mesigh, my light colored roses in the Dallas area receive all day sun, my back yard is south facing, very little shade. I do plant my red roses for the most part on the east side of the house, they receive afternoon shade.

We had to cut down two 30' cedar elm trees due to limbs falling in the wind storms a couple of years ago; I was sick about it, but can't believe how my garden perked up with much more blooming.

I have two beds that get full blazing sun literally from sun up til sundown in the summer, and it's entirely too much sun. My roses that get shade after 3:00 p.m. do much better.

Meslgh,

Both beds with extended sun will be perfectly fine. The bed that only gets 5 hours of sun would be less ideal than the others.

It isn't necessarily the amount of sun which stresses roses but the heat. Here in Dallas we get plenty of both.

Josh

meslgh, it kind of depends on several things - factors like plenty of water, moisture retentive soil, and type of rose. I'm on the south edge of DFW, and I have roses that thrive in both full sun and partial shade. Mrs B R Cant, SDLM, Ducher, Lamarque, Don Juan, and Archduke Charles thrive in full sun. Spice is beautiful in part sun/dappled shade. So are the Barcelona/Frances Dubreuils, the Tiffanys, the Munstead Woods, and a few others. That's not to say that these wouldn't also do well in full sun. I think you'll find out by trial and error which ones prefer which, but I hope we can help you to lessen the error. Those in full sun all day, I'd be sure they have moisture retentive soil, check their water needs frequently, and make sure you have a good layer of mulch over their root area. Usually in Texas, that makes all the difference - especially in the first two years. Lou

Thanks, everybody. I think I'll go with the area with the most sun first, with plenty of mulch. Down the road, I may try pushing my luck with the areas that get less sun.

Hey, Josh and Lou, do you mind taking a look at my thread about how large roses get around here? I'm trying to be realistic about how many roses I can plant in my limited amount of full sun.

Here is a link that might be useful: How large do these roses grow in Texas?

All of the Chinas, Teas, and Noisettes you list in that thread will grow to formidable sizes. 6-8 feet tall and easily 3-5 feet across.

The only ones that would not swallow a person whole would be Tamora, SDLM, and Gruss an Achen.

I would put your Duchesse de Brabant in the bed that gets 5 hours of sun. It is remarkably shade tolerant and the lessened amount of sun will keep it smaller than its usual monstrous size. Do know, though, that less sunbeams less blooms even for the Duchesse.

Josh

meslgh.........

You have gotten advice from people local to you, so my two cents is of less value than what they have told you, but it may add a dimension you can use in your decision making.

I live in a latitude further north than you and I live at a higher elevation, so even though we both live in zone 8a, the light is different up here than where you live. That's why the local advice is much better.

Also, since I live in the mountains, my night temps cool off by 40 to 50 degrees and that gives the plants a chance to rehydrate themselves during the night ... pull moisture up from the root zone to the top growth. I don't know if that is true where you live.

What I have learned about growing roses in an area of high heat (Heat zone 8), is that roses with thicker petal substance can handle more light and heat.

Since I don't have any disease pressure once the day temps hit 85 degrees and stay there or higher, I prune for foliage. That means I don't take out anything that might produce foliage. The rose will abandon what it cannot use. I have found that the roses need as much foliage as possible to stimulate the plant to pull moisture up from the root zone.

Once my roses have been in the ground for 3 to 4 years, they are much better at handling the light and the heat.

I have some roses that only look wonderful in spring and fall and pretty lousy during the summer months. That's fine with me because I love the roses and I have enough other roses that do well in the summer months.

My goal is not to strive for perfect blooms, but for a healthy plant. A healthy plant provides enough blooms to keep me happy.

I hope this helps.

Smiles,
Lyn

Good tips from Lyn.

As the others from this area have said, Duchesse, Mrs. Dudley, Maggie, Louis, and Cramsoisi all of these can get really big; Belinda a little smaller. My Ducher and MD/MPs stay about 4x4. The others can be kept at 5x5 if that's what you need. I have a small, urban garden with the average amount of yard on the front, back and sides so I don't let anything get really huge. You said you have a small area that gets full sun. How small is small? Square feet? I'd use the estimates to find out how many you can fit into that area. You would need to decide if you want to let them expand to their fullest or maintain them at a reasonable size - a size that's not too small for their health and happiness. Those things would determine how many you put in your 'small' area. Sorry I can't be more specific.

