Sounds like the front garden I just put in last week. (that's not helpful, I know.)

You're only a couple of hours down the road from me. If you'd like help with your project, I'll be happy to hop in the car and lend a hand.

Connie

Connie, that's a great offer! My email at the arboretum is chesapeake.arboretum6@verizon.net, feel free to email me directly and tell me about what you chose for your front garden. I am SO anxious to learn from other southern gardeners. I grew OGR's in Ohio and believe me, the choices are COMPLETELY different there (esp. in areas without reliable snow cover).

Check out the list in the thread I posted about my new front garden -- link below. They're mostly still babies, but I expect them to fill in and do really well.

When Robert sees this, I'm sure he'll chime in on it too. He has some really nice teas, and his climate is a little more like yours than mine is.

The offer of help is quite sincere. Whether you need advice, someone to bounce ideas off of, reassurance, or two more hands to man a shovel. Let me know. My email is c.hilker @ adelphia . net.

Connie

Here is a link that might be useful: My New Front Garden

I have been to the municipal rose garden at Wilson, NC and it has very, very few OGR's and most of those have been consigned to the "cheap seats"-- the teas are under trees. It's a wonderful garden but they've laid it out with emphasis on ARS roses, with a pretty respectable number of DA's and some nice climbers. The arboretum could BECOME the place to visit to see teas, chinas and noisettes. Keep those replies coming. Meanwhile I am contacting Norfolk Botanical, Lewis Ginter, and Wilson NC to ask if they plan to expand their collections!! No harm in asking right???

Don't know anything first-hand about rose gardens in your area, but have dreamed of a road trip. In my reveries, I've planned to see the Leonie Bell Noisette garden that Rev. Seidel designed for Monticello, and the Lynchburg, Va cemetery. I would love to visit Roses, Unlimited, as well as Ashdown. Shreveport is a long way from you, but I know that the ARS has been adding old roses to their gardens.

Connie's offer to help makes me want to grab a shovel - too bad I'm thousands of miles away! Hope that your arboretum becomes one of the places that I dream about visiting!

I'm an Ohio girl, by the way, and have visited gardens in several parts of the state - have goggled at the beautiful Damasks, Gallicas and Albas and clucked over the piteous state of any chinas and teas that have survived. You are going to have so much fine growing these tender beauties, but I bet you'll miss those hardy OGRs!
Anita

Definitely visit Ashdown & Roses Unlimited...just let them know when you are coming. I have a yard full of roses from both those places.

Have you ever heard of the Heritage Rose Trail in Charleston? I've not been but keep meaning to go....maybe this spring. Anyway I've posted a link to more info about it. Charleston is full of old roses and the noisette originated there.

Carole

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.charlestonhorticulturalsociety.org/index.html?page=heritagerose

There is a great resource very close to you at Hollywood Cemetery in Richmond. There's an active group there working to keep their rare roses going and to get them identified. The folks at Tufton could give you names.
Also check the books of Elizabth Lawrence in Charlotte. The link below is a start.
Learn about Rose Rosette Disease. It's something that's already made it to Chesapeake (three years ago.)
There are folks in Maryland, Virginia and the Carolinas who are active in old roses; you can meet many of them in late May at Tufton's open house. The Southern Garden History group is another potential resource.
Read the article about R. moschata in the Noisette volumn published by the Heritage Rose Foundation after the Noisette symposium in Charleston.
Try not to reinvent the wheel. There's lots of info out there but it takes some digging to get to it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Elizabeth Lawrence website.

I've been to the botanical garden at Riverbank Zoo in Columbia, SC, and it is nice with a rich variety. However, I think some of there other areas were better displayed. If you really want to see a nice antique rose set up, I suggest the antique rose emporium in Texas. Now, that set up is just gorgeous and they have it all. But, after all, they are a distributor as well. I was just surprised that I didn't see a Madame Alfred Carrier noisette. To me, it is one of the most special noisettes of them all. It is massive though, so I guess you have to have a lot of room.

Lois

ann...this may be hijacking slightly, but...is there a contact person/group so I can get involved with the Hollywood Cemetery?
Robert

Robert, I know who to talk to -- it'll take me a couple of phone calls to get her info for you.

