I tried for several years Bouquet Parfait (Hybrid Musk, Lens, 1989) and it was ok in disease resistance, get BS, but not too much. In fact, better resistance then all other HMs (with the exception of Darlows Enigma, which is really healthy) that I grow or used to grow. Probably 30-50% defoilation. I gave it away because it had NO fragrance, zero, and thrips loved it in spring. Good repeat. Color is nice blush in spring (if you manage thrips) and just white in summer.
Olga

If someone has the book on Lens (published in Europe, in French or Dutch) I'd be interested in hearing how well it covers his roses.
I've looked at the book several times, but am waiting for the exchange rate to be a bit kinder to dollars.

We have grown Lens 'Walferdange' for several years, and it's a terrific, carefree rose, here.
We recently obtained 'Bukavu' from Cliff Orent's Euro-Desert list. It seems
to be very vigorous and disease-free in our climate.
Cliff's closeup of the blooms is a good representation of what I am seeing here.

We also have Lens' 'White Surprise' -- an H. bracteata Shrub of immense vigor,
with the most imposing rack of prickles I've ever had here.
Beautiful, BIG single white blooms on a disease-free plant.

Jeri

Don't be fooled into thinking these are 'Hybrid Musks' a la Pemberton. There is almost no trace of 'musk rose' in the English shrubs, whereas these are what we would call 'Musk Hybrids' - musk ramblers of enormous vigour.

The term 'Hybrid Musk' is yet another casualty of the ARS classification system: perhaps Pemberton's roses should return to the name 'Pembertons', or, like Austin's, they should just be thrown in the 'Modern Shrub' pile?

Absolutely worthwhile and beautiful, given the space they deserve - either to build as huge, free-standing shrubs or to ramble through trees. For instance, 'Dentelle de Malines' covers a Christmas tree in my garden.

Best wishes
Jon

Jeri, Does White Surprise repeat its bloom? The helpmefind entry did not say.

Oh, yes. It does repeat, tho not heavily.
It's a lovely plant in the garden, I think. Foliage is attractive,
and those fuzzy buds are a bonus.

One thing, it's huge.
We have it in entirely the wrong place.
It should be planted where you don't have to be "intimate" with it.

Jeri

Wow. I've got some great responses here.

Olga, although it's not a Lens rose, have you tried Daybreak? For me it's even more disease resistant than Darlow's Enigma.

Jeri, it's interesting to hear how roses do in your climate...so different from mine. I'm wondering which roses would do well in both the climates? Or, if there is a type of rose better suited for West Coast and one for East Coast...anyhow..thanks for that info.

Jon, your words are wonderful. I think I was eager to expand my "Pemberton" hybrid musk collection by adding some Lens hybrid musks...I'm glad I posted this. I guess it would be like comparing apples to oranges.

Well, I hope my Lens hybrid musks do okay for me.

Robert

Robert -- Though they may mature more or less quickly, I think many roses
may do well in both environments.
Much of what does well for me works well for the Florida folks, and for Gean in AL.
The "sticking point" may be blackspot.

I ought to throw in here that one of the finest Hybrid Musks we grow is
'Bishop Darlington.'
Many of the Pembertons seem unhappy here, but 'Bishop Darlington' --
half Pemberton, you might say -- is absolutely wonderful for us.
Perhaps the difference with the good Bishop is that he also descends from
'William Allen Richardson.'

Jeri

Louis Lens had as long a history breeding roses as Ralph Moore. Like Mr. Moore, in his later years Lens went far afield hybridizing different species roses. He used a number of different regional varieties of Rosa multiflora to create some hybrids. They are a very diverse group. While some are classed by Hybrid Musks, the foliage tells you at the outset that many are reblooming Hybrid Multifloras. Others are even more complicated hybrids, such as Tapis Volant, a complicated cross of Rosa wichurana, Rosa multiflora and Ballerina.

