Unless the roses are on R. multiflora rootstock, the pH should not be any problem for them.

From the school of been there, done that, DON'T plant ANYTHING that really requires acidic soil. You will be fighting the pH from here to eternity.

Yep, Believe the mad one!

You have a high-ish pH and a ton of Calcium (not the builders' fault) and only heroic efforts will fix that. Whatever you do to lower the pH, that Ca will be waiting to move in and readjust things as spoon as you walk in the house.

Sulfur is not quick. It sits there until soil bacteria can (slowly) work on it. Using acid-loving plants will only make you unhappy with the extra ineffective work and poor growth.

Here's a quick test. Pour some vinegar onto the soil. If there's ANY foaming, you have free available Ca, and you don't stand a chance.

Grubby, I was told by the guy at my local extension office that the concrete foundation, concrete left behind in the soil from the builders as well as the concrete sidewalk bordering the landscaping bed contributes to the high calcium levels. Anyway, I did the vinegar test and lucky for me, I have a chance after all! No foaming occurred. That puts me where???? The camellia is our state flower, for crying out loud. There are two huge ones in my neighbor's yard. Surely my yard isn't the only one around that can't grow camellias......

See if you can find Soil & Water dudes to talk to instead of Cooperative Extension.

How old is the construction? If it is more than 5 years old, then alkaline leaching has already occurred, and you've got what you've got.

My personal experience, living in a lime pocket among an assortment of lime pockets, is that most gardeners have been quite thoroughly brainwashed into thinking anything in the east has to be acidic. It just isn't so. So when confronted with an alternate reality, they come up with excuses. Concrete leaching is a classic. Older concrete doesn't leach, and the leaching doesn't travel much. I don't know how many times I've been told that I should stop liming, and then I will have 'normal' acidic soil.

If you want to know how the neighbor grows camellias, go over and ask.

And no, my soil doesn't fizz either, and my pH, and calcium numbers are very similar to yours.

Ok, well, that really leaves me with nothing! Anyone have any alternatives other than I'm doomed? And forget about asking the neighbor. Those camellias were planted at least 10 years ago and this guy has lived there maybe 2 years. Nature is what's growing those babies!

Leaching is done since this house was built nearly 13 years ago.

It was also recommended to me to add aluminum sulfate to the soil at the time of planting. I know, I know, don't overdo it with that stuff or I may kill the plants.

So I'm not gonna deal with elemental sulfur. I may go the aluminum sulfate route, or scrap the plans for the shi shis altogether. Any suggestions for a nice low growing evergreen in zone 8b that complements dwarf pringles podocarpus? The location will be in front of windows, height from ground varies from 1.5 feet to 2.5 feet (ground slopes).

I'm not an expert on PH but coffee can add acidity quickly. Also mold though.

"Here's a quick test. Pour some vinegar onto the soil. If there's ANY foaming, you have free available Ca, and you don't stand a chance."

Foaming would actually indicate that there is carbonate. Granted it is typically Ca and/or Mg carbonates. Ca alone is not alkaline, it's what comes with it. Limestone based soil has a relatively high pH. Also, the soil test usually measures 'free available calcium' (and other minerals) so having a high Ca value in a soil test already tells you that soluble Ca is high.

Having said all that, I agree with the bottom line, which is that if your pH is naturally high, you'll be fighting it forever. Compost will help moderate and lower it a bit. Mine was over 7 and is now 6.2-6.5 after years of adding compost. But it won't get it down below that if your soil is naturally alkaline.

It hasn't been long since you tested the soil. Call the lab and give them the Reference number to the test they did. Then ask them for their reccommendations for what you want to do. They will gladly give you the right direction to take.

You did the one big mistake that anyone that sends in a soil sample to be analysied does. They want everything, but forget to tell the lab, what their ideal pH is they need. It's also true for any nutrient levels, they just don't ask.

Hey, thunderbear48, no fair in assuming I made a mistake when I sent the soil sample! ;) I provided the lab with every plant I was planning on installing. Recommendations were given; however, they were based on the plant already existing in the ground. The comments made were on when to fertilize and what type to use in order to reduce the pH.

My husband and I have all plants installed at this point. Our extension service friend provided sulfur that we used to amend the soil as we planted. We also mulched with a nice covering of pine straw. I will be monitoring the plants as they grow and fertilize according to the recommendations of the soil test lab if the plants are showing signs of iron deficiency. Thanks for everyone's input here!

Funny how people use the term 'install' when referring to landscaping - not picking on you Heather, I've heard it on home shows on TV. As though a living system was a collection of cabinets and appliances. :-]

Good luck and come back and see us.

The best thing we can do as gardeners is to select the plants that grow in the conditions that we have rather than trying to force the soil/climate into something that it isnt. Adding inputs over and over again to try to grow a particular plant isn't very sustainable. That being said, your pH isn't that high... and many plants can tolerate a greater range than they are given credit. Sometimes I do a trial of a few plants, see how they do in a particular area. If they do well, then I add more.

Another gardener tip, don't be in a hurry. i see too many landscapes selected for speed rather than duration. Slow and steady pays off.

Your pH is probably not high enough for the soil to contain carbonates, so it won't fizz when you put acid on it. This also means that it would not be difficult to lower the pH, but you do have to be careful not to lower it too much. Aluminum sulfate reacts chemically and will lower pH rapidly. Elemental sulfur will take a bit longer, depending on soil temperature and the size of the sulfur granules. I suggest that you put a known amount of soil into pots and add varying amounts of aluminum sulfate, then check the pH after a week or so. Very good pen-type pH meters are available for under $50.

The main effect of the high pH (high for acid-loving plants, that is) is that iron deficiency is likely. Lowering the pH will help avoid this, but you can also fertilize with a chelated iron fertilizer, such as Fe-EDDHA. You will probably need to do this annually.