So, keep it. Just remember to spray it a bit more often then you do the others. What you choose to grow or keep is up to you. I don't think anyone is keeping score.

Maybe starting earlier with Bayer would take care of Heirloom's problem. Or, Daconil is chemically stable in water. You could put 1/2 gallon in a backup sprayer and use it every week on this one plant, at least until the nozzle clogs. (Invert the sprayer and blow air out when you finish.) This is in addition to your Bayer routine. If it burns in hot weather, reduce the concentration. Watch for wrinkling of the new foliage. I have used it during Florida summers.

But the sensible thing is to remove a plant that isn't happy with the regime you are willing to provide.

My thought about waiting until May 1 to start spraying was, it is OK provided you pruned severely, but maybe not if you leave a lot of cane, which promotes the reinfection of new leaves. If you aren't spraying, scout twice a week and spray if spots appear.

It may well need treatment more often (maybe every 7 - 10 days instead of two weeks). Maybe it is just a one year thing. But, do start your spray program about a week after pruning, it really does help.

Those who use Bayer Advanced Disease Control for Roses, Flowers and Shrubs can give you more info. I hesitate to think that you may have a strain of blackspot that is resistant to this fungicide, it happens, but I don't think that this is the case. I think it is the abnormal weather conditions, some years you just can't do enough and chalk it up to a shoulder shrug and an "oh well there's next year".

"I hesitate to think that you may have a strain of blackspot that is resistant to this fungicide, it happens, but I don't think that this is the case. "

--Diane, the same thought crossed my mind. It is unlikely that resistance would develop in a small garden. But there was an early trial of tebuconazole at Auburn (Hagan 1991, IIRC) where the fungicide failed in the 2nd or 3rd year. They didn't attribute it to resistance, but given that the fungicide has been spectacularly successful elsewhere, that seems the logical interpretation.

'Heirloom' is one of the worst roses for blackspot and mildew.

Is it likely to be resistant on just one rose? I had no idea Daconil was chemically stable in water so that is a huge help. I will try the early spraying and the Daconil. Hopefully, that will do the trick.

You can have a particular strain of blackspot on only one plant for a while if it is not within spattering distance of another plant. BS is not very mobile and depends on the gardener to move it around the garden.

But, neither Diane nor I is claiming that you have a resistant strain. The only reason it crossed my mind is that most people get near 100% control with Bayer Disease Control. I do, but I don't keep Heirloom.

Remember to also water at the base of the rose too. Try not to get the leaves wet when watering. I know you should probably still spray but it couldn't hurt.

Well it rained continually in spring and summer splashing the leaves all over and no BS. Then all of a sudden, BS all over the place with Heirloom.

Maybe just a bad year for him.

Heirloom is one of the worst roses in my garden for BS. I hear what you're saying about the flowers and the fragrance, though ... that's why it's still here. (La Reine and Louise Odier are also really susceptible.) The advice you have been given is really good.

I didn't know that about Daconil ... I'll have to keep some on hand for my BS prone Pernetianas ... I call their area "Blackspot Gulch")

Connie

If you need extra sprayings for just one rose, you might check at Wal-mart or such place and see if you can find the pre-mixed/ready-to-go spray bottle of Daconil. Kind of expensive since it doesn't go far, but I always keep one bottle around in case one rose acts up when the others are doing fine. With a pre-mixed spray bottle available, you don't have to go to the trouble of mixing spray and then wondering what to do with the left-over spray.

Don't know if there are different brands available. I get the Daconil because that is the only pre-mix spray bottle available in my area.

As for heat, do the spray at 8 or 9 in the morning--no problem then. Or near suppertime. (Don't spray Daconil on Double Delight however--that rose hates it, for some reason.)

Kate

Kate said "(Don't spray Daconil on Double Delight however--that rose hates it, for some reason.)"

I did not know this, but does DD hate other blackspot sprays? Also, what does it do since you say it hates it? I mean, what happens to indicate that? I ask because my only DD is acting funny after I did my spray this month (Bayer Disease control spray). I think its the first or second time I have sprayed it since I got it and there is some weird growth starting at the new bud unions. Looks like herbicide damage, but I havent used any, and does NOT resemble RRD. The only thing different is the spray and I moved the plant. This morning there were three large katydid type bugs AND a praying mantis on that one bush, nowhere else, so bugs is also a possibilty. I don't do pesticides, but do have some incecticidal soap if needed, but with such good bugs around I didnt use ANY of it. I just noticed the growth this week, a week after I sprayed and only on this ONE bush. The rest look fantastic if I do say so! I am so enjoying my roses and wish I had done this years ago.

