Im thinking after reading this two things. One my pile wasnt big enough in the first place and second after getting it to 130 and not getting it there again all winter that by spring it was done. Also Ive read that once your pile is finished that when it cools then worms move in and finish the pile actually making it darker. Im also gathering that especially at first you should turn it every 3-4 days and that the turning process during this period will help heat it up. Im just not sure how to gather more debris for keeping the pile hot once the pile start going down.

I cannot thank all of you enough. These are excellent suggestions even Batya brought to light my silly A/C water that I can use which currently has buckets beneath and is, literally, for the birds (and whatever can get to it). I think I can make the alterations as suggested and have nice little mini eco systems revolve around the a/c units even though they are not running on a constant basis. In the meantime my husband suggested burying the compost right into the garden to be planted for fall. The trench composting suggested confirmed that! I think we'll be doing that as well. Luckily, I began vermicomposting a couple years ago. Boy, now those little buggers are hard to keep moist nowadays even though they are inside. I've had wonderful friends dig up their yard worms and mail them to me! We have such extreme stupid temps and weather I just keep them indoors. My silly visitors do not even realize they're socializing near by a tub of worms and assume the blue plastic tub is a toy box for the kiddos. The oddity of a blue 35 gallon rubbermaid tub with wire mesh screens on each side never hits them. ROFL I love my wormies and so do the kids! But they're so delicate in this enviro I'm very picky how I utilize their dirt. It usually goes into seedlings. I haven't enough supply yet to put it directly in the garden. I can hardly tolerate the idea of throwing it in teh garden to have it, essentially, baked in the sun destroying those wonderful nutrients. I use it, mostly, for worm tea putting the used worm casting right back in. My worms even have a lean diet because I don't want too many bugs in the house and the reprocessed worm castings from making tea turn out to be a much finer grain very highly useful for seed-starting. They're not caky like all the others. So, now, I have like three different bins for different purposes! I think my initial thoughts of a larger compost pile would indicate a higher moisture content in the center as suggested above. At this time I just don't have the energy to turn a larger pile. My back is pretty much rotting away with degenerative disc disease. Looks like burying it might be best. That brings to mind a method I have begun utilizing in one area of the garden successfully. HUGELKULTURE It is working... still working despite absolutely NEGLECT. I wanted to see how it really did in drought conditions and BY GOLLY it actually works! Only now... right into August after so very long without rain am I considering watering it and the initial test phase section is NOT very deep suggesting that a 3' or deeper pit of Hugelkulture would actually finish the job and do the trick. Only problem: I don't have a back hoe and digging out by hand will only be possible during winter months. Yet, it is so effective that considering to dig it out by hand with a broken back is going to be absolutely worth it in the long run. How else are we to survive? I need a large plot to survive to feed my family of four PERPETUALLY and Hugelkulture stands to be THE one way to "get er done". The extreme climate: There is no more fall tree foliage!! Unbelievable. The trees are defoliating in early august to conserve their own water moisture eliminating this highly essential garden amendment. I must rake them up in the heat of July and August before they, literally, disintegrate. And, to be expected, we are losing certain varieties of trees. THANK GOD FOR PECANS TREES that love extreme heat and hate moisture on their leaves. Even they are defoliating to a degree and I might lose some if the winter precipitation of any form is diminished in any way. Anyone else with H-kulture? The Oklahoma Garden Forum welcomes visitors askign questions about plants/gardening. We're not an all inclusive sort of type and okiedawn's gardening suggestions are often the top of the google search engine. I've only recently started gardening but have learned if anyone can garden in Oklahoma they can garden anywhere (I do not fall into that category yet) but if it's a climate issue to either extreme, the experts in Oklahoma have dealt with it and always will. I don't know if Oklahoma is the ONLY Place on earth that experiences both extremes of weather temperatures, but it sure seems like it. Texas panhandle, of course, is a near example. With exception to monsoons or hurricanes, we have it all. The perpetual triple digit weather is, yet again, another matter we need deal with and we're all simply learning to deal with it. Most advanced gardeners have already switched varieties of plants to suit the new climate. Even as I type my head is spinning to the sheer insanity of it all in Oklahoma - as if Tornadoes and hail storms weren't sufficient excitement. SHEESH Ever tried to protect your 'maters from hail damage? Buy a hard hat and expect to be labeled a redneck gardener from all the makeshift coverings in your garden during inclement weather. LOL Thanks again to all. bon

