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Quick question re. Hydro Ban (or Kerdi)

14 years ago

I'm going to install the tub surround tile in my bathroom remodel, and have my waterproofing choice narrowed down to Hydro Ban or Kerdi.

I'm leaning towards Hydro Ban based on what I've read here and elsewhere, but I think I have a problem: The greenboard was installed directly to the studs without a vapor barrier in place. (That's what I get for not doing it myself! ;-)

Anyway, I've read that Hydro Ban must have a vapor barrier in place, but a Kerdi installation does not require it as it pretty much functions as its own barrier. Is this true?

Any and all opinions welcome...

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Comments (4)

MongoCT
14 years ago
For a non-steam shower (just a regular shower) all you need is a waterproof membrane of some sort. Being that this is a tub surround, I presume it's not a steam shower.

When installed IAW the manufacturer's installation instructions, Hydroban and Kerdi are both waterproof membranes, so as long as your jurisdiction allows these membranes to be installed over greenboard, then either will work just fine.
Joe Blowe
Original Author
14 years ago
Yes, it's just a regular shower and tub, no steam involved.

Thanks for your help! Hydro Ban it is...
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you have the look of a mastic installation (tile installed directly to the drywall/green board) If this is what he's planning, get rid of him, immediately. and it mentions several times to use unmodified thinnest. When installing porcelain you must use a latex modified thinnest or the bond will break within 30 days and I myself have witnessed this happening. That was my concern before I first used it as well. Trust me when I tell you, the fears are unfounded. As for the thinset letting go within 30 days, sorry, but I've got several installations that have been down now for a few years, and haven't let go yet. One of them (the first one I did over Ditra, which also requires unmodified) had a 400 pound Wolfe gas stove wheeled over it a week later. If the tile was going to let go, that would've been the time. That was 4 years ago. As for the Hydroguard, I've never heard of it. You might ask him who the manufacturer is, so you can look them up on line and make sure it's both waterproof AND vapor proof, and if not, make sure he's planning on using a vapor barrier.
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It makes me feel a lot better knowing someone like you thinks the system is excellent Let me put it this way-- with one exception, every shower I've installed in the last two years has been installed with the Hydroban system. The biggest plus is that if I use the proper Laticrete materials, I can offer my customers a 25 year MANUFACTURER BACKED warranty. What that means is that even though I'm (about to turn) 55, if that shower fails 20 years from now, Laticrete will back the shower system, even if they have to get someone else in there to fix it. That's how good this system is. One other thing to remember-- I've been using their products literally for decades. In that time, I've had occasion to need them to stand behind thir products. No questions asked, once it was determined that it was the product. Labor to demo, labor and materials (inclluding tile) to re-install-- all covered. That's why I stand behind these people. ALL companies have problems from time to time. No one's perfect. But I've never, from any other company, had the kind of customer service I get from them. I have no doubt they'd really stand behind this if it were needed.
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I finally finished this project and would like to share a few lessons learned, if anyone is interested: 1. Looking back, I decided to go with a deck mud shower pan instead of the preformed Laticrete one. It was pretty much a cost consideration at the time. I am a bit of a perfectionist and the biggest hangup I have with the job I did is how the shower pan turned out. I struggled getting it right and in the end, it just seems like I have too much slope in most areas and not enough in some. The preformed pan would have helped me there. Given the cost of the overall project, the extra cost for the Hydro Ban shower pan would have been nothing to even think about. 2. I spent much of my life over the last two months after work on this project and grew in appreciation for you pros who do it everyday. Not only is it a very physical job, I could never make money at it without charging crazy money. My hat's off to you folks. 3. Much appreciation is sent to the pros that give us DIYers the confidence we need to get over what would stop most. Your input is invaluable. I will attach a pic of the finished product so that Mongo can take a little credit for helping me get through this one. Thanks for the help! Jeff
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As you know, Kerdi has a spun fine poly "fleece" on it's surface. When that surface is pristine, it causes water to bead on it due to the Kerdi being pretty clean and the water having surface tension. The water beads up and doesn't really "wet" the Kerdi. It could be that your floor Kerdi, having been walked on, kneeled on, crawled upon, etc, is just a little "dirty" in certain areas so to speak. As a result, the water isn't beading up into perfect droplets. The "dirt" on the Kerdi is breaking the surface tension of the water and preventing the water from beading, thus it's wetting the surface of the membrane. Now that's what it sounds like to me, as I didn't get a chance to see your photos. Mongo
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johnfrwhipple
13 years ago
Has the tub and Green board been installed correctly? Shove on that board and see if any fasteners pop and add fasteners if needed.

Check with a long straight edge and look for humps. Hollows are easy to fix but humps prove to be problematic and slow a fine tile install.

Brush the Green board with a dry paint brush and shop vac and remove any dust. Insure all seems are taped and reinforced. You don't want any voids and Hydro Ban wants nothing more than a 1/8" gap. Give your shower the best chance by starting with a sound, void free substrate for the waterproofing. It takes no time to fill all voids and delays the waterproofing date by a day at most.

If your tub was not filled and drained 10 times back to back after installation do this now and inspect from below if possible. Camera snakes are great for this and offer huge piece of mind if access from below is not possible.

It is crazy not to test these drains before waterproofing and setting tile. This is not an option. Fill and drain that tub....
bill_vincent
13 years ago
There's a tile contractor from John Bridge's forum that used to come in here all the time named Shaughnn. He just posted the following picture to facebook. Pretty appropriate for this thread!

Here is a link that might be useful: So simple a child could do it!

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