And one more thing, while you are planing the space, you should decide if you want only roses in that spot. I prefer roses along with other plants so that I get a variety of texture and shape and color of green. But a mass of just roses can be gorgeous too. You decide what look pleases you most. Lou

I have several beds with varying amounts of sunlight. In the hellish summer of 2011, I lost nearly every rose in a bed that gets full sun from mid morning until sundown. The sun blasts from the west and hits the bed where the house wont shade it. I watered well but didn't make any difference. I might not have mulched enough, but since then, I have reworked that bed, added more good soil and the roses are doing well. We at least got some rain this summer and I think that helped.

The roses that have done the best are the ones behind my horse barn. They get early morning sun and full sun up until about 3pm, then the barn shades them from the brutal afternoon sun. All are doing well. I am thinking that it is not so much the full all day sun, but the ferocious heat that zaps them.

I am making more raised beds - for the Vintage roses I couldn't resist - and am going to place them where they will get some protection from the 3-6pm afternoon sun. I agree with Floridarose on this point. Now, maybe I should be mulching the roots more, and that would make a difference........but I think the intense summer heat in mid afternoon really does a number on them.

Would enjoy hearing what others have to say on this subject.
Judith

I live in DF/W.
I'm with Judith on this. My roses that receive full morning and early afternoon sun, but shade from the scorching North Texas sun from 3 PM on are the happiest.

Randy

I have virtually no shade in my garden during the summer months, which does limit my choice of roses I can grow well.

One of the things I forgot to mention in my post above ... even tho' I am not living in Texas ... is that when you are gardening in high temps, it's very important to be aware of reflected heat. I am thinking primarily of heat reflected off the side of your house or from the hardscape around your garden bed. You would simply be amazed by the difference between planting a rose near a sidewalk vs a few feet away from that sidewalk.

Of course, I learned this the hard way.

Smiles,
Lyn

I don't think there is any such thing as too much sun for a rose. However, too much heat is an entirely different thing. Put them in the sun but start thinking about some kind of shading system for those days when it's blisteringly hot.

Seil is correct on this. The sun is not the issue, but the heat is. While many of your choices, meslgh, will thrive here in Texas you should know that until they are about 5 years old they will suffer from the heat. The evaporation of water content from the plant system due to the heat will cause them stress until their root systems are large enough to compensate. The shading on your beds is ideal for local Texas conditions, so plant away. You shouldn't have any problems.

Josh

I know mulching is important. I am wondering if more mulching than what I have been doing would help the roses survive the extreme heat of being out in all day sun. I think Seil is exactly right on that the sun is not the problem, the heat is. When I lost so many roses in the blistering drought summer of 2011 that were in my arbor bed with all the blasting afternoon sun, I realized [too late] that maybe I should have mulched better.

I have a row of old garden roses - Mon. Tillier, Georgetown Tea, Mr. BR Cant, etc. that are just huge. I planted them about 5 years ago - watered and mulched with composted horse manure very carefully the first year - now, don't have to do a thing to them. I throw compost on them thickly a couple of times a year - they are thriving and growing like gangbusters. Am thinking this thick mulch which protects their roots in heat and cold is the main reason why they are so healthy. I used to topdress beds in spring and fall with this composted manure and my beds were great. I let that slide in recent years due to being so busy, but think I need to make time to do this again.

Josh... you are so great to encourage her to go for it.

You are right, it's not the sun, but the heat. Since I don't have any shade, I've really tested that one ! Lol.

It was a great learning curve for me. I have found that siting a rose does make a difference. This year, I moved a couple of roses that were not thriving and they took off to become the rose I had hoped they would be.

Roses are tough. I am growing roses in a heat pit in poor soil in a climate that was new to me. I haven't killed a rose yet.

I agree, meslgh, go for it. Like me, you may end up moving a rose, but giving it the test of time before you relocate a plant really helps. You don't always have to give up on a rose that doesn't meet your hopes for the rose.

Smiles,
Lyn

Hi,

My summers are less hospitable than yours in terms of heat, and during the past years gardening here, I have never lost a rose to heat. What I have lost a rose to is lack of water during the summer. I lost a Golden Celebration due to a faulty emitter on the drip line irrigation; the bush had not been receiving water at all. So I echo the importance of hydration for roses during the heat. Be sure to water as early in the morning as you can. This improves absorption and reduces the potential for fungal diseases.

I put a good layer of mulch down in early May, and have created microclimates. In certain areas with trees that have root systems that tend to go straight down and be less invasive, I strategically plant roses less heat tolerant nearby so they can get filtered sun, or the afternoon shading they require.

Lynn

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Sun, Oct 6, 13 at 11:15