a major task to get a child to school here. As long as it's so hard, these areas are going to be inhabited by middle-aged childless bachelors and retired old folks, and no one else. (This is not an exaggeration: the hills are full of ghost towns.)
--End of digression--
Back to roses.
Sherry,
In spite of our ice and snow, short winter days and prolonged chilly weather, our winter temperatures are in the Zone 8 range, which for roses is quite mild. The coldest temperatures I've seen here have been in the low teens, and we had a foot of snow on the ground then. None of my roses took any damage. Generally speaking it's best to plant in the fall here, so that plants have all winter and spring to grow roots before the summer heat and drought arrive. I try to get all my plants in the ground by Christmas. This rule might not always work; perhaps one year we might have extreme dry cold, for example; but usually fall planting works best for us.
Hey, I like your questions; isn't that what this forum is all about? Congratulations on your flowers! we actually had quite a few roses in bloom until a couple of weeks ago. And I noticed just yesterday that 'Sanguinea' has buds.
Laura,
Hello! I plan on posting the entire list of roses, but can tell you that they're all varieties available in western Europe, though many of them are fairly rare. I bought them from this nursery because of the low prices and impressively large collection, and because the nursery is established and has a good reputation, though I'm not sure if the roses in late years have been as good as earlier. My answer here turned out longer than I expected--I do talk a lot--and so I'll post the names of the varieties later.
Melissa

Melissa, you and hubby are my hero's! I updated my list of roses and it is under 50. And I know I spent days digging a few of those holes.

No WAY could I do as many as both of you! I think I would be frightened of the task. (I use a power auger to plant daff bulbs and they are small and I do nothing with the small hole other than drop a bulb and cover.)

I hope you can get some spring photos.

I have bookmarked Petrovic's site and gloat over his HP's and bourbons once in a while, plus he has Cynthia Brooke, an older yellow HT I've been wanting for a long time. I don't think I'll order from him though unless I can share a shipment with a friend. The added cost of 30 euros for the phytosanitary certificate means I shall have to order more roses than I really need.

The roses planted:
Warner shrub roses with a blotch (Hulthemia hybrids)
'Bright as a Button',
'Chewdelight'
Albas
'Amelia'
'Blanche de Belgique'
'Sappho'
'Suaveolens'
Centifolia
'Paul Ricault'
'Reine des Centfeuilles'
'Rose de Meaux Blanc' (tiny plant)
Polyantha
'Cecile Brunner'
'White Cecile Brunner'
Portland
'Delambre'
'Marbree'
'Rembrandt'
'Rose du Roi a Fleurs Pourpres'
Gallica
'Aimable Rouge'
'Anais Segales'
'Antonia d'Ormois'
'Assemblage des Beautes'
'Belle des Jardins'
'Bella Doria'
'Belle de Crecy'
'Belle Helene'
'Conditorum'
'Cosimo Ridolfi'
'Cramoisi Picote'
'D'Aguesseau'
'Daphne'
'Duc de Guiche'
'Gil Blas'
'Gloire des Jardins'
'Hippolyte'
'Kawkaskaja'
'Nanette'
'Oeillet Flamand'
'Oeillet Parfait'
'Onex'
'Orpheline de Juillet'
'Paeoninerose'
'Pompom de Panachee'
'Rote Krimrose'
'Sissinghurst Castle'
Species
R. haemospherica
Climber
'Bouquet d'Or'
'Cl. Crimson Glory'
'Cl. Souv. de la Malmaison'
Moss
'A Longs Pedoncules'
'Comtesse de Murinais'
'Crimson Globe'
'Duchesse d'Abrantes'
'Gabrielle Noyelle'
'General Kleber'
'Gloire des Mouseux'
'Goethe'
'Golden Moss'
'James Veitch'
'Jeanne de Montfort'
'Mme. Moreau'
'Rene d'Anjou'
'Sophie de Marsilly'
'Soupert et Notting'
'Zoe'
Bourbon
'Kronprinzessin Viktoria'
'Lewison Gower'
Hybrid Perpetual
'Baronne Prevost'
'Syonie'
'Yolande d'Aragon'
'Anna de Diesbach'
'Empereur du Maroc'
'Eugene Furst'
'Georg Arends'
'Gloire de Ducher'
'Gloire Lyonnaise'
'Henry Nevard'
'John Hopper'
'La Reine'
'Marguerite de Roman'
'Mme. Louise Piron'
'Paul's Early Blush'
'Souv. de McKinley'
'Souv. de Mme. Corval'

