Hey! That's a very good point Olga!

It can be hard to know, when a rose fails, whether it's a bad plant, or a good plant
in a bad location.

Jeri

Olga, I know the feeling. It is something you hate to do, but once done, you don't know why you waited so long.

sAmmy

Olga, I too am struggling with the decision to get rid of Cl. Cecile Brunner (I suspect yours is not the climbing version). I bought it in a moment of weakness just to fill up a space, for which it's actually too large. It's totally healthy, which doesn't help, but it doesn't thrill me, almost no rebloom, and I just have to harden my heart. It doesn't help that my husband planted it and now will have to take it out. I so wish I had the ability to make the right choice in the first place instead of making mistake after mistake and then having to rectify it. (Okay, I'm done whining.)

Ingrid

I have a much longer list than that to meet the shovel this fall. It's just too darn hot right now to wrestle with huge roses. Many times I have bought more than one clone of a particular rose if I really wanted it and the first plant didn't thrive. :-) Now, if it thrives but is covered with blackspot, there's no second chances. I know it took lots of time and effort to dig those two up!

Carol

Olga, that must have been a lot of work! I've been SPing a number of roses to make room for more disease resistant varieties. But at least my roses haven't been growing long enough to get that big yet. Lucky me, i guess.
Today I got rid of SDLM and felt bad. But I realized that mostly I was feeling badly because everyone else says how great it is. My experience is that it has almost constant mildew and this season, is completely defoliated by blackspot. Yuck. I decided it had to go. Also, thanks for all the helpful advice you've given me lately. Shelley

Well...you did the right thing, Olga. Cecile Brunner - man that's a big rose. I get out a three pronged stool and bullwhip and go at it twice a year, and it's enormous just the same. Gotta move it this December, and do not look forward to it. "roots down to China", OTFLMHO

I got a little sad hearing that ... you guys sp'd two of my favorites ... SdlM and Marchessa Boccella (aka Jacques Cartier).
Oh well, ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Randy

I plan to take out my Cl Cecille Brunner, too. Man, that will be a job. It's only four years old but it's big. I planted it next to the fence, on the north side, behind the trees, without thinking that it would get no sun and of course would hardly bloom. I've decided it's not worth it to try it in a better spot. I have a Banksiae lutescens (single yellow) to plant IN FRONT of the trees, on the south side. That should do much better, and it's thornless, unusual and lovely to boot.

I have a little list of rose to SP at home, which is rather amazing for me because I'm very, very patient. In the cemetery, though, I'm much more "off with their heads!" We have a Gen Washington whose blooms almost always are deformed - I've concluded it's some sort of virus - the blooms look like they're made of grosgrain ribbon, with all of the petals very closely packed, but the novelty isn't enough to have us keep it, particularly with two other healthy plants of it in the cemetery. We also plan to take out one of the gigantic eglantines. We have the luxury of the Sheriff's Work Project crew, and you'd be surprised at how quickly those men can remove a rose. But still, it's going to be an awful job.
Anita

My CB was a bush form not a climber, so I was expecting based on all I coud read in the boooks or here, moderate polyantha size bush. The good point it bloomed almost constantly, so first two years I was happy, then I started to worry and in a few more years it became obvious that this rose can't stay where it is planted. Unfortunately Idon't have another spot for such a big rose.
Randy ,don't feel bad, I know JC is wonderful. I love it and that is why I didn't want to keep this plant. I want to enjoy this rose, so need healthy non-virused plant to see the bloomes open.

Olga

I'm in the process of getting rid of a Queen of the Prairies that never really did well. It may very well be virused, and we'd be willing to replace it if we could find a probably healthy replacement. However, it isn't going to be easy to get it out. I'm starting by cutting back the canes, and after that's done I'll dig out the rootball.

I have a Lazurus rose.
I moved and could find no room to grow sweet, fragrant and lovely "Albertine". I tried to give it away, but no takers. I cut it down and threw it away, but this week I've noticed some healthy canes with foliage identical to "Albertine"s growing up from where I thought I'd dug up all its' roots. Welcome back, Al.
Lux

When I get weird blossoms I stop fertilizer. My mom got on a miracle Grow kick. She had these antique strawberries that did wonderfully in our climate. They began to grow elongated berries. I tried new starts from runners but they still had elongated berries. I let them go never realizing that I was going to have a hard time finding such good tasting prolific strawberries again.
Anyhow, I send SAS for roses that 1. are huge, 2. get blackspot.(Too dry for blackspot here. 3. had a hankering to try.
I'm growing SDLM in a pot inside. Cut off her fertilizer entirely.

