modern midnight blue is gorgeous...does this rose require spraying for blackspot?

Thanks so much, labrea, especially for including the beautiful picture. I already have Route 66, its relative, and I think Midnight Blue is just what I'm looking for. Only one thing, while looking at this rose on HMFR, it occurred to me that I have a very sunny area where I want to plant these roses and the purples often fry in the sun. That's certainly true of Route 66 and Ebb Tide. I wonder if I need to rethink my whole plan. Or are there some mauves and purples that look old-rose that don't do that?

Thanks again.

Ingrid

No no no!!! What you REALLY need is International Herald Tribune, which will outbloom all of those (its descendants).
And it is 100% disease-free in SoCal.

Yes, this really is one spray:
{{gwi:314271}}

The one thing about it that you need to know is that you don't deadhead it the ARS way. You just snip off the blooms. If you do that, it can eventually get up to 3.5 or even four feet, but it is a slow process. It is naturally very low-growing.

Jeri

I love the rose, Jeri. Do I get the doggie too? (Yes, I know, only over your dead body). I need a little encouragement here because I've had it before and it just withered away into nothing. Of course I didn't know that you snip off only the flowers. It grew at the bottom of a slope, behind a retaining wall, with lots of sun and watering, and just didn't flourish. I remember the scent was lovely. I do believe I'm going to give it another try because it's so pretty and just the right size. Are you familiar with News? It was a rose I really liked, but I haven't been able to find it for sale anywhere. Loved the color and good in a vase too. Meanwhile, IHT it is; how nice if it were on sale locally. I've already spent so much in shipping costs this year.

Warm regards,

Ingrid

Well, I took the plunge and ordered four lavender-purple roses from Countryside Roses: 2 International Herald Tribune, 1 Baby Faurax and 1 Heinrich Karsch. The latter two are personally unknown to me but hopefully they won't turn out to be mistakes. They look somewhat similar to IHM but since I already have Violet Hood in that area I thought two identical roses and three somewhat similar roses would provide visual balance. Thanks for enabling me, Jeri.

Ingrid

I haven't grown NEWS -- but I can tell you that as much as I loved the blooms, IHT frustrated me for years.
It's one of those roses -- if you cut down to the "first five-leafed . . ." yadda yadda you have no rose left!!
If, instead, you just snip off those buds, it will grow from where it needs to grow from.
(This is almost the same advice I would give you for the average young Tea Rose or China.)

Jeri

I was about to recommend both Heinrich Karsh and Baby Faurax because they will stay small and have the color you want. You might want to emend your soil with some iron, because they are in a group of polyanthas that seem to have some chlorosis problems, but not insurmountable problems.
If you're looking for a big deep purple, I'd say Cardinal Hume, but I'm not sure how big it gets in SoCal.
And have you considered Verbena bonariensis for small purple blooms that come all summer?

How large a rose can you handle, Ingrid? If you arrive early enough on Saturday, you can see my mammoth IHT (heading for 5 feet). It won't die. It definitely holds color better in the hot sun than Baby Faurax whatever it is Raymond Privat. You forgot Sweet Chariot....also turn pink in the hot sun....

Ingrid, News is on the supplemental list of roses for Sequoia Nursery, whether it's in stock or not I don't know. Thought I'd just let you know though.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sequoia Nursery

If Cardinal Hume is too big, there is also Purple Buttons. It's Just like CH, only in a very small plant.
Sequoia carries it, and also carries International Herald Tribune.

Jeri

Jeri, I just looked up Purple Buttons and it's precious. Darn, it's too late now, I've placed my order. My only consolation is that they recommend afternoon shade which I do not have in that area. I wonder how the roses I ordered will respond to the hot afternoon sun. Lesds9 thank you so much for finding a possible place where I might get News. Where to put it now will be another question. Berndoodle, you must be one of these talented people who can grow giant plants but rest assured I'm not one of them. But yours must be really spectacular! I did think about Sweet Chariot but I've had it before and it wasn't very upright and didn't really bowl me over. Mine looked too much like a mini. (Please don't tell me that yours or someone else's has reached 6 feet.)

