Suzie, if you're not allowed to build, will you be allowed to garden - is planting within its zoning?

You'll have a lot of room, anyway, to roam... and internet access, too?

What a surprise, Suzy, and I wish you and your family the best of luck. For sure it will be an adventure and you strike me as having an adventurous spirit. I imagine the pros and cons will emerge as you settle in and I hope there will be more pros. Plenty of room to plant and no neighbors to bother you! Please do keep us updated, and I'm also wondering about the internet access.

What a surprise, Suzy, and I wish you and your family the best of luck. For sure it will be an adventure and you strike me as having an adventurous spirit. I imagine the pros and cons will emerge as you settle in and I hope there will be more pros. Plenty of room to plant and no neighbors to bother you! Please do keep us updated, and I'm also wondering about the internet access.

Best of luck with your new adventure. I'm sure you'll grow a heavenly garden now that you will have all the space you can imagine. Are you allowed to thin out the poplars? You might want to keep some as rose supports! I hope the housing issue works out well for you, and suspect you'll find a way somehow.

Rosefolly

I wish you all the best, Camp! I do hope that you'll be able to put in a garden of some kind. I can't imagine you without mud on your boots and a trowel in your hands, lol. You'll go positively stir crazy!

6 acres will fit a lot of roses. I wish you great gardening success so you can thumb your nose at the government.

Diane

Sounds like quite an adventure. Do please keep us updated!

I'll think about you, Camp - best wishes. You bless us plenty with your great sense of humor... and I hope that you'll find enjoyment of life and nature regardless of the outcome. I have to remind myself what Victor Frankl, the Holocaust survivor said, "In every situation, we have the power to choose ..., and no one can take away our choice." My take is, we have the power to add to life, or to subtract from life. Thanks, Camp, for being a blessing to this forum always with your wit and great writing style.

Well camps, I imagined you as a tory lol. Obviously got that wrong!! You'll just have to squeeze yourself into a static caravan. It is quicker to get permanent dwelling if you look after the woodland or even better, look after animals. You won't be able to pass it on but at least it is somewhere to live.

Congratulations!! Good luck!!!

I hope you will share all the details of your adventure with us. We'll be missing your posts, suffering withdrawal symptoms.

Colleen

oh cheers everyone - not planning on deserting GW - after all, I will have a place for those gigantic ramblers which gave me sleepless nights at the allotment. Should see the notary after the weekend when all the final details are worked out and we will not be leaving Cambridge till after the winter so it gives us a bit of time to get the horsebox kitted out. In truth, now that just about all my children are sorted (youngest still at home but not for much longer), working and happy, we don't need the extra bedrooms. Most brilliantly, the woodland is only 5 miles from daughter and grandaughter (instead of 70 - yeah, I know, a laughable distance to you Americans, but almost a pilgrimage to us). Even better, oldest son will take over the allotment (although he is more of a veg grower) so we have an easy transition.
The woodland itself was basically a field, planted up in the 70's. Consequently, we will have no compunction about clearing and using the timber (poplar is a bit rubbish but any seasoned wood will burn and it is OK for temporary building plus it has very waterproof bark so a cabin?). We have friends in the tree growing business who can give us really good rates and we plan to have a little plant nursery (the location is absolutely heart-stopping, right on the river Yare in a wilderness corner of north Norfolk, surrounded by water meadows and even the chance of renting a bit of farm field for our veggies. So yep, I am angry, on one level, but also terribly excited - we have been saving for years only to see any money vanish with inflation and we could not even afford to buy a garage in Cambridge. We will have a bit left over to get a second-hand tractor and a new chainsaw and survive for a couple of years then, who knows.
Been using GW since 2003 so although internet access might be tricky, we will only be 5 miles from Norwich so not planning on bowing out just yet - besides, I have to keep my tongue nice and sharp.

You can do all that development on this plot of land, but cant put a house on it? Makes no sense. Anyway, a lot of people live in those mobile homes and some are quite spacious and modern, so maybe it won't be too bad. Some of our neighborhood associations are pretty restrictive, too. I've heard some real horror stories about people who bought houses or lots with plans for building or remodeling, just to find out that city and neighborhood ass'n restrictions made it just about impossible.

