No. I don't believe in "rose-sick soil."
But I DO believe in remnants of old feeder roots inadvertently left behind to decay.
And I think those are better gone.

New roses -- why NOT nice new soil?

Jeri

If you don't replace it I'd suggest working in lots of organic compost.
I don't believe in sick soil either.

isn't all soil old? I am with chuck billie, i'd just add compost and maybe some other amendments.

Ah, remnants of feeder roots. There's usually something to these old legends, and I'll bet that's the key. Well, the last garden we renovated we removed HUGE quantities of soil. That time we did it because we found crown gall on the old plants. Think I'll dig up a couple right away and take a look. If we have gall in this bed too I KNOW we should replace the soil...

If you have something like a Bobcat to do the work, maybe. If you have to do it by hand...yikes. Either way, I would add a lot of high-quality compost.

Sometimes I remove some soil from a bed and switch it out with soil from under my compost bins. The soil that has been sitting under the compost bins for a couple of years is the best soil in the yard. Roses planted in that skip the "sleep" and "creep" and proceed straight to "leap".

The feeder roots thing, I should say, is not my own thought.

It was Dr. Cairns, who is after all a biochemist, who told me that rotting feeder roots
give off gasses which are harmful to new roses.

It made sense to me when he said it, and it still does.

Jeri

I think i'd just spray some charcoal lighter fluid on them and do a little prairie burn. you wouldn't have to remove the old roses and voila, sterilized and ready for planting.
If you had enough rotting feeder root gas, you probably could skip the lighter fluid.

yes, all soil is old. We have what is considered to be young soil here in this area, but that means only about 10,000 years old, since the most recent glaciers retreated.

But raised beds are a different matter. Yes, it's practical to replace that soil in part. Mostly what you're replacing is the organic component so no need to replace it completely.

To some degree, the rotting feeder roots theory might make sense, but what do you think all that organic matter in the soil is doing? It's decomposing, ie rotting. That's how the nutrients in organic matter are released for plant use - by rotting. A decently aerated and microbially balanced soil will not be adversely affected by decomposing old feeder roots. They simply add to the organic component of the soil - isnt' that what we all think we need lots of??

And no the organic matter does not have to be pre-decomposed in the compost bin. Worms and moles and gophers and ants bury lots of undecomposed organic matter all the time. We make things harder than they have to be, by insisting that we have to manage the decomposition of organic matter before it can be added to the soil, when these critters have been doing it for millennia, and the plants and the soil microbial community are adapted to working with this system.

Now if the soil does not drain, or has too little pore space for air exchange, then you would have a problem with anaerobic decomposition, but not just of old feeder roots - of anything organic. Including the living roots of the plants you just planted. Anaerobic decomposition will definitely give off toxic gasses such as methane, as well as causing other problems. Normal, aerobic decomposition does not cause problems, but is a necessary process.

But you have a raised bed. I will presume that the drainage is fine, and that it was initially filled with some kind of planting mix which consisted of part screened mineral soil and part compost and part ground up tree bark. The mineral soil does not decompose in 10 years, so all you need to replace is the organic components, which do decompose quickly.

Crown gall bacteria are everywhere. I would not replace soil because of crown gall. You won't escape it except temporarily. Now root knot nematodes, I'd replace that soil, if that were the problem.

On the rotting feeder roots: if winter kills them, then aren't we getting them every year?
And are rotting Dr. Huey roots worse than assorted rootlets coming from own root roses?

I know there probably aren't any answers, but those are two questions that I'd ask.

Well, I confess that I've been replacing part of the soil whenever I place a rose where one has previously been planted for probably nigh on 30 years at least. One of many "this is the way I've always dunnit" things I do". I've gotten curious about how others grow their roses so thanks for your responses. I really have no worries. This is a good bed which gets a lot of organic amendments-- alfalfa, coffee grounds, and compost from our own pile. Thankfully it's a raised bed so the replacement will be easy.

Ten-year old soil sounds like a mature garden soil to me. Why do you want to start over? The only issue I have with removing and replanting roses is that nasty virused Dr. Huey roots left in the soil. Dr. Huey is almost impossible to eradicate here. It pops up all over from root divisions. I dig it out several years running and it still comes back. But that's a whole different problem.

I've never had any problem with removing a rose and replanting another in its spot. I don't replace the soil but I do top dress with manure/compost. It's taken me eight years to finally get the soil in my beds to the point that it is healthy, filled with worms, and loamy enough that I can dig a hole without a pick axe. I really don't think you need to replace the soil, especially since you say the soil has had amendments added all along.

Carol

Soil isn't old or new. Its abused or replenished. By adding mulch, the soil replenishes itself as Mother Nature intended. By limiting the application of harsh chemicals and providing chopped leaves, coffee grounds and other amendments to the bed, the soil will support roses just fine.

British rose publications often mention soil sickness. They have a problem over there that we rarely see in the U.S.

I am fairly diligent in removing feeder roots when re-planting, as Jerijen and others suggested, but have had no problem retaining the same soil. I do mix in extra compost when I re-plant to lighten up the texture, and top with mulch, because our soil is mostly dense clay and the organics break down over time.