I have those cheapie spray bottles you get at Walmart for a buck. For roses that need extra help, it is no trouble at all to just fill up the bottle and go spray. Angel Face is one of those roses that needs extra attention and I am happy to provide it for those beautiful mauve blooms. Get the spray bottle and just keep trying different sprays until you find something that works, and do it on a regular schedule. I will go to extra lengths to baby a rose that I love. After all......thats the fun of it, being out in the garden, tending the roses. I have 40 something miniature horses so spraying roses is a piece of cake compared to all THAT work!
Judith

Kate, just as you were posting that, I remembered that I DO have the ready-to-spray Daconil, I use it for my orchids. I don't mind paying more for the convenience, I don't need it in large volume.

Spraying early is a good idea since the leaves are not hot, I imagine that is some of the cause of chemical burn.

Double Delight responds to Daconil with fine purple speckling of the foliage.

According to a tech sheet I just checked, tebuconazole is also stable in water, so you might leave a little Bayer in the sprayer, use it after 7 days, then clean the sprayer.

Redsox, I live in Lexington, KY and have noticed that mid July thru August seems to be high pressure for BS. So, I'm thinking that during that time period I need to add Manzate at least every other week starting early July? Also, I don't have to spray all the bushes, just the problem ones and the lower 1/2 of the bushes that are closeby them?

Michaelg, thanks for the info on stability for tebuconazole and Daconil.

{{gwi:327124}}

Redsox-please don't SP my favorite rose. (!) Heirloom is a workhorse in my garden and not any more trouble than the others. Maybe because shes older?-4yrs.(?) I do maintain regular spray program as suggested above. Perhaps SHE would be more responsive if you referred to her as a girl.
(smirk)

Redsox,

Heirloom stays clean here as long as I maintain my program. I spray with Daconil in the spring and then switch to Bayer every other weekend. But, as always there was a lapse. Four weeks went by this summer and there was BS everywhere. That's the problem when you have a heavy work schedule, you have to get the spray down in a small window on the weekend. A rainy weekend, then a trip and the HT's are a mess. My rose collection gets smaller each year for this reason.

But, I agree that Heirloom is worth a little extra trouble.

{{gwi:203048}}

I keep hearing that daconil burns, I've used it a lot and I've never had a problem with it.

Redsox--we are dying to hear. What did you do? Did you give Heirloom another chance? Did your Heirloom come back? Usually by now you may see that she is throwing out healthy new growth? We are waiting with baited breath...

Well, um, I did nothing. I am still spraying, although I think I am done spraying for the season after this week. Heirloom is too far gone for this season with few lower leaves remaining so I will start over again and spray earlier next year. I'm sure the unusual levels of rain this year did not help.

The local Rose Society President came over last week to pick up a division I had for her (not roses, obviously) and she didn't seem too shocked by Heirloom after all of the rain.

I thought about cutting it down to the ground in late November to grow brand new canes but I don't think I will try that yet.

Don't do that. The plant would use stored energy to grow tender new canes which would be frozen, wasting the energy.

Also, the plants will be better off if you spray into late October, at least the ones with active BS. Mild, drippy weather is ideal for the spread of disease.

Redsox-Force yourself not to act now-unless it is to final spray. Come spring, give Heirloom a fungicide drench first thing when the ground has thawed-(She needs a kick in the pants) and she may just surprise you. Maintain spray schedule like Harry said. Pls don't come unhinged folks because I said drench. If you have a fungus you must knock it down to size in order to control it. Goodluck-Redsox-if you do replace her next year with another rose, be sure not to use this spot.

I should have explained what I meant a little better. I meant cut the canes down to the ground in Spring, not now in mid Fall. But I won't cut them down in Spring, I'll try the drench/earlier spraying and see if that improves things a bit.

I didn't really consider if I have to replace, not to do it in that spot. I guess the soil has a lot of fungus spores over there.

Actually, cutting the canes down to the ground (or a few inches) in spring does reduce the transmission into next season, but it would also reduce the first flush of bloom.

I doubt there is any value in spraying before there are leaves. But starting as soon as there are leaves might be enough to maintain control with twice-monthly spraying. If not, spray Heirloom every week or get rid of it.

Don't worry about the soil. Just put down a solid layer of mulch in spring.