If you consider that rose trials give a bush type two years and climbers, three years, before they pass final judgement, that should give you an idea. If the variety is just ticking you off from day one, of course you can oust it any time you want, but if you honestly want to give it a fair chance, two years for a bush and three for climbers might be a decent rule of thumb.

I've dumped quite a few sooner than that because they just didn't "speak to me" and there have been a few which made that decision for me, doing the only honorable thing and just dying right off. Bottom line is, the decision is yours to make. Kim

Another thing you can try is moving it or potting it up and either giving it some coddling in the pot to see if it'll buck up, or give it to someone else.But if your taste has changed and now the idea of even a robustly-growing Heirloom doesn't enthuse you,giving it away or shovel-pruning might be best.bart

Yep it's all up to you! I've shovel pruned in the first year or later years...I try to give them away rather than throw them out...But again... Your call....

{{gwi:331751}}

If your tastes have changed, chuck it or ask about for someone who might want it. I spent lots of time this summer getting rid of the modern HTs I chose before my tastes changed and my rose knowledge grew.
If it's just not behaving well, I agree that you ought to pot it up somewhere and let her go for some years. That way you won't see the "black hole" and can get something in there you prefer.
I have 3 Heirlooms. They are all under 3 years old, but they are NOT earning their keep here. They are in pots and get moved around to various locations to see if this will "improve" performance. (doesn't improve so far).
I love the color, form and fragrance but life is way too short and I'm way too old to put up with freeloading anything...much less roses...
Susan

Coincidentally, I put in an own-root Heirloom this spring. I can't speak about the blooms since I've pinched off the few I've had, but mine hasn't mildewed or looked unhealthy in any way. It's in a full-sun location and I've had to water it a lot during the hot summer months. I can only advise what others have, to either let it go or pot it up and see if that helps. For me life is too short to put up with too much nonsense from easily available plants, although I've babied along my early hybrid teas, which however have been disease-free and are just slow growers. If it ruins the garden picture in its area I wouldn't leave it there. I have China Doll, a rose I always wanted, and tried hard to make it grow, finally transplanting it to a better spot, where it grew very nicely, except that it's now covered with blackspot. It's leaving shortly, especially since I have new arrivals from Rogue Valley that need homes.

Ingrid

Thanks for your input! I think the best course of action is to pot it and find what conditions promote the healthiest plant here. I dug up a very lousy looking Cinco de Mayo in my Mother's garden this year and it has completely turned around in a container. Perhaps Heirloom will similarly benefit.

Ingrid- I have noticed that Heirloom seems to be thirstier than most of the roses I've started this year. Maybe I can get it adequate resources a bit more successfully in a container.

At the worst, I'll have a potted rose to give away to a better home if it doesn't perk up.

Jay

My Cinco de Mayo was dreadful at first. It's improved, but still has a way to go.

I've had some awful plants that turned into winners. Fresh, healthy stock gives the best chance of success. Something that has been baking on asphalt or concrete for months is less likely to be successful, but then again, one of my best was one of those.

Back in Connecticut what I kept is what survived and thrived and after a while everything I had was hardy and vigorous. Here in California everything thrives and nothing dies on its own so I have some decisions. Some like Dolly Parton get mildew so they're all going and probably a few sparse bloomers as well. I'll probably replace ten out of about one hundred this winter.

Here at the coast, the one thing I could say for Heirloom is that it didn't mildew. Ever. It was very Iceberg-like, in that respect.

Oh, well, it bloomed reasonably well, too. But like Jay, I found it to be one of those roses whose blooms lasted a nanosecond.

Funny Story (sort of). At a local rose society meeting, the person judging the "Little Rose Show" called me over, asking "Are you familiar with 'Heirloom'?"

I looked at the bloom, sitting in its vase -- at just the height of what you wanted it to look at, and said: "WOW!"

The judge said: "Is it THAT good?"
I said: "Well, it's good, but I am mainly awestruck that someone got it here, in one piece."

At that precise moment, all of the petals fell to the table.

So, look -- I suspect it will outgrow the mildew. But the blooms won't ever be long-lasting. If you're really disappointed in it, for Heaven's sake, just dig it up!

Jeri

Also depends for what purpose you bought the rose. For instance, if I want a rose for cut flowers and its blooms fade and/or blow quickly, (cool weather or hot), there's not much point in keeping it beyond a year or two. I've found that usually the ability to hold color and form doesn't improve much with the age of the plant. If all you want are roses for display then I think the 3 year rule, while a rose adjusts, is fine....I think potting up a rose to trial it first is a very good idea. Almost all of my "new to me" roses start out their first couple years in a container. Much easier to give away that way (or to just pitch) ....Maryl

I've chucked roses that have not perked up within 6 months. With my limited space I don't have the ability to plant roses that don't actively want to be here, though. Based on what I've read here, the shattering won't abate when it matures. Find something that captivates you from Day 1.