Sounds like a real adventure. I know you're up for it, though I know first hand how hard this sort of start up is. All my best!

I can see you clearly a few years from now in a happy paradise of roses, bulbs and perennials where every view out of the window is like a floral wonderland. The poplars became a cozy log cabin with a comfy chair for reading in the summer and a place for kids to play.

Every now and then I dream of a few acres and a painted cottage ( my pals call it the gypsy wagon fantasy ) to start over in. There was a fellow on a show about green small homes who lived on 3 acres of wilderness with a pickup truck and a little green trailer home on wheels. If you don't want a mountain of belongings, it can be wonderful. I always thought he should have had a storage structure for some items but he was trying to live minimally and just enjoy nature. I think he lived where it didn't snow so winter wasn't a factor.

I adore small homes and think they can be miniature masterpieces. My favorite was a one room log home with a sleeping loft at one end opposite the fireplace. I would love a home built into a hill the way Bilbo Baggins' was. It seems cozy to me like a fox den or rabbit home under the green grass.

What an adventure and I'm excited for you. With all your experience, I know you will make something lovely there.

OK, Suzie, I have a real weakness for the water, having lived on Long Island Sound in Connecticut and the St John's River in Florida which was basically in the middle of nowhere but on a point in the river that was a half-mile wide - so thrilling. So I'm ecstatic for you to be out in the open with so much natural landscape around you. I've googled River Yare images and info and would love to come visit and see it on the ground!

However, I need some translation from English to American. (It only sounds like I'm being excessively nosy since I merely want to know EVERYthing about your fantastic opportunity.) Are you literally speaking of a horse trailer or just being your usual funny self? Are mobiles in the UK like our single-wides, double-wides, etc? Is the mobile already there or are you buying one and setting it up there? Is there a well & septic tank on the property? Will you be totally roughing it with no utilities? Since Calderbeck mentioned that you can't pass it on, is it a leasehold for your lifetime?

I have a friend (age 60) whose new husband (age 76) owned an acre of land with well & septic in the boonies. They bought a $12k 2 bedrm, 2 bath singlewide which is small square footage-wise, had it installed, and have added on to it with porches and enclosed rooms they built themselves. Though it is far from posh living standards, they have improved it and are very comfortable and happy and debt-free. They have had animals (horses, chickens, cows, goats) and plan to become fairly self-sufficient with gardens and the animals (meat, milk). A home is what you make it - don't let anyone look down their noses at a mobile - and I'm sure you and Mr. Camp will put your hearts and souls into this new adventure. The chance to have your species roses must have you beside yourself with glee.

As far as not being able to pass it on, our children (at least one of them) have mentioned setting fire to our house (which is only 7 yrs old) when we're gone rather than dealing with our stuff (moving, selling, etc), so I don't think that's a big deal. What is a big deal is to be free of the confinement of city life.

I have been reading Jane Fearnley Whittingstall's book, "The Garden, An English Love Affair, One Thousand Years of Gardening". I won't go into all the phenomenal new stuff I've learned, but one thing ties in to your situation - the yearning of the English to be in the country and out of the stifling (polluted) city. Back in the 1700s & 1800s plants/gardens didn't even grow well in London due to the air pollution. Mariannese mentioned the "high skies" which I'm sure we Americans take for granted and don't realize the significance of in the UK. I am really so thrilled for you. My perspective is that you have been meant to do this for a long time and have procrastinated but your untenable financial situation has forced you to do what you have wanted to do. So I'm happy for you. I have no fear that you will be short on intestinal fortitude and am sure you will make it work. If there was ever a time to get your camera cranked up, now is it, sweetie. I am dying to see where you are going.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

A great gardener with space to garden. It should work.

I wish you joy, success and comfort.

Cath

You can't build on land you own outright? Sometimes we Americans take our freedom way too much for granted.

