I purchased PJPII from J&P the first year it was available (3 or 4 yrs ago). It was the smallest bare root plant I'd ever received from J&P, & it turned out to be a real underachiever in my garden -- very small blooms on a very wimpy bush. I was surprised because of all the raves reviews about the variety.

This spring I ordered a second PJP from S&W. It also was a very small bare root in comparison to the others I received from that supplier. The two PJPs are now growing in close proximity to each other; the difference between the two plants is remarkable. The newer of the two is performing MUCH better than my original -- the bush is sturdier and has more dense foliage, & it produces more (& larger) blooms. If it weren't for the strong lemony fragrance, I might suspect that my first plant is a variety other than PJP. At any rate, my older one will be SP'd come fall. I've read here of people getting weak plants that just don't thrive for whatever reason, & I think that may be the case with some PJP plants.

As far as I can determine, ALL PJPs now in commerce are ownroot plants (a la J&P's 'New Generation'). It would be interesting to know how it would perform if grafted. FWIW, a newer J&P introduction that also seems to be available only as an ownroot is 'Sedona'.

Mine is 2 yrs old and grafted. It's a J&P but purchased locally (where I could see the plant before buying). It's absolutely gorgeous. The main canes are thick and strong (at least an inch diameter). Flowers are at about 4' high.

Last year when I did the winter pruning I pruned very lightly (as I do my Austins). It grew so much that it was 5' tall and couldn't support the blooms. They fell over and the middle of the bush got so thick that leaves yellowed from lack of light. This year I pruned more like a hybrid tea -- took off some height and made is vased shaped. That's what it needed because it's been wonderful this year.

Rosecorgis,

Is your J&P 'Pope John Paul II' grafted onto Fortuniana rootstock? If not, then it's likely that you plant is an ownroot.

It probably would have been clearly marked on the container in your local nursury if it was a Fortuniana graft. I could be mistaken, but I think this year is the very first year that J&P has offered it on Fortuniana. J&P's wholesale site lists 'Pope John Paul II' as being available only as an ownroot, so I have to assume that container plants of that variety sold to nurseries would be ownroots. The retail site is currently listing only the Fortuniana graft.

I thought mine had died the first winter, but I don't winter-protect. Shocked to see it come back spring of '09! This year it is stronger than it was last year, but still weak. Still keeps pumping out heavenly blooms, though. I am going to get one or three more as soon as I can get the rest of my pot ghetto planted and justify it. :o)

I think mine is own-root. As I sit here, I haven't run down to look for a bud union, but I believe that's how it came. Mine is only two years old. At first it was not at all impressive, smallish blooms, not very many, and a slow-growing bush. This spring it has taken off more and is more on-par with my other roses. I think the difference may simply be that it is own-root and therefore needs a couple years to catch up. Mine just finished a quite respectible flush of 12-15 blooms. Very nice appearance and fragrance. So far it is growing upright but slightly spreading, fairly bushy. I'll bet it looks even better next year. I tend to have a lot of trouble with thrips damage here. I've been impressed that PJPII seems reasonably resistant to their damage--for a white rose, that is.
Mike

I tried twice. Both times it died before ever producing nice blooms...just dwindled away. One of the weakest roses I have ever bought and I have bought many. Now its spot is taken by Moondance and Fabulous (who is just that!)

The first year I was really impressed. It seemed to be very vigorous and disease resistant but it has been shrinking and now two years later its a weak spindly plant. I'm considering shovel pruning it but I really want it to succeed--the blooms are gorgeous and fragrant. If it was a grafted plant I would get another--sometimes you get a bad graft. But an own root plant--how can they screw it up?

I'm very disappointed in J and P "new generation" own roots. It seems that they are all doing this--doing well the first year and dwindling down after that. I've shovel pruned most of them, the others are on my SP list.

Interesting. (Really this is the third thread in a row that I am the eight poster on, so I had to say SOMEthing, right?)

I sure do want to give PJPII another go. To own-root or to graft?

The first one I had was grafted from J&P and it was very weak- finally dying away. The second one was from Orchard Supply Hardware and I don't know for sure but I think it is on Huey. This plant sat in a prime rose location and didn't do much for two years. Years 3 and 4 have been outstanding. New canes always growing and flowers keep forming if I keep the hips cut off. It's 4 feet tall and 5 feet wide now.

Dr. Keith Zary of Jackson & Perkins hybrized the HT 'Pope John Paul II'. Jackson & Perkins holds the exclusive rights to the rose, its propagation and its wholesale distribution. If you did not purchase your 'Pope John Paul II' directly from J&P, the reseller who sold you the rose purchased it wholesale from J&P. J&P introduced 'Pope John Paul II' as an ownroot rose and has never sold 'Pope John Paul II' grafted onto Dr Huey or Multiflora rootstock.