Thanks so much everyone for your input. I really appreciate it.

Ingrid

Didn't see this thread earlier or I would have recommended International Herald Tribune (which has been a blooming fool for me) and Midnight Blue also. They do stay small, but mine are thriving in a less than stellar place, i.e., in the East garden which is for all intents and purposes still under construction - the soil is not exactly optimum yet. Midnight Blue may need a bit of spraying, but its not a BS cripple.

I am very interested to hear how Baby Faurax does. I've thought about ordering it several times. I'm also curious about Ley's Perpetual.

Raymond Privat, generally speaking, is a more pleasing plant than B.F.
B.F. is stumpy and upright. R.P. is much more graceful.

Jeri

My neighbors "Outta the Blue" is only 4' tall by 3.5' wide.
It is healthier than most of her Hybrid Tea roses. I prefer its' coloring in Autumn, when the cooler temps. make it less red and a softer purple, and for that reason would suggest an hour or two of afternoon shade. She also grows "Ebb Tide". I love Ebb Tides purple blooms, and convinced myself that if it were from the 1800's I might grow it myself,were it not for its' growth habit which is stiff and rigid.
Jeri, how does "Reine des Violettes" grow in your climate?
Luxrosa

In my CLIMATE, Reine des Violettes is really very good. Disease problems are minimal. It should not be pruned much here, but probably best left as a climber of sorts.
The problem it has here is with my alkaline soil and water, which it does not tolerate well. YOU would not have that problem, I bet!
To be honest, Forest Ranch Pom-Pom is a better rose in my conditions, as it tolerates my soil and water.
And what ever that rose is that is often sold as RdV? That is actually a very good rose here!

Jeri

Would somebody please comment on Lilac Charm (LeGrice Fl, 1962)? No comments on hmf, but it is sold by Roses Unltd., Sequoia, AND Vintage which I take to be a good sign...

I was going to suggest Gardendirektor Otto Linne which for me is small more wide than tall and a light lavender. But accoring to DK it is deep pink! Maybe I have the wrong rose.

Another possibilty is Magenta. Definitely a lavender and wonderful fragance which sort of proves it is lavender. Austin style flowers and very fragrant. But I think it would be too big.

Jody, I'll post about Baby Faurax and Ley's Perpetual when they've shown what they can do.

Jeri, I'm going to think of Baby Faurax as "petite" rather than "stumpy" since I've already ordered it. Think positively, that's going to be my motto.

Jim, I've grown Gartendirektor Otto Linne and it's definitely pink. It also spread quite a bit and I'm looking for a small plant. If yours is lavender, I suspect you might have a different plant.

Luxrosa, Outta the Blue would probably get too tall, and I already have my heart set on another purple, Wild Blue Yonder, for another spot because the blooms are more ruffled. I have Ebb Tide and with a little judicious pruning it actually looks quite graceful and "old rose". And it is sooo fragrant.

Barbara, I once grew Lilac Charm because so many books praised it, and it was an attractive rose, but to me it seemed a little pale and somehow not as pretty in real life as I had expected. But it could just be me and someone else might grow it to perfection.

Thank you all so much for your interest and help.

Ingrid

Outta the Blue is definited too tall if you are looking for less than 4' tall. It also spreads considerably. It also gets better with age. I have Midnight Blue and International Herald Tribune planted in front of two Outta the Blue.

One of my pathways is yellow and purple. I love the combo. How about Wise Portia? It doesn't get very large and is so pretty. Old Port is beautiful and also not big. I'm growing a mini called Wild Plum. It grows above mini size. Sometimes when it's really hot though it gets a bit pink.

I forgot to mention
"Nimbus" which is a lovely lavender-slate-mauve. Ours is own-root from vintagegardens.com, is 3 years old and 2.5' tall. This is a rose hybridized by LeGrice, who is known for hybridizing roses of unusual hues. This is one of my favorite Florabunda roses because its' growth habit is more graceful than many of that class, and the blooms have a lot of old fashioned charm, the roses can be cupped or ruffly, and the petals have a silky appearance. When promptly deadheaded, it blooms non-stop in our garden for 3-4 months at a time, takes a couple weeks off and then keeps on blooming through Autumn.
For my tastes, I prefer "Nimbus" over "Lilac Charm", which is a sweet and simple rose, but it reads much more as pink in our warm climate.

