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Grafting pin oak to provide tolerance to alkaline soils

10 years ago

I was wondering if oaks are commonly grafted.. and if so, do they grow well for years. I'm talking 50, 100 years down the road..... I was thinking in having some pin oaks grafted onto Shumard or some other alkaline tolerant species... has this been done before?

osprey

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Comments (10)

dricha
10 years ago
I don't think so. White oaks can be grafted but I think most varietal red oaks are done from cuttings. Check the link of Pavia nursery in Belgium.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pavia nursery
ospreynn
Original Author
10 years ago
Are you sure, I believe it is possible to graft red oaks as well.... I was concerned about the rootstock providing necessary iron
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Get a soil test to find out just what you have. You may have a salinity problem, or you may have a high sodium soil producing alkali. The white powder on the surface suggests one or both of these are the problem, in which salts from the soil come to the surface with moisture, which evaporates leaving the salt behind as a white powder, and eventually accumulating to the point you have this problem. Whether you can restore the soil to health depends on how the problem got there. Talk to your local ag extension agent about your soil test results for recommendations on clearing up the problem with the soil and for suggestions on trees which will grow well in your area on these types of soils. If you can remove the salt, the trees you have should do fine. If you have a highly alkaline/sodic soil, the use of gypsum can help while you clean the salts out of the soil. In addition, ferrous sulphate can help offset the iron chlorosis these trees may have, which is caused by the high pH tying up the iron in the soil, then the trees will become much healthier. But, you will need to treat the soil problem or you will never be able to do much with trees. If you can treat the problem, you will have an excellent chance of growing many different kinds of trees. Where I live had a similar problem--50 years ago when my dad bought the place the soil surface was pure white, nothing grew but one small, sickly box elder. After getting help from the extension agent and soil conservationists, he cured the problem leading to the salt accumulation, and within a couple years had trees growing which are now over 100 feet high in some cases.
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whaas, I am having trouble finding the specific reference about pH. I know that I have read it in more than one place. However in way of proxy I will give you the links below Scarlet Oak are predominately on dry ridges, and other dry sites in that range, though certainly not always. They are also found on good sites with definitely acidic soil. http://www.na.fs.fed.us/pubs/silvics_manual/volume_2/quercus/coccinea.htm Those ridges are often carbonate rock. The map at the link below below showing where those carbonate rocks are located. http://water.usgs.gov/ogw/pubs/fs00165/Images/fig9.jpg I will use my general region, as I know it best. In the first link reference i made of nearly pure stands in Missouri on upland sites. These upland sites are in the Missouri Ozarks (I live in the Arkansas Ozarks). The Ozarks are very high in carbonate rocks (basic resulting in locally high pH) where soils are thin. i.e. ridge tops. BTW, this is similar to Cotinus obovatus, except those are generally found immediately above limestone bluffs, of one rocky outcrops. Lastly, I have Scarlet Oak growing in concrete landscape islands locally, that will most definitely be over 7 in pH. I will look for the other reference when I can. Arktrees
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This is a link (in English) of scientific trials made in Turkey of grafting chestnut on Quercus Vulcania Boiss that they say to be very common in Anatolia & Lebanon. Jerusalem is not so far, do you have this species in Israel ? They report trees having lived from 1893 to 1946 so it's rather durable. They report also that two rejection periods due to problems of compatibility do exist : an early one during the first two years an a later one during 5th to 7th year. So patience & resignation are needed. https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCcQFjAAahUKEwjGxoGO1ODGAhVBOhQKHSsdC8w&url=http%3A%2F%2Farticle.sciencepublishinggroup.com%2Fpdf%2F10.11648.j.aff.20130202.18.pdf&ei=cyqoVYbBHMH0UKu6rOAM&usg=AFQjCNHV1jijNoPzsNbdZMGzE8jn_w-0wg&sig2=Wq5U54OHOrxB496Q5Ff3ew&bvm=bv.97949915,d.d24 You were wondering why I am testing red oak : this is because here, there grow much much faster than other species during the first tree years and from what I read, it's important to do the graft on young trees, and vigorous ones should work better. The fact that it is not in the same group as white oak does not seem important as chestnut group is much further anyway. It's proven that this association in durable on white oaks, on quercus petraea, now on quercus vulcania. On evergreen oaks, it works but we do not know about duration, a rejection on the 7th year could make the grafter think that it's purely bad luke when the Turkisk link says that this is a standard compatibility problem rejection. So the doors are open...
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lucky_p
10 years ago
There are more incompatibility issues amongst the red/black oaks than with the white oak group, but some folks are grafting them - and I've seen discussions on another list just this week regarding grafting pin oak onto Shumard and other species that are more pH tolerant, and it seems to work well.
ospreynn
Original Author
10 years ago
Hi lucky,

do you mind sharing some links to those discussions? very interesting indeed.....
I wonder what other rootstock can be used....

osprey
lucky_p
10 years ago
osprey,
Can't link to 'em, as it's a 'restricted' discussion group.
Long and short of it is that, several folks have had some success - albeit with low numbers of plants - grafting things like Q.palustrus and Q.lobata, which don't fare well in a particular area or soil type onto appropriate understocks which are well-suited to the growing conditions.

Can try to check back, but I believe the pin-on-Shumard combination you mentioned in your original post was one that had worked well.
ospreynn
Original Author
10 years ago
Hi lucky,

If you can double check it would be nice... I also believe pin and shumards are compatible....

What is a problem with Q. lobata? why would you like to graft it onto something else....

osprey
lucky_p
10 years ago
Have not grown lobata here - well, not in years - but evidently there's something about soil/moisture or something that it just 'doesn't like' on its own roots here in the east - but grafted on bicolor or macrocarpa, it seems to do just fine - or so I'm told.
I do have one small graft of Q.macrocarpaXlobata growing here; expect the hybrid will be just fine.

I've been grafting members of the white oak group for years - using mostly macrocarpa rootstock, as that's what I have readily available.
Just started trying a few red/blacks a year or so back; had decent success fostering grafts onto some young M.rubra trees planted alongside the driveway until I can get some more seedlings going for dedicated rootstock use.
ospreynn
Original Author
10 years ago
I have a small lobata in the ground for almost two years now.. so far so good. Do you happen to have pics of those macrocarpaxlobata? I bet it is a very interesting plant.
Have you been able to graft any pin oaks onto rubra rootstock. I wonder what other rootstock may be compatible. The little I have read tells me that red oaks are extremely hard to graft, with possible incompatibility issues many years after grafting.
hairmetal4ever
10 years ago
Just grow a Shumard - far better tree all-around IMHO.
ospreynn
Original Author
10 years ago
I have 4 or 5 shumards already.. I really would like to have a pin tho... it has a very distinctive branching pattern...
but you are right, shumard is a very good tree, and does very well around here...

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