After it introduced 'Pope John Paul II', J&P contracted with MerryGro Farms of Florida to produce a number of its rose varieties (including PJPII) budded onto Fortuniana rootstock. MerryGro Farms went out of business shortly after the contract was negotiated, but J&P proceeded with its plans to market a selection of roses on Fortuniana. So, those of you who have (or had) a grafted 'Pope John Paul II' have it on Fortuniana -- and you've not had it very long.

If you're absolutely certain that you have a PJPII grafted onto a rootstock other than Fortuniana, I suspect that J&P would really like to know where you purchased it.

Seems like most of us who are complaining about PJPII are in the PNW. Perhaps it doesn't like our climate or our soils?

Mine is own root (a J&P bodybag from a big box store) and is a decent-sized plant, but the canes are a little on the thin side. I attributed this to it not being in full sun. I've seen a couple that were big 5x4' strong plants. Mine is maybe 5x3'.

Mine was purchased as a beautiful, blooming, potted rose, from a very reputable dealer. The shrub was beautiful. It dwindled this year but actually came back, but spindly canes and only 2 blooms. But I mulch deeply and we had nothing but rain day after day this spring, so thought it had drowned. Gonna pour the old alfalfa on it today with the rest of the roses. Hope I can get it really healthy. I bought it on the day a dear friend died, so it is important to me.

The confusion about the roots on PJPII probably is caused in part because we tend to think of own-root roses as arriving on our doorsteps as leafy containerized plants, not as dormant bareroots.

It seems to me that J&P isn't attempting to draw as much attention to their 'New Generation' plants as they once did. In the descriptions of each rose variety, you now have to look for that little stylized rose symbol (and be aware of what it means) to know if you're ordering an own-root rather than a grafted plant.

Here is a link that might be useful: J&P Own-roots

Seems like most of us who are complaining about PJPII are in the PNW. Perhaps it doesn't like our climate or our soils?

I was directed to this thread from a thread I started HERE. I live in North Carolina and mine grows like a bonsai. It is not so short, but no branch grows more than an inch or two away from from the main cane. The flowers grow right off the cane. It looks like a few fuzzy green sticks from a distance :-)

In NC we have Witherspoon Rose. They are a great place and sell potted roses in the late spring. I think the one I have will be replaced with a vigorous one I pick out there next year. Thank you all for your posts.

I cancelled Pope John Paul II's date with Mr Shovel. I gave him a big dose of Miracid as a last resort and he is now doing great. I suspect that this rose is a heavy feeder and needs a boost from liquid fertilizer. It also may be fussy about pH-- my soil pH is slightly high so I used Miracid. Since this is an own root plant, we can expect that it won't respond exactly like a plant grafted on Dr Huey. Dr huey is tolerant of of high pH but PJPII may not be.

My advice is to check pH and fertilize with the appropriate liquid fertilizer. This may be a case where "crack for roses" is needed. But if you live in a cold winter area DONT DO IT NOW!!! You dont want to stimulate a lot of tender new growth this close to winter. Plan on supplementing your regular fertilizer program with liquid fertilizer starting next Spring.

Well, I thought I had a PJPII on Dr. Huey, but now that you mention the "new generation" bareroots, I'm not at all sure (and starting to doubt that, actually). I got my first PJPII as a bareroot, and a very big bareroot at that, as I had first choice from my nursery (Laguna Hills) on the day they came in, the first year they sold them. It dwindled that first year, and is still a two blooms per cycle plant. (Ick!) Deb Zary gave me my next plant -- a band sized own root that got a slightly better location in the garden. Both the original plant and the one Deb gave me are anemic little plants that barely bloom. Then last February, I got one of the J&P grown fortuniana plants -- that one took off and is growing very well. That fortuniana plant is already head and shoulders above the two older ones in my garden, and it's still in a 5 gallon pot. Blooms more too, and the blooms are larger and just seem healthier.

And my roses get fed VERY well (monthly with dry organics and an occasional booster with a soluble fertilizer, which varies between Magnum Grow, alfalfa tea, liquid kelp or fish emulsion and weekly sprays that include Response). So it's not a problem here with feeding them enough -- they could not eat more.

All of which leads me to believe that this is a rose that, despite what J&P's marketing group says, does not grow well on its own roots.

I have an actual Dr. Huey plant that just came up on its own because I had a pot there where the roots grew through the bottom of the pot and then I moved the pot severing those roots (and the dang Dr. Huey grew), and I may just go graft a PJPII up to it to see what happens.

Hmmm -- much to think about here. But I don't think I would ever recommend this rose on its own roots. It has great year around growing conditions here and has not been good on its own roots.

Kathy

Mine was completely lack luster for over a year. Now it is a fine large floriferous shrub.

My two PJPII plants give me quite a few blooms, most of which are of fair to poor quality, and often on weak stems. However, the two or three really fine roses they've produced have been enough to make me want to keep the plants around in the hope that they'll eventually amount to something.

I strongly suspect, though, that PJPII on its own roots is never going to reach its full potential in my garden. Perhaps as a grafted plant it wouldn't perform any better in my heat/humidity, but I'd sure like to try. I've not yet attempted any Fortuniana grafts -- maybe PJP will be my first. Would rather have it on Huey or Multiflora, though . . .

