I feel like a traitor, but in my little patch Oklahoma was not an exceptional rose in any way other then fragrance. The old red standard trio used to be Mr. Lincoln, Chrysler Imperial and Oklahoma. Mr. Lincoln was gone here for the reason you specify - straight up growth at 8 feet or more, with less disease resistance then CI. Oklahoma was the least vigorous of the 3, blooms burned in the heat, and repeat was slow. CI in my opinion suited me much the best of the 3.....Maryl

Oklahoma was my first rose and I would NEVER be without it.

That said, it's not AS bad a Mr. Lincoln about getting leggy, and you can bush it out with wise pruning, but does tend to want to grow straight and tall.

we get a LOT of rain where I am and it tends to blackspot (although I don't spray and have been able to control it by picking affected leaves). It also has a tendency to ball.

In high heat, if you plant in direct sun, blooms will burn. Although the foliage has never showen heat damage for me.

This is absolutely my favorite rose, for me those deep velvetly blooms and amazing fragrance are worth all the heartache when it preforms well... but honesty compels me to say that for me it only performs well for a month or so of every year

Mine is a cheapie bagged specimen too. It's about 6 years old now. It's never been a vigorous grower but it hangs in there through tough winters here and it blooms well in my very hot humid summers. It doesn't ball up in the humidity for me like some will. Although, in this heat stretch the blooms didn't fair very well once they were open. Crispy critters around the petal edges. It is black spot prone too.

I will agree with what everyone has said already. We have very hot and humid summers, and Oklahoma performs well regardless. As for rain... I don't know. It only rains inn Toronto in spring and fall, that means before and after rose season. My only complaint with this rose is its powdery mildew susceptibility. Beautiful perfume, lovely colour, average bloom form for an HT. It is a gangly plant. If you want a bushy rose, this is not the one for you. I have a Mr Lincoln as well. Mr Lincoln grows taller for me, and has by far a more concentrated perfume. I would prefer my Mr Lincoln to my Oklahoma if Mr Lincoln did not suffer from Blackspot issues. Oklahoma is also supposed to be prone to blackspot, but mine seems somewhat resistant. Also, my Oklahoma is a deeper red than my Mr Lincoin.

I've had a 25-year love affair with Oklahoma. I grew it in Santa Fe, then in my Gardens at 3 locations in lower South Carolina.

In all, I've had six bushes. None of the bushes has been what I'd call vigorous. not nearly as vigorous as Mr. Lincoln or Chrysler Imperial.

Oklahoma seemed happiest in my garden in Santa Fe. The blooms were enormous, 5 to 6 inches across and the color was black velvet red. No

wonder I fell in love. However the bushes did not tolerate the cold northern NM winter. Still, for those gorgeous blooms, It would be worth it
to plant a new bush every year.

Here in South Carolina, my Oklahomas survive the winter with no frost
damage. OTOH, none of the four bushes I've grown has been as vigorous
as I would like.

the Oklahoma I have now is an own-root bush from Heirloom. I grew it in
a large pot for 2 years and it did fairly well, with 3 main canes. This spring
I planted it in the ground. It seemed to be doing OK until the heat of
summer set in. Im thinking I ought to make it a shade tent before I lose
the entire bush.

Oklahoma blooms suffer in the heat and humidity of the Lowcountry, and I'm thinking the climate in New Orleans is about the same.

Still, there's no other rose quite like Oklahoma. Grow it if you love it.

Thanks for the imput everyone. Sorry for all the typos. That's what I get for posting when I should be in bed sleeping. ; )
I have had serious problems with my Deep Secret rose foliage burning in summer heat for the 4 years I've had it. I've been looking for something similarly dark and fragrant. Sounds, though, like Oklhahoma might have some of the same issues. My Papa Meilland rose foliage has stood up beautifully to all weather. It's just frustrating because it refuses to bush out and instead growly really gangly to about 7 feet. The blooms also wither in about a day here. So it's useless as garden plant but I keep it because it's a wonderful cut rose. Always produces long cutting stems, never clusters. When I cut the blooms before the buds have opened out, it will open in the vase and hold lovely form for a quite respectible length of time, in an air-conditioned room, that is. Deep Secret is short,nicely bushy, looks great in a pot. Color is terrific. It just looks fried all the time except late October to late April.
I'm definitely getting Don Juan this fall to grow on my wooden fence along my kitchen door. That might end up being the Deep Secret Substitute I'm seeking. I'm just trying to keep my eyes open for a suitable bush variety as well. I still may get another Veteran's Honor--I had one years ago. It has at least a pleasant fragrance, and one of the best florist-style bloom forms around. It just is a very ordinary straight shade of red; nothing wrong with that but not nearly as rich and impressive as some others, including Papa Meilland and also some scentless reds like Opening Night and Vino Rossi/aka Vino Rosso. That last one, incidentally, has amazingly rich red coloring with interesting shading and a sort of velvet sheen to it. Too bad it has absolutely no scent in the petals or stamens.
Beloved and Black Magic are also gorgeous but virtually scentless.
Some of the photos of Oklahoma on Helpmefind.com look terrific, so I've been curious.
Any other thoughts on any fragrant reds?

