Because Pemberton said it was? :-)

I hadn't noticed that.
I don't know how Callisto will be for you, but I bet it would work for me.

Jeri

The way I understand it...a rose breeder can classify the rose where they want it to go...and yes, I bet Callisto will love Florida..it is a lovely rose. And the fragrance is wonderful!

Yes, Melva, a Tea/Noisette should do well here. Is yours a bush or a climber? HMF says it's 4' tall (???). Do you have pictures?

Sherry

It really does not get much larger than 4 feet..I have pictures let me see if I can find some.

My Callisto is a bush...is there a climber? The pictures are not the best, but here are 2 of them.
{{gwi:290544}}
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Thanks, Melva. I don't know what it is. I was just assuming that having a climber for both parents would result in another climber (my newbiness is showing), but HMF said 4' so I asked the question. Very interesting. How old is your bush now and how big is it? Oh, and what shape is it?

Sherry

Sherry,

Have you found a source for Callisto? Vintage only has it custom root.

No, Lucretia, this is all for fun - or future reference, I guess.

Sherry

I only have a gallon sized plant right now...the more mature one was weed eated by a man who calls himself a landscaper...Hah!
It was four feet by three...and it was had a nice shape...not sure how to describe it...and you are right, having climbers for parents it is reasonable to think the offspring would be a climber too.

He weedwacked a 4x3 rose bush? What an idiot! That's a tragedy, Melva. I guess you must have liked it since you bought another one. Hopefully for you it's a fast grower.

Sherry

Sherry, Vintage's description of hybrid musks has helped me understand this class a little bit. Comes down probably to what Jeri said. Pemberton said so. But also there is musk influence in the noisette class.

Here is a link that might be useful: hybrid musk class description

Thanks for the link, Gean. But Callisto's designation as a Hybrid Musk is just plain silly - and inaccurate.

Sherry

" But Callisto's designation as
a Hybrid Musk is just plain silly
- and inaccurate. "

*** Well, sure.

But then, 'Lady Ann Kidwell' is more of a Tea than a Polyantha. Only, when it was introduced, no one was going to buy a Tea Rose, so it was, PRESTO! A Polyantha.

Ralph Moore produced 'Mister Bluebird' from 'Old Blush' x 'Old Blush.' So, it's a China, right?
Wrong. It was int. in 1960, when no one would have bought a China. So it is a Miniature.

J&P introduced 'Love' as a Grandiflora, which it most certainly is not. Why?
Because they already had 'Honor' (A Hybrid Tea).

By introducing Love as a Grandiflora ('80) and Cherish as a Florrie ('80) they could offer "'Love', 'Honor', and 'Cherish')

Merchandising. :-)

Jeri

Yes, but not only merchandising. Garden roses are such mongrels that many of them could be placed in more than one class. The choice can be made on the basis of the appearance and behavior of the variety. If it acts like a Hybrid Musk, it IS a Hybrid Musk.

This hybridity is also the reason why two climbers can yield a shrub. Remember recessive genes? There's plenty happening in a plant's genetics that the gardener can't see, and breeders--and gardeners who read rose genealogies--get surprises all the time.

Melissa

Well, I've read that Pemberton first called his roses "hybrid teas" and that's how they were advertised in 1916. It wasn't until someone questioned the classification of Danae, Moonlight and some others as hybrid teas that Pemberton came up with the name hybrid musk, The only link with the musks is the musk relationship in the noisette parentage.

That sounds like marketing to me. But they're great roses, I think.

argh!!! This does not bode well for its hardiness in my garden, though - as Melissa mentions - genes can combine in surprising ways. Perhaps the mystery of William Allen Richardson's paternal genes will save it.

Was Pemberton only assuming Callisto was a self seedling of WAR because it wasn't a deliberate cross? Could it actually be something other than that, with some other pollen brought by bird or bee?

Though others have reported winter problems with HMs, and though Vintage has a note about hardiness to 15 F, the class has been fine for me here, in the single digits and below. If Pemberton is correct about the parentage, Callisto will likely be the exception.

As for Lady Ann Kidwell, it might have a tea look, but has nevertheless survived here, and is building size year by year. Old Blush is the rare China which is hardy here, so I will give Mr Bluebird the same chance.

Sometimes, whatever the label, you just don't know til you try it for yourself, rose murderess that I am.

"Callisto" thrives in Northern California, and has a very pretty way of arching its canes. The one in our garden was c. 4 feet tall when I moved, and visitors would remark on the strength of its fragrance. It is a very special Hybrid Musk, with a certain poise to its' frilly blooms.
I can't speak for Florida, but I think "Callisto" is one of the most darling yellow roses that looks at home when planted in a garden along with Older Roses, such as China, Teas, Noisettes, and Polyanthas.
I'd grow "Callisto" in front of a tall Noisette such as "St. Leonards", which blooms with white medium sized roses that have a slight lemony cast in the center of their blooms, and plant a small pink rose in front of Calisto, "Mrs. R.M Finch" ( a Florabunda with a prettier growth habit than the upright Florries from more recent years, it has platter shaped blooms which would echo the rounded bloom shape of "Callisto". vintagegardens.com sells these 3, most years, May the goddess Flora bless them.
Luxrosa

Luxrosa, the only way Callisto could be a very special Hybrid Musk would be if it was a Noisette called a Hybrid Musk. What do you think of putting him in front of Jaune Desprez? That's his only shot in my yard if he ever comes on the market. But then rose bushes come and go so quickly in my garden, who knows.

Jeri, LAK has beautiful flowers & color but lately I get hives every time someone mentions polyantha (i.e., multiflora). I'm experimenting with Australian 'polyanthas' though. As to categorizing, I guess it's a free country and a free rose society, so whatever, but it would make life a lot easier if categories meant something.

Melissa, you may have stepped out of my intellectual comfort zone, but I get your point. With plants expect the unexpected.

Gean, I wish all of you blessed gardeners a blissful life with your Hybrid Musks. They are truly hideous in my yard, and I will discuss it no further.

Regina, you confirm my fears about Lady Ann Kidwell - more poly than tea.

Sherry

Jeri, LAK has beautiful flowers & color but lately I get hives every time someone mentions polyantha (i.e., multiflora).

*** IMHO, LAK's more Tea than Multiflora, in every way -- no problems with our alkaline conditions at all. But of course, she was bred in the San Gabriel Valley, SoCalif.

Jeri