I grow as many of the Lens hybrid multifloras as I can (which is a fraction of those I want). Jon is right: they aren't like Pemberton "Musks" but then even that is a very diverse group of roses itself whose parentage is not always clear.

I have the following of the type you might consider. A good number having the damning classification of "Shrub" but most are actually complex species or near species hybrids.

Bouquet Parfait
Bukavu - definitely in the hybrid musk mold
Dentelle de Malines - a big once-blooming hybrid multiflora
Focus
Gravin Michel d'Ursel
Jacqueline Humery
Plaisanterie - a wide Lambertiana cross with Mutabilis
Robe de Soie
Rosalita
Rosy Purple
Sibelius
Tapis Volant
Violet Hood - interesting brown-tinted foliage that some find disturbing. My has been blooming all summer long.

A number came from Hortico. I have some reservations about the identifications, some of which is my fault due to lost labels. It's not clear my Violet Hood is different from Rosy Purple, or that Rosalita is different from Jacqueline Humery. I don't know if my Robe de Soie is different from what was sold to me as Tapis Volant. The plants are still growing out. Bouquet Parfait, Bukavu, Dentielle de Malines, Focus, Plaisanterie and Sibelius are true to type. And whatever I have as Tapis Volant/Robe de Soie is an outstanding trailing landscape plant, falling off a wall and enjoying a very long spring bloom period. If I deadheaded, it would probably rebloom better.

I have only one Lens rose that ever suffers from leaf spot: Belgian Lace. It resembles a Hybrid Spinosissima in habit but could be a much more complicated hybrid, such as Rosa omeiensis. It is really unusual, more a curiosity than a good rose here. The canes sunburn in the California sun but it resents pruning.

Berndoodle,

Thanks so much for these suggestions. I do hope someone from this climate will chime in on how they will grow no spray here. So far, for me, Plaisenterie and Gravin are both doing well. They don't seem to be troubled by blackspot. I've got Plaesenterie in full baking sun and Gravin in morning sun and dappled afternoon shade. I had considered Violet Hood several times...hmmm

You say you grow as many of the Lens hybrid multifloras as you can...what makes them special to you?

I'm growing as many of the Pemberton musks as I can.. For me, they are disease resistant, fragrant, and very graceful.

Robert

Robert,
I grow Sweet Bouquet, aka Focus. From a band 4 years ago, it has vigorously grown into a large shrub. Following a spectacular June flush it continues blooming throughout the summer. My ability to sniff roses is limited, but I do detect fragrance.

{{gwi:231141}}

Robert, I love the generous nature of a massive spring flush - - large, vigorous, graceful roses clothed top to bottom with bloom. There is no class of roses that out-performs the hybrid multiflora in this, although polyanthas, also derived from multiflora, are a match but on dwarf plants. As you may know, the Pemberton musks are complicated hybrids of hybrid multifloras.

We can recognize a rose with multifora in its background on sight - - modern examples, regardless of horticultural class, are Francoise Drion, Sally Holmes, Marjorie Fair, Lavender Dream, Jeri Jennings, Wilderode.

For other rose growers, it's all about the high centered bloom or scent or cutting. For me, it's the massive display in the spring flush. When I can photograph a panorama of the garden, with mound after mound blanketed with roses, I am in heaven. It helps that they love my climate, naturalize and reseed here freely and grow without any serious care.

We have no blackspot to mention, btw. As has been pointed out here with great eloquence, my recommendation of what grows well in Marin and Sonoma Counties means nothing.

--
Cass

Cass and Harry,

Thanks. I will definitely consider some of these. I am not really interested in high centered blooms. I like the sprawing garlands of bloom that surround me too.

Robert

This is a very interesting thread (thanks, Robert!). I posted a similar question some time ago but got less response than I see here, as I recall; perhaps the forumers have gotten busy growing the Lens roses since then. One of the values of the current discussion is that it's forcing me to rethink the term 'Hybrid Musk', a work which ought to clarify my understanding of certain rose bloodlines.