Connie

P.S. We now return to our regularly scheduled message thread. :)

And I've remembered another Virginia cemetery with noisettes! In Staunton Virginia, the old, city cemetery has a collection of roses that includes some noisettes (and they are much, much colder than Richmond-Chesapeake metro).
Contact the folks at the Staunton Rose Society which includes some of the folks who care for the roses there (Charles S is one of the folks active at SRS as well as with the cemetery.)
Some of the old chinas at Staunton got RRD and are definitely endangered. Dennis Wetzel who also works at Tufton has tried to propagate the chinas from Staunton ThornRose Cemetery (yes, real name) and keeping them alive in other safer gardens would be wonderful.

There is a public garden in Charleston, Hampton Park, that features chinas & noisettes. Middleton Place also has a rose garden with chinas & noisettes. I'm sure there are more in the Charlston area. We just got back last month - had a great time once again visiting the gardens of the area.

Yes, barbarag, I second what you said about the garden at Wilson- not much in the way of OGR's. I was very disappointed because I hoped to see some of them before I ordered. They do have some beautiful roses, but they are mostly HT's. Good luck w/ your project! Brandy

Ann, I don't believe that any of the roses in Hollywood Cemetary are marked in any way. It is rumored that someone has created a "map" recording the roses which have been identified, but it is not in circulation. It would be wonderful if there were a published guide to those roses! I attended the Tufton open house with hopes that seeing their noisettes and polyanthas would help us narrow the list for the arboretum, but even at that early time in the season the condition was such that it was not possible to really get a feel for the different varieties. Too bad.

Sounds like between the cemetaries up north (Lynchburg also has a huge collection) and the growers down South I will be able to see a lot of the warm-climate OGR's. It's a long drive down to SC from here but it sounds like I could build a cool road trip around all the different places to visit. Our little corner of Virginia is a completely different climate than the rest of the state-- so no wonder it requires a road trip!! I'm excited to have the information about Charleston and Connie, I'd really like to know how to contact the OGR enthusiasts from the Richmond area. I have a rosebuddy in that area & we are always comparing lists!!

Kent Krugh has a wonderful website with many, many photographs. Kent gardens outside of Cinncinnatti.
The entry page is linked below and the "Other Gardens" features a lot of the rose gardens I've mentioned.

Here is a link that might be useful: Woodland Rose Garden

barbarag, I was recently at the Hollywood Cemetery and I purchased a map of the roses from the information office. Also, there are at least a dozen roses that have professional labels.

Robert

There's a map??!! I'm gonna have to get me one of those. I guess it means I plan a trip to Richmond during the week instead of my usual Sunday afternoon. I saw the labels on a few of the roses, but most were mysteries.

I've been meaning to take a day and go to Lynchburg. I did an article for our rose society newsletter a couple of years ago that included part of their brochure with their rose list. It's pretty extensive. I'm attaching a portion of it here:

*********************************************

Roses in Lynchburg's Old City Cemetery

The peak of bloom is in May, but visitors to the Confederate Section of the cemetery will find continuous, scattered bloom throughout the summer until late fall frosts. Even in winter months, the great diversity of form and structural beauty of the many species is of horticultural interest. Drip irrigation and weekly maintenance are provided as needed in season.

The Antique Rose collection was planted in 1986 along the 500 foot remains of the 1820's old brick wall. The 60 varieties chosen are representative of rose history from before 1581 through the 19th century, and include the full range of classes and colors exhibited by the ancestors of modern day roses. The plants were gathered from all over the United States and Canada, as well as local gardens.

The following list includes all the roses growing inside the Confederate Section as well as some growing throughout the rest of the Old City Cemetery. Roses have been or will be planted next to any gravestone that has a picture of a rose, and along some sections of the cemetery roadway.