My Oklahoma has beautiful blooms, but is VERY gangly! It also has a problem with black spot (which I suspect Honey Dijon, its neighbor, may be to blame). I also have an Ink Spot, which is a Weeks rose, that is very similar,and that I tend to favor over Oklahoma.

When I did my search last year for red roses my main concern was for cutting. I settled on Vet's Honor and today with the temperature at 105 at 1:00 PM the petals on VH are still unscortched (unlike the gardener). For a first year rose in a pot I'm pretty impressed AND the fragrance is very nice to both my DH and my nose. Another tipping point in her favor... Other roses suggested to me by fellow hot weather growers were Dame De Coeur, Ace of Hearts and Alec's Red. I'd have to go over my notes from last year to see if there were any others, but all 3 of these were good enough after my initial investigation to make it to the final list. Oh yes, another one someone suggested was Kentucky Derby. As I said the fragrance thing was not an issue for me, but I know one of the growers of Ace of Hearts said that the fragrance was nice and lighty sweet. I might also mention that Olympiad (like you I like reds so have grown quite a few) here at least has a nice distinctive Tea fragrance that is apparent not to just my nose but others as well. I think many factors, such as climate play into the fragrance issue.....Maryl

Maryl, Vet's Honor is definitely a great red rose. I had it years ago and may get it again. It's definitely one of the better ones for standing up to hot weather. It isn't, however, a dark red rose. Like you, I'm pleased with its fragrance; not powerful but very nice. And I don't have a particularly discerning nose. Alec's Red I have had the past 5 years, and it is a wonderful, big fat light red bloom with instense sweet fragrance. Doesn't stand up to the heat quite as well as VH but does ok; better than Deep Secret, to be sure. Dame de Coeur I got from Chamblees and was bored by it, I'm sorry to say. It was healthy and no-fuss but had no significant scent to me, nor any shapeliness to the modestly sized blooms. It was just sort of "there." I just purchased Olympiad from Chamblee's last winter and know this one stands up to the heat very well. It's a great hot weather red, non-fading, heat tolerant, and healthy. Mine's still little, but blooms I've seen on some Olympiad plants of other local rosarians are nice and big. It's probably the reason, along with very limited garden space, that I haven't yet replaced Veteran's Honor. Eventually I will, though.
Ace of Hearts I've never grown; have only seen it in nursery listings.
When it comes to scentless or nearly scentless red roses, there are numerous fine ones to choose from: Olympiad, Kentucky Derby, Big Red, Kardinal, Vino Rosso, Black Magic, Beloved, Red Intuition, Royal William, to name a few. But fragrant reds that handle the heat, have good hybrid tea form, and respectable holding power, those are difficult to find. It's fun to keep searching, though, and hoping the coming season will give us new contenders.

I keep moving Oklahoma and it does not recover well. It does keep coming back however. It hasn't grown over 5' yet. It doesn't produce a lot of blooms, but when it does its something special:

{{gwi:216811}}

Have you considered Taboo/Barkarole? I have it and Veteran's Honor, both new this year. Taboo is the dark red you're searching for, with buds appearing black. It has a lovely scent to me, although not what I'd call strong or powerful. Blooms last indoors for me about 6 days. In the 100+ heat wave we've had for the last 3 weeks, they last about 2 days in direct sunlight. It has a much better growth habit than Vets Honor, IMO.

Got mine from Palatine this spring & it's getting huge; bushy and long, lovely stems.