Wow Melissa. That list is amazing.
It took me back to my teenage years when I first started finding out about old roses.
I had to go and get my Manual of Shrub Roses by Graham Stuart Thomas to see what he had to say about some of them.
I must tell you what he said about a couple of them.

Belle de Crecy Gallica 5ftx3ft Mauve Midsummer
A nearly thornless,lax shrub, with dark green leaves. The arching branches are covered with perfectly formed flowers, each exhibiting a button eye. From the rich cerise pink of the half opened flower, to its eventual soft uniform Parma violet, it is as nearly perfect as any. Very fragrant.
Prior to 1848.

Georg Arends 1910 Hybrid Perpetual 5ftx3ft Pink Perpetual
Frau Karl Druschki x La France
It is not surprising that, with such distinguished parents, this rose should be a superlative beauty. No other pink rose raised since has flowers of similar beauty. Each petal rolls back in a beautiful way, and the flower, from the scrolled bud to the blown bloom, retains its clear, strawberry-ice pink. The cream is mixed in the reverse of the petals.
"Druschki" growth and foliage. Delicious scent.

Doesn't he make you NEED them?
Lucky girl.
Daisy

photos please!

Melissa, that's an impressive list of OGRs - please keep us informed. Thanks.

What a Herculean task! I know well about clay and steep hills. Do you always put hay in your planting holes? I would never have thought of doing that. The list is wonderful. May they all do well.

Sherry,

Thank you for the information on your gladiola 'Atom'. It's a beauty.

Cath

Melissa,
I love your choice in roses. I moved from Seattle to near San Francisco, and miss the choice in Gallica roses I could grow here.

and concerning the climate;
One night I complained, while talking on the phone to a freind who lives in Alaska, about it being cold here;
"It's down to fifty degrees" I said.
"Below?" She answered.
That was the last time I, as a Californian, will ever complain to a Northerner about the weather here. I'd forgotten what it was like on the homestead when windchill brought temps to 80 below F.

Lux

Daisy, I brought out my copy of G.S. Thomas's book and consulted it when I was making up my order. I agree totally about the appeal of his writing: Thomas is an excellent descriptive writer, who makes you fall in love with roses simply through clear sober description, rather than by employing purple prose. He's a model stylist.
Kippie and Marianne, thanks for your comments. Kippie, DH and I are not the only ones working in the garden; I know you've had plenty to do and have done it well. Your place sounds like it's a lot of fun. Marianne, I'll keep your comment about 'Cynthia Brooke' in mind. Who knows if one day I might have it? a cutting exchange, perhaps? I seem to recall you have 'Radiance'.
Pam, yes, we regularly amend with old hay, the more rotted the better. I'm coming around to thinking that Strawberryhill is right, that hay works but that peat-based potting soil as an amendment in our soil is a bust. I do try to keep the hay away from direct contact with the roots, which get a kind of clay "sleeve", but then fill the hole with alternating layers of clay and hay. With the increased volume and reduced compactness we end up with a greater volume of soil, so that we can better terrace up the planting hole. This helps drainage in wet weather and also retains water when it rains in dry periods. We employed this method last year for our fall planting, and the roses did well with it, and the soil looks good.
I imagine you have some tricks of your own: do you have any advice?
Lux, You're right, of course, and though I've lived all my life in various Zone 8's I have been some places where it got genuinely cold. BUT, such cold as Italy gets, it leverages to the max. Right now we're in the middle of an unusually chilly December, and when the temperature is only about 30F, but never warms up; when the puddles are frozen, the sky is a lowering gray, the landscape is covered with snow; when the roads are icy and you have to drive with chains, and you get about eight hours of dim daylight and have to keep the wood stove roaring every waking hour, LORD it feels cold.
By the way, we were actually rather lucky concerning our weather when we planted the roses: it was the only time this month that conditions were tolerable for working outside.