Rosa Mundi (R. gallica versicolor)
Austrian Copper (R. foetida bicolor)
R. moschata plena
Common Moss (Old Pink Moss)
Celsiana
Suaveolens
Old Blush (Parson's Pink China)
Great Maiden's Blush (R. alba incarnata)
R. multiflora carnea
Champney's Pink Cluster
Chestnut Rose (R. roxburghii plena)
Seven Sisters (R. multiflora platyphylla)
Felicite et Perpetue
Jaune Desprez (Desprez a Fleur Jaune)
Mme Plantier
Sombreuil
Stanwell Perpetual
Safrano
Cardinal de Richelieu
Hermosa
Celine Forester
Baronne Prevost
Comtesse de Murinais
Souvenir de la Malmaison
Baltimore Belle
Paul Ricault
Fantin Latour
General Jacqueminot
Gloire de Dijon
Duchess de Brabrant
Reine des Violettes (Queen of Violets)
General Washington
Gloire de Ducher
Boule de Neige
La France
Zephirine Drouhin
Baroness Rothschild
Paul Neyron
Catherine Mermet
La Reine Victoria
Deuil de Paul Fontaine
Mme Alfred Carrier
Mme Isaac Perriere
Perle d'Or
Mme Ernst Calvat
Striped Moss (Oeillet Panachee)
Roger Lamblin
Marchioness of Londonderry
Aglaia
Gruss an Teplit
Mrs. F.W. Sanford
Santa Rosa
Mme Louis Leveque
Mrs. Anthony Waterer
Conrad Ferdinand Meyer
R. hugonis
Gardenia
Charles de Mills
Belle Amour
Soleil d'Or
Kigin von Dänemark
Blanc Double De Coubert

Connie, what a wonderful list! Of course, much of what they grow in Lynchburg would not thrive down here-- many OGR's require a winter chill. Thanks, Ann for mentioning the Cincinnati garden-- I grew OGR's in Ohio for many years and visited Wooster and Columbus many times, but never Cincinnati. RJL what GREAT news about the rose map for Hollywood Cemetary-- I'll contact my fellow addict who lives up there, he'll be thrilled to know about it.

Winter chilling shouldn't be a problem for roses anywhere in Virginia; high summer heat and humidity are altogether another matter, and are probably at the heart of any climate-caused failure to thrive in this part of the country.

I wonder, do they spray any of the roses in Lynchburg? I'm shocked to see 'Soleil d'Or' and Rosa foetida on that list - surely they can't hope to persist without chemical life support.

"much of what they grow in Lynchburg would not thrive down here"
For years, I was told by rose show judges that Tea Roses couldn't grow in Tennessee. I have no idea where they got that idea, but I finally decided to see for myself. And I found I can grow teas, chinas and noisettes without any winter protection. I am slightly south of Chesapeake longitudinally, and I'm up at 1100' elevation and I get some really cold winter fronts that come screaming down from the Canadian Arctic. And summers are hot and humid here, FWIW.
I am a zone 6b. My roses have gotten -2F in the past five years. But the warm weather roses are stronger than anyone seems to know.
Likewise, Gallicas, Damasks, Centifolias grow here as well. (I do know a gallica-holic in Atlanta.) They will bloom but if their bloom corresponds with a heat wave, their bloom period isn't weeks, but days. But we can grow and appreciate them. And some of mine are going on ten years old.
What I should just come out and say is that you might want to consider ignoring the rose wisdom that comes from the people who grow modern roses and a few OGRs to win trophies with.
Roses have a lot more elasticity in their growing requirements and some of them will grow here because they weren't listening to the rose sages.

Connie,

Take me with you to Lynchburg....It's my understanding that the Old City Cemetery has arranged its roses chronologically? I could be totally off on this bit of information. I think I got it from Randy who has supplied the rose group with significant varieties of roses.

I'd love to spend some time in Hollywood with you as well.

Robert

Robert, Connie,

I would be interested in a road trip to Lynchburg. And Hollywood too for that matter.

Kathy

If you go to Lynchburg, let me know and maybe we can make a day of it.
Also there's (or at least there was) a garden in the old downtown that had a collection of OGRs.

I'm seriously considering doing the road trip to Lynchburg one day this weekend. I could use a day to blow off and spend with friends. The grandson will be visiting his other grandparents, and I don't think I have anything scheduled (for once). Saturday? or Sunday? Weather.com says it should be mid-50's and cloudy, with little chance of rain.