Kstrong, I hope you decide to graft PJP to Huey (and succeed in the effort). I don't know if there are any legal implications to doing that, but if there are, perhaps (since you're acquainted with Ms. Zary) you could get some kind of dispensation. At any rate, I'd sure like to know how it performs on that rootstock.

[IMG]http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r180/doglover4952/fleurs09044.jpg[/IMG]

Worth every aggravating moment. lol

I got PJPII as a half-priced bagged specimen in April and planted it immediately. Early growth was a bit slow, but similar to other roses planted in the same condition at the same time. The early flowers were a bit small but still very nice with a fairly high petal count. I put in a drip system and this and other roses planted in the same bed, shifted into high gear and began to grow more quickly with markedly larger foliage. The flower size increased greatly with subsequent flushes. The plant is now around 3 feet high and around 2.5 feet across. It is a winner in my garden and easily the best white that I have ever grown. Once the plant had some size, I was feeding it with around 1/3 cup of Vigoro granular rose fertilizer. I am suprised to read that so many accomplished rose gardeners are having a difficult time growing this rose.

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Two years ago I transplanted a boxed one that didn't do much. As an experiment I cut all the canes off, as it didn't have much of a root system. Up came one vigorous cane. It now has at least 8 canes coming off that one cane, which is now 1/2 inch thick! The bush is now 3 feet tall and produces flushes of blooms, though the mid summer blooms were small, as expected. It is easily the biggest "single" cane rose I've grown.

I got mine from a local nursery, but I think it originated from J&P. Mine finished itâÂÂs 3rd season. ItâÂÂs small (3âÂÂx3âÂÂ) but healthy, this is the first year I would say itâÂÂs well formed. I love it, itâÂÂs the only white HT I havenâÂÂt killed. IâÂÂm glad itâÂÂs small, thatâÂÂs what I was hoping for. It bloomed well most of the season, I sprayed once/month and it got no disease (which is pretty significant around here). IâÂÂm trying to propagate it, so that tells you that itâÂÂs a keeper for me.

ok was looking through this old post just bought PJPII at a small local shop for 15.00
has a weeks tag on it then says in small print its a J&P rose. it has a strong root stock on it, it smells divine!
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I still have my PJP plant, and am still unimpressed with it. I think it's a rose that probably performs best under conditions milder than what I can provide.

I think that it is inherently a fine rose -- if you can supply the climatic conditions it seems to require. I'll be removing mine this fall. If it ever becomes available as a grafted plant (on anything other than Fortuniana), I might be tempted to try it again.

It's an old discussion, I didn't even have PJPII at the time it was current. Mine is a grafted rose from Edmunds roses. I got it 4 years ago, and it has been a vigorous rose / frequently blooming from the start. It came bare root. The flowers are huge and and the foliage pretty black spot free for our area - I'm in seattle. It also is in a location that gets a bit more shade than is ideal, near a huge Japanese black pine. It gets at least 6 hours of sun but it's morning sun, the rose is shaded by the house from early afternoon on. I have very few hybrid tea roses I've bought for my yard, most are different varieties of old garden roses. This one is such a great rose I made an exception, and it's been a great rose / gorgeous & fragrant right next to my front porch.

Thanks Jackie, I just got one this year. It was only $8 so I figured it was worth a shot.

I love mine - its an old one from Jackson Perkins. It looks rough right now, we just survived "Snowmageddon" where temps got to 3. It was horribly cold all week. It is still alive - a big bush - and I am waiting to see what other tiny leaves come out on it before I start pruning it. Smells divine and has been a hardy rose for me. I may get another one just it case. One of my favorite whites.

Hey Kristine LeGault 8a pnwhow is your PJPII faring now? I am tempted to get a standard this spring (have the shrub already and love it).

Actually, second year it started dying. There was no reason, it just withered and died. I would actually try again but not with a standard. The blooms are incredible!

Bummer about it dying, Kristine! But yes, I love the blooms on my shrub. Great fragrance, and no disease here.

My nail lady was gifted a Pope John shrub and I am really watching it to see how hers does. I was really bummed to lose mine because it was beautiful and really spendy lol

out of all my roses this has been one of the easiest and nearly always in bloom from early spring to late fall. grafted rose from edmonds roses. its planted in only half day sun / east facing location in the PNW and gets less blackspot than all my other roses except the rugosas or tea noisettes.

Kristine,

I think the most impressive part of your statement is that your nail lady actually knows the variety name of her roses. Do you only patronize rose experts? Do your pharmacist, grocer, and doctor know their roses names too? Lol!

I think PJPII is an all around ideal rose.

Ben, sadly my nail lady is a rose killer. I gave get an Easy Does It and she killed it. But she has the most amazing garden and huge pots of tropicals, but roses, nope . I try to guide her but I guess that she is better at other plants.

Another client gifted her the Pope so I am really trying to help her keep it healthy.