Hi Jolj: This may be obvious and forgive me, but can you identify where the red ants are coming from or are they under the compost pile. I think you must identify their source, then take very aggressive action. Here in the High Mojave Desert our Vector Control District wants to be notified immediately so they can chart the little monsters movement and they also say they will give you help which may mean just a pest control sight or ? You may need to move the pile a bit to observe their behavior. Horrid, nasty little monsters. That and killer bees make me very careful to keep looking around for anything unusual. Would you be willing to set up your worms in their own condo in the basement or laundry room for now and add as you feel confident you've eliminated the RA's? Out of the blue we suddenly had two hills show up in our lawn and it was practically instantaneous, weren't there one day and were the next. I got to discover them as I was out in the backyard with the dogs after dark one evening and apparently stumbled over one of the piles. I could clearly feel the bite, ouch!, and spent the remaining evening into the morning with my foot in an ice bath to kill the pain. I also take antihistamines due to really bad allegies so it wasn't just an allergic reaction, it hurt just like a severe burn from cooking. IT HURT for many hours. That was back in 2004. The next day I went out with the gasoline jug for the lawn mower, pour gasoline down each hill. I didn't light the hills on fire as we were in summertime and the heat generated down and inside the soil I'm sure did away with them. This past summer, I found them running around my yard on one side in a garden bed. No hills this time so watched their movement to see where they were moving back and forth from. I put down the Amdro granuals and that took care of them in my yard but I will be on the look out when soil warms up and ants begin to appear on surface. I don't care what's bad for the soil, the issues about dogs or cats or kids coming in contact with red ants is non-negotiable, I will do whatever to get RID of them And I agree burning the pile is likely the best bet. Immediate attention is absolutely necessary.

joe.jr317, Well Joe, I know that "We all enjoy composting. . ." because we are all actively inputting into this composting forum. Seems the word you take issue with is "enjoying". Some people just enjoy reading about composting to ask questions, without intending to do anything about the answers they get, and some folks just enjoy learning from what they read to hopefully do something "someday", and some (those who can), enjoy attempting to put into practice what they learned - and then there are others just enjoy complaining about things that they don't think will work - without ever trying them, to find out. Their motivation to participate in this forum is really none of my business, nor is the extent to which they actually perform composting activity. If a person does compost, they are an 'expert' in the way THEY choose to do it, even it it's their first day. So the word "proper" as you define it, does not necessarily have the same meaning to someone else. It's a matter of context, and anytime you (or anybody else) makes a "general" statement, the statement should be taken in that context. Point is, nobody appointed you responsible to 'protect' folks on this forum from people who don't agree with you, regardless of what you think about their qualifications and experience levels to give advice. Yes, you're right - I'm an 'optomist' who believes in the inherent "good" of mankind - and quite apparently to me, you are a 'pessimist' (or at least a 'pragmatic'), who believes that mankind is inherently "bad" - based on what you wrote. I happen to like most people. We all act like 'jerks' at times (even you), so forgive, and get over it without expressing your frustrations publicly. I think assuming the best from folks - is a good way to be. I'd rather be like me, than be like you (based on what you wrote and the way you expressed it). Just my preference - and like my opinion, I'm welcome to it. Yours can be different - and that's OK too. I'm not 'faulting' you for not being like me - I'm just saying that it should be (to you) OK for me to be different than you without that 'bothering' you. Folks like me understand that "it takes all kinds", so you can be the way you are, and we should be allowed to take people at their word. We are all capable of asking questions and making judgements about whether to trust what somebody says...and hopefully every ADULT has learned to not simply accept "anybody's" word at face value without obtaining more information (about that person, their qualifications/experience, or about the subject) before they act on it. If they don't, they'll just have to learn "the hard way" like all the rest of us did in some things. At some point in your educational process (in any given subject), through the eyes of an 'expert' (in that subject), you didn't know 'shinola' either - although you probably thought you did. So it's OK for other folks on this forum to think that they do too. And they ARE - in the way that THEY compost. Contrary opinions can be expressed in nice ways - without 'jerking somebody's chain'. You talk about somebody being "...purposefully demeaning..."and then you (in my opinion) exhibit the same kind of behaviour that you're complaining about. I personally think (from what I've read that kimmsr [Kimm] has posted), he/she is knowledgable about the general subject of composting, and