Josh

I've grown Heirloom and it has never spoken to me anywhere I have ever seen it. Neither have any of the other Heirloom based J&P mauves. There is a look to the foliage, plant and flower inherited from Heirloom as well as a soft pith and general lack of vigor. Yes, I know, they ARE vigorous other places, but none of them have ever been really good plants for me. It can be pretty, when and where it's pretty, but never where I've grown it. Kim

For me, during the first year the bloom has to convince me it is worthy of a place in my garden. If I don't like the bloom for whatever reason, why keep it. Then I will give the bush 2 more years to fill out and make a decent shrub worthy of it's spot in the garden. The hard part for me is when I find a bloom that I like and it is on a sorry bush. I will make it go away after three years. Sometimes I'll try again (just in case I got a bad plant). Dublin and Sunstruck are two that I wanted to work but just didn't give me the bush that I needed. Even after two tries.

Jeri, I wish I'd been at that rose show when it happened. Too funny. I won't be pinching off the new blooms on my Heirloom now. If it shatters that quickly it's gone, especially because in my garden and where it's planted in all-day sun it will probably shatter twice as fast. I wish I'd known about this habit but somehow I've never seen that discussed here before. I'm surprised that on-line nurseries like Rogue Valley and others would even offer it.

Ingrid

Any time you discover it irritates you more than it gives you pleasure!

Kate

I try to sp the underachievers, but feel guilty. I even feel guilty if I run out of food before I get to all of them on the same day. I have few real clunkers in some prime spots!

One of the benefits of having a big garden, is it is easy to walk past some of the roses/plants that really need to meet the shovel.

But I know I have a few on my list that are going to meet it as soon as rain is in the forecast and they look dormant. Although, mostly to re-arrange to a new spot I hope they like better. (although if 2 of them happen to die in their new spots-oh well)

Susan, you and I are so alike in our guilt complexes, right down to the guilt I feel when one bunch of roses gets fed, and another group has to wait a day or two. If the back yard flower beds get a nice extra hose shower on a hot day, but the front yard beds don't, down comes the guilt. Digging up a rose is like the murder of a family member, even if I can't stand the rose. I'll do anything to delay the dirty deed. Several months ago in a thread about which roses we'd sp this year, i boldly declared Party Dress would have to go...it hasn't gone anywhere, but stands fearlessly in its usual spot. It's really bad when plants can psyche you out. Diane

A mix of guilt and investment. I never dig up anything until it's dead. But I have room to let the dying linger. ANd there have been surprises. I've had several mosses, in particular, who did nothing, but nothing for four years and then suddenly they all began to grow and bloom.

It depends on the rose and the problem. I've found that I can accommodate a rose that isn't the color I'd hoped, or isn't the size I'd hoped (although I do try to move them) and I'll try for years. I can't bring myself to remove a healthy rose. But a rose that clearly isn't going to be healthy for me? Early removal is better than later. Blackspot is here to stay, sadly, so severely affected roses need to go bye-bye. Roses that aren't tolerant to heat and humidity also can't stay. Neither are roses that, for no good reason, begin to commit suicide as soon as they cross the property line.

I watch slow growers. I try moving them. I give them more than a year, a lot more if they're generally healthy. But if they can't do what they're supposed to do here, we need to part company.

I have several that I received this year, still in pots, that will need to find a new home. One, a Biltmore rose that I thought would surely be at home here, has gone through several cycles of leaf loss due to blackspot. Another came to me with chlorosis and it hasn't improved much. I will give it a little more time and see if it can get better. A third seems to be entirely unhappy here, although I've tried moving it and even repotting it. It will improve for a time, but then lose its leaves and look pathetic again. Surprising to me, since it was hybridized in Tennessee.

I have only so much time, space and energy to put toward roses so they need to be able to thrive here. If they can't do that, I figure that I shouldn't have them and they shouldn't be here. I haven't always felt this way, but over time, I've realized that saying yes to a sickly rose or one that will never thrive means saying no to a rose that would be happy and do well here.

I always give a rose at least 3 years to prove it's worth. Sometimes they give up the ghost on their own earlier and save me the trouble of shovel pruning them. If I have one that I really love and it's still a runt I may give it longer and move or pot it to see if that helps. Climbers I go longer too. I gave Cl. Peace 6 years before it got the boot. They take longer to mature enough to climb so I wait longer. Peace did climb well enough. It just never bloomed!

Diane, I totally understand! Lol. Knew we were kindred spirits ! Is it motherhood?

I don't HATE Heirloom. I just hate that I don't get to enjoy the blooms because of their propensity to explode before I can see them. It seems like this quality isn't something the rose grows out of, so I feel justified in potting this up and perhaps passing on an early holiday gift to someone.

I know the plant looks crappy, mildewed, and gangly, but if Mister Linclon doesn't produce some of the most sumptuous smelling and rich, velvety red blooms in the garden then I'm the president. It's tucked away where it can do it's thing and not feel out of place however.

Some problem roses we find reasons to excuse, but others need to go. Heirloom is just in the latter group for me I suppose. And that is a great story Jeri, I can really picture that!

Jay

Heh,heh, Susan, for me it must be grandmotherhood. Diane