Ha, lots to answer. Firstly though, yep, Sherry, I do mean a horse trailor....or rather, a horsewagon - a 7.5 tonne Ford Iveco. Land use is really strictly limited and controlled in the UK - we just don't have the acreage and arable land is practically untouchable. So, we couldn't build a full on house on it (and quite right too or everyone would buy woodland and just build a mansion or something). We in the UK have the smallest amount of woodland in Europe (although it is gradually increasing) and the English have an almost visceral attachment to the whole idea of the forest, or just land in general. In truth, we can only fell one tree a month unless we apply for a special licence (we will, and even a few regeneration grants), even though it is only a timber plantation and not some ancient woodland. So, it is about being a custodian, rather than an owner and having so far owned nothing anyway, this won't be a crazy big deal for me.
Oh, the high skies - Norfolk is famous for its wide open spaces - in my imagination, I have always thought of the fens and broads as some kind of prairie land (and I grow a lot of those sort of plants). It really isn't so much picturesque so much as really wild - amazing in our crowded little island. Oh yeah, Mr.Camps is still having the gyspy wagon fantasy (although it veers between that and a silver airstream -but a horsebox really has heaps of space and is mobile and we are fairly nifty with tools and stuff to gussy it up a bit.
To give you an idea of scale, consider this. For the same amount of money a 6 acre woodland will cost, I could buy one seventh of my house. Or, I could rent it for the next 5 years, 3 months......so you know, it wasn't a difficult choice on some levels. I am kind of worried about a washing machine but my daughter's is only 5 miles down the road so it will be like student behaviour in reverse (she is actually studying for her masters in social work in Norwich). Also, we can just be filthy and leather trousers have a lot going for them (I am in mine already).

Camp -- We travel by motorhome, with three large dogs, so there are tricks you'll learn about maneuvering in a small small dwelling.

Does the horse box have a toilet, sink, and shower -- and waste tanks? (I gather that some are fixed up like that, for attendants who travel with horses.) There are ways to use those things for maximum efficiency.

You'll do fine. And I suspect things will evolve over time, as you learn what works best for you.

Jeri in SoCal

Camp, can I come with Sherry to visit you?? I too had checked out River Yare on Google; it looks gorgeous!

Best wishes and best of luck to you, know you will turn this into another adventure.

Suzy, I've been wondering about the rest of your clan, particularly the lovely granddaughter, and hoping that this move doesn't mean that you'll be separated too far from them. I'm glad your daughter will be just five miles away.

You put a lot of work into your home garden recently, and it will be a shame to leave that, but I've learned that I'm much less interested in having a completed garden than creating a garden. You did wonders with a very small space. What a difference to have so much room!

Good luck. We'll all be bereft if you don't have an internet connection there. We will want to hear of your adventures and shout our encouragement!
Anita

Oh, well, in five years you'll be selling starts of your roses to the locals, have re-forested 5 of the acres and built an underground hobbit hole complete with round door, running water and enormous pantry. And written up the entire thing as a novel and become a best selling author. I can tell your fortune awaits you, Suzie. Best wishes. Gean

I agree with Gean. You must write about this in some way and not only for us. It's not fair that we should be the only audience.

Oh Suzi,
What an adventure. I suspect that you shall end up in a much better position when all is settled. I can just envision you surrounded by beloved roses and perrennials. All the besr.
Jeannie

Hi Camp (Suzy): I triple-second Gean (after became seconded by Mariannese) that you are destined to be a humor-writer. What is humor? It's making lemonade out of lemons. Here Dave Barry is the humorist-writer whom I worship and giggle everytime his book hit my tiny brain. Dave Barry didn't come from a perfect and happy home, his Mom committed suicide later ... but out of the ashes came irony, a pre-requisite for humor.

Take Jim Carry, a rich and famous funny actor ... he came from a poor family. Plenty of lemons there to make lemmonade. The Harry-Potter series is too serious for me and my 4th grader, we need something better and funnier from England.

Suzy, my husband and I sold our house and pool in a subdivision and moved onto 25 acres in the boonies. We are a mile from a town with only one traffic light. It drives us crazy to have to drive into civilization and have to deal with the traffic. It's very easy to become hermit-like.

We did not have your building restrictions, but lived in a single-wide mobile while building our home. We have a horse trailer with living quarters that when we have a houseful of company, the grandkids love to stay in, so I'm sure you can make your horse box quite comfortable. Your river sounds lovely. Of course, we now have the specter of a six-lane toll road hanging over our heads in the future, but that's another story.