I too love the Pemberton Hybrid Musks (as I will continue to call them here), in part because they're fragrant. I don't know whether the Lens roses would grow well in my conditions; setting that question aside, would they be desirable roses for a gardener who loves scent? I'm very ready to admire fine foliage and graceful form and good health such as the Pemberton roses show, and their fragrance is their crowning glory. I have room for large roses. I don't require a lot of rebloom and the flowers don't have to be large, though generosity of bloom is good. Are the Lens roses distinctive enough, and fragrant enough, to be worth my growing them?

Thanks,

Melissa

would they be desirable roses for a gardener who loves scent?

*** Remembering that noses vary wildly, EYE find the ones I know richly fragrant.
But then, they are in that musk-scent-range, which I can detect.

Jeri

Melissa, to be frank, I can't say that most of my Lens roses are fragrant. That's not an issue for me: I plant a very fragrant rose near one that isn't. I learned that I don't need every rose to be fragrant. One will smell up an area 15 x 15.

Hi Robert,

I purchased the Len's rose Violet Hood from Randy last fall and it seemed to settle in quite nicely. In fact, it stayed almost evergreen over the mild winter. Once the weather warmed it grew beautifully, I loved the color of the foliage and it was covered with small buds. Then almost overnight it was completely engulfed with Rust. As this is a condition I had never seen in my garden, I was not sure what to do with it (and I was so busy with the rest of my garden I ignored it). Within a week, it was completely defoliated. It stayed bald for about a month and is now showing promise to look decent again. This is the only Len's HM I have, but Bukavu is high on my want list.

BTW the White Cap cuttings I got from your garden last spring have bloomed and I love this rose. Thank you so very much for sharing.

Kathy

PS Does anyone have any experience with rust elimination using the Cornell Formula? I am not adverse to spraying, as long as it is organic.

Kathy,

The more I grow White Cap, the more I LOVE this rose. There is absolutely nothing I dislike about this rose..NOTHING. Regarding the rust...I have no information I can share regarding chemicals. I am wondering, however, whether my Deuil de Paul Fontaine gets rust. It does, after its first flush, get some hideous crud. No other rose looks like it. But, now, all its new foliage is clean and he's reblooming...well, he was until I dug him up and relocated him this week in my garden overhaul. I would love a rooted cutting of Violet Hood (hint hint). I think I'm having some success rooting cuttings, so let me know what you want me to root for you. I do have some Renee Danielle's ready if you want one.

Melissa, I think we must be kindred spirits in gardening. I always enjoy reading your responses.

Jeri, I did want to mention that my little "Jeri Jennings" band has her first bloom. I'm sure I'm going to love this rose! I've got her next to Danae, and I think the two are similar enough, yet different enough to compliment each other well.

I'm enjoying this thread.

Robert

That should be pretty Robert.
The moreso because JJ itself gives you a range of shades of yellow.
Oh, and I do love the fragrance.

Jeri

Hi Robert,

Hopefully by fall Violet Hood will be recovered enough to take cuttings. It does not have the same growth habit as the other HM in my garden, it grows very slowly. I believe Connie has mentioned having another gathering at her place this fall, we can share cuttings then (if not before). I NEED to come see all the changes you have made in your already breathtakingly beautiful garden.

My Jeri Jennings has been nekkid as a jay bird nearly all summer, but she has a spray of exquisite, fragrant flowers that I love. She is a keeper, for sure. I went for contrast instead of similarity - Wild Blue Yonder (that I got from Connie last year, thanks), and Basye's Blueberry (I got after Randy's enabling, thanks).

The Cornell Formula is an "organic" spray. I read it in the FAQ of the Organic Rose Gardening forum when I first started growing roses and have been using it (sporadically) since. It does not completely eliminate BS, but it seems to strengthen the plant's ability to recover from a case of fungus.

Kathy

Here is a link that might be useful: What is an organic disease control program that has been scientifically tested?