Yeah, weather in Italy at this time of year can be kind of gloomy; just so DANK,if you know what I mean. But I am so grateful that this year it IS really raining,after all that long drought.And I certainly do NOT prefer the relentless heat and drought of the excessively long summers!!!
I'm looking forward to hearing how those Petrovic roses do for you, Melissa. A few small plants in an order of 78 doesn't seem to me a problem, though your comment that they "seemed dry" makes me feel a bit more skeptical. I would like to order from them; the low prices would encourage me to take the plunge and finally try some gallicas, for example.
As for a list of the roses I put in ...
from Lens:
3 Mme Solvays
3 Louis Mon Ami
2 John Davis and one each of the rest:
Mme Isaac Pereire
Mme Ernest Calvat
Louise Odier
Blush Noisette
Narrow Water
Bleu Magenta
Rose Marie Viaud
Blossomtime
Clbg. Alberich
Cardinal Hume
Munstead Wood
Mamouche
Guirlande Rose
La Reine Victoria
Hermann Schmidt
Roville

from Loubert:
2 Purple Skyliners
2 Camellia Rose
2 Bougainville
2 Excellenz Von Schubert
Violette
Deschamps
Vicomtesse Pierre du Fou
Declic
Lavender Dream
Asta Von Parpat
Belle Vichyssoise

from Bierkreek:
Mosel
Hermann Schmidt
Leopold Ritter
Pink Perpetue
Morning Jewel
Brise Parfum
Mme Martignier
Katy Road Pink
Ebb Tide
Heirloom
Escapade
Granmother's Hat
Carlin's Rhythm

and from La Roseraie du D�sert:
Clbg Old Blush
Setina
Lily Merchertsky
Jacques Amiot
Clbg Cecile Brunner
Ornement des Bosquets
Nancy Hayward
M. Georges du Cadoudal

So, if you add on all the moves and the 19 non-rose plants (trees, wisteria and clematis),the total comes up, once again, to probably around 100 vulnerable new plants for this season...no wonder I'm glad it's raining !
A few of these roses may wind up staying in pots for their first season,and then I have 4 more coming from a German nursery (should have, at least...I already paid for them, but the nursery said it's too cold to ship now,and we must wait for March...hmm...). In any case it's a big investment of time, labour and also money. I hope it will pay off, eventually...regards, bart

Reading your lists, Melissa and Bart, I feel a bit sorry that I won't get many more new roses and won't feel that excitement over a large shipment of roses again. There will only be replacements and some replenishments but no rose garden makeover. I wish I had more space but all available unused space goes to our new soft fruit garden.

Bart, thanks for sharing your list. I'm glad to see your post. You know, if cost is a consideration in your gardening, you really do have a reason to learn how to propagate. For example, from your list I've rooted 'Louise Odier', 'Camellia Rose', 'Lavender Dream', 'Belle Vichyssoise', and 'Ornement des Bosquets'; all are easy to propagate from cuttings. Of course you need parent plants, but, you know me, don't you?
Thus far my advice is of a disinterested sort, but in honesty I must add that a couple of the roses on your list do arouse my longing; so a cutting exchange would benefit me as well.
I couldn't agree more about the rain. My appreciation retreated recently into the background as we slopped through lakes of glop planting our order. Also when a couple of inches of snow falls, as happened this week, the local bus service, provided by a new company, likes to forget that it's in the business of picking its customers up and taking them places along a set itinerary. As they are the local middle- and high school transportation their attitude is both scary and maddening. Those of you who can rejoice in a reliable school transportation service, count your blessings!!!!!!!
Melissa