Kaylah,I had different problem, not the kind of blooms that you get from from too much fertilizer. Anyway I only fertilize in spring and very moderately.
What I had is when half the bud turns brown and stops in development and dries and another half of the same bud tries to open and it results in this grossly misformed bloom, if it ever opens. If this happens with just a few blooms, it is annoying, but not so bad. However when 80-90% of blooms on a bush covered with hundreds of buds are this way and you hardly get any normal blooms, it is not acceptable. As I said I got three roses like that (Charles de Mills, Jaques Cartier and Belle Isis)from one place approx 6-7 years ago. All other roses in my garden are fine, many planted the same year and some even from the same source. I substituted CdM quite soon (2-3 years)as soon as I realized the problem and different plant in the same exact spot is producing wonderful blooms. I waited longer with Belle Isis and JC due to some reasons. I had to SP them earlier.
Olga

I've been thinking of Louis Gimard to meet the shovel. So disappointed in this rose. I have Teas waiting that I know are good. I understand why people rid some roses but it's still a little difficult.
Has anyone grown Louis Gimard with good experiences? I would like to know why it's a dud.

Carla

Olga, it's that time for me too. I feel your pain s.p. a 7x7 rose. I've got a really big one I want to get rid of too, because it's outgrown its spot. I also have several that are too blackspot prone even for me being very tolerant of some bare legs. Hard work!

Olga, I had a rose do that this spring. It was Leda. I thought I had been late with the water.
It must be some kind of virus or bug. Or something. I was standing there looking at it thinking if it keeps that up, out it goes.
And it could be something it was fed at the nursery.

Kaylah, I found all possible explantions and excuses for Belle Isis over these 5-6 years, but every year it was the same. And I know it is not Belle Isis feature, it was just that particular plant. I know it is also not location because another Charles de Mills in the exact same location (just Sped one and plant another) is absolutely stunning and the first one hardly had any blooms normally opened.
Lori, good luck. Let me know if you need help.
Olga

Sounds like an opportunity for 2 new ones.

I am about to SP a huge Rêve d'Or here in Chapel Hill, NC. Anyone want it? It is too massive to mail, but if a local wants to come by and get it you are most welcome. It is just too big for the spot I have. Denise

Olga, did your buds look like this?

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These were from Chloris, and the same thing has happened every spring(3 years) - half turns black, and the resulting bloom is tiny and mishappen. I have NEVER had a good bloom from her. I also would love to know what causes this. If you ever find out, please post it. I will be sp'ing Chloris next summer if this happens again. I have only so much patience.
Judith

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This is interesting. I was thinking about leaf miners but that's not it. There's a bug which lives at the roots. I bought some Bayers which kills bugs at the roots, but its only enough to do 4 bushes. Kinda pricey, at 21 dollars a bottle.
It looked like a 2000 dollar bug kill.
Maybe the thing to do is rip apart the buds looking for something infesting it.

I'm sp'ing my 2nd Don Juan. It looks awful and the root stock is starting to take over. It still blooms but has NO leaves on it and only two canes which both look yucky when cut into. It was a body bag,so I can't really complain. But it was doing fine until that Easter Freeze last year. That, I believe, damaged it beyond repair. Actually I have a few that still are not 100% from that freeze. Looking back, I should have pruned every rose down to 6 inches after the freeze.

I do have a Vintage, virus free, own root DJ in a pot waiting to go in next spring. It's already bloomed a few times. Like Carla, I'm waiting for the cool weather before tackling the beast.

Judith, as far as I can see, this is something different then in my case. The pictures that you show are something I often see on young plants when they set too many buds, but not yet ready to support them or if there is not enough water or nutrients. Usually this simptoms dissapear or get much better as rose mature. Some roses are more prone to this then others.
Olga

Thanks so much, Olga; maybe more water (maple tree nearby) and alfalfa in the spring (I finally found a source) will help, plus, of course, maturity.
Judith