Luxrosa

Ingrid, this probably isn't relevant to your climate but my IHT and Baby Faurax were very pinkish in the sun. Not dark purple at all. I doubt the sun is as intense where you live, though.

Carol

Carol, I imagine the sun here is quite intense since I live at 2000 feet elevation with very low humidity to temper the strength of the sun, not many trees and lots of large boulders for the heat to bounce off of. I'll just have to live with however the roses turn out and enjoy their form and (possible) fragrance.

Ladies, I've looked up your suggestion on HMFR and have seen Wise Portia at the nursery, where I was told it grew fairly large, and for now will just go with the roses I've already ordered. But thank you so much for your interest and your suggestions.

Ingrid

That midnight blue looks exactly like my Ebb Tide.

It does???? The Ebb Tide I have is packed with petals that are velvety looking. I'm not able to see any similarity between the two, except of course color.

Maybe I don't really have Ebb Tide.

Here my Ebb tide first year a cranberry color second year some dark purples darker than these and then some more burgundy/purple
{{gwi:314272}}
The crispies are day 3's this was mid August and hot hot hot. Nice fragrance but I like midnight Blue which I'll get next spring better it doesnt crisp and fades to a chalkier gray lavender blue.

I used to grow Midnight Blue and it is just as pretty and healthy as claimed. However, the blooms are very fleeting, possibly even briefer than Scentimental.

I liked it, but decided to keep only roses that I loved and thrived in my garden. I was on a campaign to tighten up my rose collection and make room for more lilies, peonies, lilacs, dahlias, salvias, daylilies, hardy geraniums -- you get the picture. (I decided that a hundred roses were plenty for me.)

Rosefolly

Yes, midnight blue fries to a gray color in full sun. I have one lavender that handles full sun very well, has old fashioned blooms and has great perfume. Mine is under 3' now but it is new so I have no idea how big it will be.
It's name is Chartreuse de Parme.

Mine is grafted on multiflora but you can get it own root from Ashdown.

{{gwi:314273}}

Ceterum, that is a stunning rose. It doesn't give the height on HMFR but I suspect it will get larger than I would like, being classed either as a hybrid tea or a shrub. It is also a modern rose, and I have a weakness for the older ones. I've already put in an order for Baby Faurax, Heinrich Karsch and two International Herald Tribune and that actually should be sufficient for now. Thank you for the photo; I enjoyed learning about this lovely rose that was not familiar to me.

Ingrid

Yes, I do not know its final size. As to the age there is only 12 years difference between IHT (1984) and CdP (1996).

You're quite right, they were both bred recently. They don't metion the origins of Chartreuse de Parme on HMFR but IHT has R. californica in its origins twice (once through Lilac Charm) and that and its appearance make me think of it as closer to an old rose. Also it fits better with the other two roses in this bed that both have very few petals. I wanted a contrast to the remaining planted areas that have mostly double roses.

Ingrid

I'm glad you ordered Baby Faurax. I look forward to your reports on it.

My Outta the Blue was a nice plant, but sometimes the color was a very modern hot pink. At other times it was a nice purple. It was very healthy & vigorous, but a very stiff plant. It's fragrance was outstanding!

I saw several Wild Blue Yonder roses recently at the Fort Worth Botanical Garden. The plants themselves did not look that happy, but the blooms were incredible and a true purple at the time of my visit.

Randy

Outta the Blue has a really nice color but you're right about it being a stiff plant, which doesn't marry so well with more old rose types. I have been wanting Wild Blue Yonder for some time and it does seem a little looser in stature and I just like the shape of the flowers (although RdV it's not). Jeri says Baby Faurax is stumpy and I've heard before that it's a very small plant, but I'll just have to see how it does for me. If nothing else I like the name!

Ingrid

This thread is extremely relevant to my interests, and finding such
specific discussions is a treasure that only Gardenweb offers. Midnight
Blue is exactly what I'm looking for!