I also bought Dark Night, which has a little tan & yellow in there with the dark red. It's glorious when it opens, but I haven't seen one bloom last longer than a day. Opens really fast & goes kaput by 5pm.

Taboo didn't have any blackspot issues until this past week, when we had some goofy fog and haze issues due to diurnal heat cycles and high humidity.

Mine is in quite a bit of shade, where it has gradually grown into a fairly branchy, tall plant. It doesn't have many blooms at one time, but it does bloom in shade, and with competition from tree roots. In other words conditions are pretty bad where I planted it but it is a good plant all the same. It has better bs resistance than many. I don't think there is any other red as beautiful, and it has such a delicious fragrance.

Gorgeous bloom and photo, Harry!

I didn't think of Taboo before. I did have that one and it was a nice deep red too. Unfortunately it was grafted and the good Doctor decided to take it over one year.

quite a lot of mixed messages here about Oklahoma! Nice photo, Harryshoe.
Taboo I hadn't really thought about. I remember it having disappeared from U.S. commerce. So where can you buy it? Just Palatine? I've never ordered from Canada before. Does one have to purchase more than one rose? The shipping coast estimates have so far dissuaded me from Canadian orders.
I am giving some new consideration to buying a Royal William; also difficult to find. I have spotted it at Palatine, Northland Rosarium, and Rogue Valley Roses. Anyone else with experience with Royal William/Duftzauber 84? The mentions of heat tolerance, non-bluing/non-fading red color, good bloom form, and "some" reports of fragrance are the pluses I'm considering.
Mike

I grew Royal William for a few years. Nice sturdy red, but not a dark red, and no fragrance.

I've had Oklahoma for some years now. I think it needs more heat than we get here in the cool Northwest. It only puts out a few flowers a year for me, but we rarely break out of the 70s in summer.

It does get some blackspot but not as much as I expected. It is very tall and long-stemmed, which is an advantage in a mixed bed. The flowers will burn in the heat if we get any. I don't know how it holds up to humidity as we have little of that here. I also don't know how it holds up to rain since it refuses to bloom in all but the hottest driest weather we get so its flowers have never been rained on for me. The flowers I do get are to die for, and worth the extra attention it needs compared to some of the newer varieties.

So since my conditions are so different from yours, I can't really advise you, except to repeat what you already know, that the flowers are fantastic, and while it may need more attention than some roses, it needs way less than some others.

Yeah I guess it's hard to give great advice since you are in a totally different climate, but like I said in my earlier post, despite some of the drawbacks, it has been a really hearty plant for me. Blackspot resistant, and for me it blooms a lot even in cool weather. This year we have had a record cool summer and it still has a lot of blooms. But I guess the thing I really don't like about it is, again, that the blooms don't last long. And I agree they burn easily in the sun. I like the deep red it is when the blooms are young, but I real don't like the magenta they fade to.

I got mine from Palatine & couldn't be happier. I know that for a long time, HMF said that Love & Taboo weren't shippable from Canada to the US, but after I received mine I had them update their remarks on those 2 roses.

Pickering carries it also, but they list under the other name, Barkarole. I ordered 9 roses from Palatine this spring & my shipping was $29.75, and they did a great job of packing them. They were the best bareroots I received.

I can't remember if you have to order more than one rose or not.....I'm pretty sure that was the case for Pickering, which requires at least 3, and that's why I ended up getting 2 from them that I'd rather have obtained elsewhere, but they're doing well now nonetheless.

Yes, Palatine has a 3 plant minimum. One of my personal irritations with mail order nurseries. However I did call them last spring to see if they would ship only one rose and they said (in a round about way) "maybe" but we'd have to charge an extra $10.00 for the rose. I doubt those terms would be considered binding, but if you want a rose bad enough you may be willing to pay the extra for it. I'd call them about it..... On a personal note, I've done this with other "minimum order" companies when I have really really thought I wanted what they had for sale. As luck would have it, not one of those "gotta haves" are still with me. Not because they didn't grow, but because they didn't turn out as great as I'd told myself they would be. My personal lesson learned on plants....Maryl

On an different note, I took 8 cuttings in early June which are still green and have leaves. So, I'd say it is a survivor. I don't know if they are growing roots yet, but they look good.

For comparison, the cuttings from the other 4 varieties I tried to start blackened and died.