Even the most humble abode can be made beautiful when surrounded by a beautiful garden, and we know what you're capable of. And, yes, pictures are a necessity.

"It's very easy to become hermit-like" - Oh Yeah! When we moved into our house 40 years ago, it was in the middle of nowhere, and now our court is just off a 6 lane major street, with a toll road built just blocks away. Gets loud to say the least! However, when I'm working in the yard don't hear any of it. Amazing how the mind works!

We lived in a mobile home for years. Try to get one with a wooden roof. (1990's or later). If not, sometimes people will give away the old ones. These have metal roofs which rattle in the wind. Put tires and rocks on the roof to keep down the noise. Some people shingle the metal. I have seen people gut these things, install sheetrock, woodstoves until the place was cherried out.
Old mobiles have too many windows, so we filled them with Thermax and covered them with paneling.
I'm wondering about electricity or plumbing, water. Do they put up a fight about that?

Kaylah brought up memories of a tiny converted 2-car garage that we rented when we first got married. We had to go the laundrymat to do our clothes. That's pretty nice compared to the poor country that I grew up with 12 siblings... I was so poor growing up that I had holes in my shoes, while walking 1 mile to school everyday.

Now I have it very nice, big house and garden, but happiness does not depend on what I have, it's the love and relationship with others that count. I was talking to a widow in her 80's, in her comfy renovated house, she told me how the fire destroyed her house when she was first married. I asked her, "was it rough after the fire?" She was in tears, "no, we were happy, we got each other ... and now he's gone, and I'm alone in this big empty house." She died to join her husband a few months later.

Google images of the river Yare showed what looked like houseboats tied up to the banks. Would this be an eventual possibility for you?

Cath

Well, Reuben and my boys are off to Norfolk (with spades, to muck about with soil samples) while I am wandering about the house feeling wistful. How to compress the debris of nearly 30 years into a small mobile dwelling. What to do about all those carefully painted jamjars (vases) with 'mum' written on them? The bad childish art? And even worse, the comfy but battered furniture which has been in the background of whole lives. Books - thousands of them. Dozens of baskets (my storage system of choice) will no doubt come in useful, hanging from the wooden (yep, Kaylah - it will have an insulated wooden roof) noggins. Then there is the garden. Am I seriously going to grub about for those really expensive martagon lilies I planted last year?. You bet, they are gonna look stunning (eventually) in the woods. Am I going to attempt more paeonia moving? And the roses?
On the other hand, outside space is infinately more important than indoor space (even if it is a windswept promontory of watermeadows and floodplain). Electricity is not going to happen (although we will have a generator for emergencies) but there are great possibilities for windpower (not so much solar) and we will have all the firewood we need to cook and keep warm with. I think, at some point in the future, we will maybe get permission to build a small cabin and we will get a stand-pipe for water plumbed in (although we could also dig a borehole as water is the least of our worries - there is heaps of it, all around us - would probably even build on pilings.
For the curious, you can look up Postwick marshes on google. Follow Ferry Lane, right to the end, you will see two stands of poplar in front of the river - ours is the one furthest from the main track but with a path which leads directly to the Yare, bounded by grazing marsh on the southern boundary of the wood and sugar beet fields to the north.
Houseboats? Don't think so - a horsebox is drier, easily more mobile and, most importantly, can be aquired for about 3000 pounds - unlike a houseboat which would cost as much as the wood (32,500 pounds).

It's funny how we spend the time buying stuff then having to get rid of them later on? I'm going through tons of toys, books, and clothes that I need to get rid off as my kid grows older. She's in 4th grade and outgrew my shoes ... She now wears my "skinny-clothes".

Mother Teresa, soon to be cannonized as saint, once said, "The only thing that we can take along when we die is what we had given to others." Thanks, Suzy, for reminding me not to accumulate possessions, but to focus on giving.

At first I was wondering what in the H a horsebox was and then I was wondering how could you live in one. The big ones around here are just for horses. Then I looked up horseboxes and thought shazzam! Though the ones on this website were brand new and in the 200,000 pound range, you could be quite comfortable in one.
Well, Here's link to the possibility of horseboxes.