provides valid information to people about the way he/she composts - in which he/she IS the ONLY expert. It is apparent to me that he/she is not knowledgeable about the way I compost, and that's OK. Kimm should not be expected to present ideas, questions and information that is the same as I understand/accept. Different context. So different meanings ARE going to be derived. We DON'T all use the same dictionary, and sometimes we make up words. For example, every plant has only ONE scientific name - but most of them have been given a bunch of common names that 'stuck'. Using the common name is OK too, although doing so can cause confusion at first. Secondly, I don't "see" the same thing in Kimm's posts that you do. I see no justification for believing that Kimm has "social issues" - and question your qualifications to make such a demeaning statement, especially in a public forum. Not respectful. Now to express my disagreement with you about the "...sitting idly by..." issue. You should KNOW by now, that I have no problem expressing my personal opinions - so I won't take that comment personally - but then - that would mean that your comment refers to "everybody", and in that context, my question to you, is who made you "judge and jury" about what is, or is not "misinformation"? In my opinion, you need to simply take a deep breath and 'get a grip', sir. If you disagree with something somebody said, then provide the specific information you think is right - and why - just like everybody else on this forum should, and let people make up their own minds. Ask questions and give the person a chance to respond, without "ringing their bell". I present information on this forum that lots of folks may know very little about (such as compost microbe activity/cyles), so I need to be prepared to substantiate my advice when requested. Do YOU have a microscope - and know HOW to use it - and know WHAT to look for)? When I write about compost microbes, should I assume you do, and provide technical information? Or should I assume you don't, and not write jargon that you might not understand? If I assume you do, but you don't, at least you then have the words to research the information - instead of just expressing generalities and making unsupported statements. That's my reasoning for being so darned 'wordy' (guilty - I'm a writer), so in my opinion, it's really important to provide specific information on which other forum users can base their responding opinions and advice. I try to operate my composting operation on the "leading edge" of the industry, so I experiment a lot. I have to understand that some folks don't, 'cause they don't care. Not fun for them. And I have to make that OK and not get 'bent our of shape' when they express their opinions contrary to mine. SOME of the information I present (for everybody to make their own judgement) is a result of MY trial-and-error composting experience for 50+ years. Not written down, except in my notes. Should I not share my findings for someone else to try - because I haven't written a book yet? In this forum I write about composting with the Frame technique, and I'd be willing to bet that you don't know what that is, much less how to use it "properly" based on your own composting experience. So when I refer to using that technique 'properly', you can take issue - but you'd be better off to ask questions, instead of trying to instruct me in the proper use of the term as YOU define it. I build vertical-sided stand-alone (unsupported) multiple compost piles 4-5' wide, 5-7' long and up to 48" high (yes, the Frame is adjustable), every month, with ONE 8-piece, 16" high portable wood frame (a technique I learned long ago, from an old Florida fella who could not erect a compost bin in his back yard due to CC&R restrictions - and HE called it a Frame - which is why I call it that) - which produces quality (high-nutrient, high-microbe and high-humus) compost (I call it 'quality' because that's what the experts at the Soil Testing Laboratory call it based on their written analysis reports). And I'd also bet that you can't find the Frame technique in any book you can buy, even online (I haven't found one yet). Now tell me that I'm providing "misinformation" because you can't find somebody else who wrote about the Frame technique. Experience Is VALID (even if not explained very well). On the other hand, a request for proof or explanation of statements/advice is certainly valid. Regarding the Frame technique, I'll be happy to send you copies of my compost analysis reports (validated results) and post photos of the Frame in use (if somebody would tell me how to do that), as well as request letters be sent to you from the Texas AgriLife County Extension Agents who recognize me as a composting 'expert' and who sponsor the composting workshops that I teach for other Master Gardeners in three counties, about using the Frame technique (as well as several other 'bin' methods). You are as welcome as anybody else on this forum to point out what you consider 'bad advice' or 'bogus information'. My point (in the previous post) was that such can be done in a nice (respectful) manner, and you should provide the specific reasons why you think so. Giving a website address as a reference is OK, but it sometimes appears like a CYA move to justify your point of view, unless you state the specific reason(s) in the body of your message. Particularly if the person has to "wade through" a lot of web pages to locate your reference.