Connie

Connie,

I leave for a week in Florida at O'darkthirty Saturday morning, otherwise I would jump at the opportunity to go on a road trip with you looking for roses. It was great fun when we went to see Robert and Steph - I think that was the last day of good rain we have had.

Kathy

Ann, Stefan: we are renovating an antique rose garden to improve its value for our visitors. Without a winter dormant period the OGR's of northern Europe do not perform sufficiently to be worth garden space (our garden is very small!) The arboretum garden lacks those roses most appropriate to the South-- Chinas, Teas, and Noisettes. We are retaining sections with some of the older OGR's but making space so we can grow those which are glorious here! Our climate is unlike the rest of Virginia--we're down NC way-- coastal, hot, and humid.

Sounds like some nice spring weekend we should all descend on Richmond and work our way north (or the reverse) and see some of these gardens. I saw a presentation on the Lynchburg cemetary (at Tufton, this spring)-- oh, for the luxury of that much space! But what I really, really am looking forward to is Ashdown, RU, and Riverbank--and that's a whole 'nother trip!

The Lewis Ginter Botanical Garden is doing a multimillion-dollar expansion of its rosarium this year. I don't know what's going in, but the existing collection favors Austins, polyanthas, hybrid musks and some OGRs over the hybrid teas- and anyway I'm thinkng of donating the four 'foundation roses' (gallica officinalis, alba semi-plena, damascena and moschata) and the four Chinese 'Godolphins' (Old Blush, Slater's Crimson, Parks' Yellow and Hume's Blush).

Ben Lomond house in Manassas, VA has a large public rose garden. A list of roses can be found at www.geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/3961/roselist.html

I haven't been yet to visit, many of the roses are once bloomers and I was kinda busy last spring house hunting and moving. I promise to visit this spring and report back, LOL.

The municipal botanical garden in Atlanta has a small but quite nice collection of OGRs. I really enjoyed visiting it a couple of years ago.

And you might want to visit the Léonie Bell noisette rose garden. I've never sen it but I loved her books.

Rosefolly

Here is a link that might be useful: Léonie Bell Noisette rose garden

I have visited Chatwood Garden in Hillsborough NC and the rose garden is spectacular. Many OGRs I had never seen before.
http://www.historichillsborough.org/database/pagemaker.cgi?1049395437

I've been to Ben Lomand's house and historic garden, but there are no teas or noisettes there and very few chinas -- it is almost entirely old european rose classes -- damasks, bourbons, moss, albas, galicas, etc. Plus they suffered badly from RRD disease and many roses were missing the last time I was there -- skipped last year so I don't know if they've been replanted or not.

Tufton Farms -- I have not been there in two - three years or so. The Leonie Bell Noisette garden when I saw it was very disappointing -- the roses were quite small and suffered badly from a cold winter. They might be doing better now since we've had a milder winter and they've aged more. When I saw it I thought that the roses were not hardy enough for the location.

Tufton is on a mountainside above Charlottesville, which is itself Zone 6- I'd think it's too chilly for noisettes.

Since Dennis Wetzel was added to the staff at the Center for Historic Plants at Tufton, the Noisettes have been looking much better. They are both bigger and healthier, in spite of the Easter Freeze of 2007 and problems with Rose Rosette Disease.

I grow noisettes at an elevation of 1100' and have kept them going happily without any winter protection at temps down to -5F (so far). But I don't overfertilize them because I know they are not HTs and they don't want to be forced to put on lots of new growth in fall.

Lori, thanks for the news of Ben Lommond. It was because of an initial question on Gardenweb, that we helped them figure out their problem was RRD and that got Virginia Tech to become well informed on the disease. I'm sorry to hear that it's still a problem there. They were loosing a really wonderful plant of Souv. de la Malmaison to RRD the last time DH and I were there, and it was on other roses as well.

Visited Tufton farm last spring to see the Leonie Bell collections of noisettes-- and certainly will go back whenever they have a good program going on. They have many thriving roses in other classes but the noisettes were doing very poorly, polyanthas too. So Riverbanks is next on my list-- down in Columbia SC, then on to Charleston!