Here is a link that might be useful: Horsebox

Snooped around trying to find your Ferry Lane. One had quite a few houses and ended up at a swell house. Dead end. Then I thought, she said it was wild land. Now I have to say there's several versions of that in this world, but the other Ferry Lane I found was a beautiful place. A little one lane track that went through the woods and ended right at the river. The Ferry Lane Inn was right across the river. Is that the one? The river was wide and tranquil. I could see living happily ever after. In a place like that. I would change the name to Fairy Lane.

I cannot have been far from your wood last May on my way to Great Yarmouth. I haven't seen very much of England but this area struck me as being as much of a wilderness as you can see in this domesticated country. The other area was south of King's Lynn, around West Acre, but it didn't have the benefit of water. If you set up a nursery I may come and visit. I have this perverse weakness for obscure English nurseries.

Bingo, Kaylah. That's the one. And yep, a horsebox is a neat option and of course, we will not have any horses, just an elderly collie. The other possibility is a mobile library van). We dismissed the bus or coach idea because of too many (cold) windows.
Wish you luck with an attempt at downsizing Strawbs - am currently wondering why we have at least 9 pairs of scissors!
Would love a visit, Mariannese.

Well, Suzy, I probably have that many pairs per room. When I want a pair of scissors, I want a pair of scissors--and they better be sharp. But I know exactly what you're talking about. We've been in this house 30 years, and desperately need to "purge". Scissors anyone?

I was thinking about the electricity problem and wondered why the generator wouldn't run on propane. Then I remembered those big fat fuel prices you have over there. I got to thinking about my ancestors. They ran a grain mill in Kentucky which was powered by a water wheel on the creek. If you have a creek on your property you might be able to pull off something, I saw a bunch of homemade ones on the internet.
I have a nightmare of crap here, too. I own, for instance, a 1960's set of white go go boots, still in the box. My uncle bought them at a ranch auction for me, but they were too big. They fit my daughters, though, but they will not be caught dead in them.

Halloween, Kaylah? My nieces just had grandparents' day in their high school -- but it's not what you think -- they dressed up like their grandparents. They had a ball going through all our old clothes and wigs. If they weren't a sight. I guess sometimes it's good to have a house full of "stuff".

I will follow your move with great interest---it sounds exciting---My sister has been living in Texas in a
double-wide" which she loves---she says it is the best thing they ever did---she formerly lived in a huge home --many acres with horses etc----but loves this little place and the low taxes---
I shudder at the thought of all the "stuff" I have----I have to be realistic and pare down--I will be 83 next month so you can imagine how much "stuff" we have----I've been trying to get rid of some so I know how difficult it can be-but to lighten your load will be a wonderful feeling ---- the area sounds lovely---
Keep us posted and with your gift you will be able to write a wonderful book.
Wishing you the best----Florence

My son(he's an electrical engineer) figured your generator was $6000 plus some odds and ends and an electrician. Had no way to guess the fuel cost in Great Britain. He said they're pretty noisy and you need enclose it some way or it would drive you mad.
Won't they let you put in electricity?
They used to install it free around here but now they charge you.
I watched a movie called Brassed Off last night where they shut down all the coal mines in England, but this one particular coal mine had its own brass band, which won the nationals. Went to bed and dreamed that England took everyones house and turned it into rentals.
As for go-go boots, I also own my mother's ruby red Dorothy slippers. You can wear them in fourth grade, but your feet are too big in fifth. What do you do with this stuff?

The ones that come with horse trailers (boxes) are very quiet. Ours is an Onan, and all you hear is a purring noise. Could you harness the river current to run it?

I don't know if you could harness river water to run it, but the rv website I found said to figure a half gallon of gas per hour to run it. Over here, that's 4 dollars times 12 hours, and we know what a nightmare gas is over there.
You can do without a lot of things, but what about a fridge? I did find a website for generators that are powered with wood heat.

Here is a link that might be useful: teg power

I have enjoyed reading your postings so much,I scan the names at gardenweb and read yours along with a half dozen others first. I only have Internet access for less than an hour each week, at the library and reading your witty postings and descriptions of your life and your garden have brought me great joy. I look forward to reading about your new life in Norfolk.
I feel a closeness to woodland so dear that I want to protect every inch of it that remains, for once it is paved over, it is hard to reclaim, as are all the little rivers and streams that once flowed through spaces, where cities now grow.

Luxrosa

I can say from long experience that making your own power can be very complicated and not cheap. In the 70's I lived with kerosene lamps. We had a small generater to use for power tools and a wringer washing machine. We used a minimal amount of propane for cooking. We even had a wind up phonograph. That was pretty simple. Now we have solar panels, a bank of batteries, a back up deisel generater, and an inverter. Putting that together over the years was a lot of money. I say start simply and slowly. It takes an unusal person to live this sort of life. I think you may have what it takes.

My Lehman's catalogue arrived yesterday, and I thought of you. It started out as a business which catered to the Amish and Menonites in this country - German religious sects which settled here in the 17th century. They still exist in large communities in Pennsylvania and areas in the Midwest. They do not use electricity, automobiles, etc. (they really do drive horse & buggies in the slow lane on the highways). Fabulous farmers. They are the reason there is still a market here in serious plow horses, horse drawn plows, etc. I was in PA driving around with an elderly friend who had lived there all of his life (he was "Pennsylvania Dutch", and totally in the modern world, but still was able to speak the ancient German dialect, and spoke English with a slight German accent, despite the fact that his family has been here since the 1660s!). We passed a lovely farm house with at least 2 dozen Amish men climbing all over it doing sort of construction type things. I asked my friend what was going on, and he said "They are taking the electricity out", because it had been purchased by an Amish family!

Anyway, the Lehman's catalogue has every tool & gadget you can imagine in a version that does not require power, as well as all sorts of wood stoves (with cooking ovens & tops), etc. etc. It was advertising a book about how to live without electricity, too. I thought you might find it amusing - they have a web site.

Jackie

I did find a battery powered fridge. The little ones were 650, up to a thousand. I tried to make a guesstimate on this project. My well cost 3500 21 years ago. It needs electricity to make it go.
You're not having a windmill. They're 35,000. I can't see what makes them worth that much.
I've seen solar powered cabin kits for 2250 but you have the logistics of being in the trees, plus England is cloudy and rainy a lot.
So, Camp, haven't heard from you since Saturday. It's been fun shopping for your horsebox in the woods. It's snowing here today, wet, gray, and cold. I keep cudgeling my brain trying to remember my mom's stories of growing up on the Daisy Dean river. I know they had a kerosene lamp over the table, and they had to walk down to the river for pails of water and strain the pollywogs out of it.

I was wondering about an outdoor kitchen with a wood powered stove and brick oven and large table for the times when the weather was nice and you wanted to spread out. Sunset magazine features these every now and again for backyards and they look more fun than the kitchen I have here. Something about the plants all around as you cook or sit by the hearth appeals to me. You could have a big sink and countertop as well. We make our food inside but always go outside to eat unless it is too cold or windy. I've always wanted a wood powered kitchen. We go to Civil War events and cook over the fire with our skillets, pots and tripods. The cast iron is healthy to cook in.

Some Japanese apartments look like your horsebox. Our local Japanese market has so many space saving items from Japan. Be sure to take pictures of everything. I found that I really wanted to remember the good feelings I have when I see things rather than actually store the things I wasn't using. I put the pictures on memory sticks in a fire proof safe that I can grab in an emergency. I remember a lady in Missouri on CNN after a tornado. She said she wished she had some pictures of the kids when they were young and old family photos. I felt so bad. That's when I decided to take pictures and put them in the safe. I also sent a stick to my aunt in Texas to keep for me. Strawberry is right- the most important thing to keep close is our loved ones wherever we are.

Campanula, you may be already familiar with this government scheme for encouraging self-production of electricity, but I'm posting it just in case. Who knows? you may end up as electricity seller to the national grid :)

If i had to choose between 6 acres and electicity, I'd go for the 6 acres, and believe you me I have first hand knowlege of life with kerosene lamps and a loo that's a hole in the ground.

I, too, think you're got what it takes.

Good luck and please keep up posting your fascinating accounts.

Here is a link that might be useful: scheme