mariannese -- I think it is just possible that Loubert could have obtained it from Joyce Demits. I'm doubtful, though. For one thing, she had closed her nursery prior to the HRF convention held in El Cerrito in 2005.

Wonderful David! Good luck. Best to Carole (and you, too!)

I lopped all the top growth off mine, leaving several pale and etiolated basal canes...although these have turned green and are leafing up nicely so I have no doubt that this rose has both tenacity and vigour and will, I hope, settle down well along the sheltered southern edge of our woodland. I have always considered the musk to be at home in a montane environment, so I have high hopes that the dappled sun and fertile soil will prove to be an amenable habitat for this elusive rose.

Marlena, I am going to ask if I can just send euros in a wad of cash - old-fashioned stylee.

I have had a nightmare week, culminating in the destruction of my most essential woodland tool - our hugely expensive brushcutter (over 1K dollars) , by an absolute buffoon who not only didn't have a clue what they were doing, they then invalidated our warranty by fiddling around, taking it apart! Took us months of saving, so having a lovely musk rose is a consolation.

Marlena, I hope mine will be like yours, it can take the winter here. We have a lot of sub zero days (may be 2-3 weeks).

I have 2 Darlow's Enigma in my garden, they're pretty much cane hardy here. SGM looks like DE, but it's more fragrant, right? :-)

I have not grown D.E., so I cannot say. But I do know that D.E. is recommended as being more cold-hardy than SGMC.

What, exactly, is huge, Mariannese?Jeri? Never really thinking I would buy this rose, I have done precious little research and have certainly never actually seen one...but having a major fondness for gigantic white cluster-flowered roses, what's not to like, right? Except I have been bitten by the enormo-rose infection once too often - certain parts of the allotment are effectively impassable and forbidden owing to colossal landgrabs by r.helenae, r.californica, r.moyesii, Scharlachglut and the afore-mentioned DE - to mention a few which are growing far beyond their catalogue listings -Scharlachglut is 6m and is still not fully grown, flinging canes across my path and meeting up in a prickly ecstatic reunion with my neighbour's savage blackberry...while I can now only enter my shed on hands and knees. So a heads up would be appreciated, bearing in mind, I have poplars to grow up, I am not (yet) quivering.

Paul Barden says of "Darlow's Enigma": This is a free-standing specimen of Darlow's Enigma, grown in full sun.
Approximately 8 years old, it currently stands 10 feet tall and 12 feet
across. It received no care other than watering during the driest part
of the Summer. It does not have any support: it is fully capable of
being self-supporting when grown in full sun."
See his photo on HMF at:
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.165204

As for "Secret Garden Musk Climber, see:

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.59800 (Santa Clara University Fence) and My two plants:

This is a large metal arbor, flanked by two tall metal trellises. These two plants will get a firm pruning, this year. It's time.

Is Queen of the Musks related to Secret Garden Musk, Darlow's Enigma? Palatine has it listed as cold hardy. It pretty much looks the same as Secret Garden Musk, Darlow's Enigma.......I am just wondering.......

https://palatineroses.com/rose/queen-of-the-musks

Darlow's Enigma has a good dose of multiflora in it. Secret Garden doesn't show anything other than Moschata. The definite parentage is not known for either. The best we can do is base our guesses on performance and appearance.

Thanks Kim! I think I will order one from Palatine, want to find out if it repeats faster than the other 2.

"Secret Garden Musk Climber" is a truly continuous-blooming rose.
OTOH, it does not appear to be cold hardy -- probably, in part, for just that reason.

What about Betty Sherriff (rambler)? It looks like SGMC, and it has very strong fragrance too.

Jeri and Kim, would you please help me out, is this La France? Sorry for being off topic Jeri. I thought you might check this thread.......

I purchased this La France back in June, now it has its 1st bloom, it doesn't look like La france, it has no fragrance, and it only has about 30 petals, not 60 petals as HMF mentioned. Would you please let me know if the nursery sent me a wrong rose?

The form, petal texture and coloring of the flower in the photo do not look "La France" to me. It's possible the scent is off due to weather, age of flower or condition of sinuses, but if scent can't be detected under better conditions, that should be the final nail in its coffin. Good luck!

Thanks Kim. I will contact ARE and hope I can get a real La France.

You're welcome. What does the foliage look like?

Jerri/Kim, does SGMC set hips, lots or not ?

Once mature, large and "happy", it can set hips. Many are empty. Most have one seed, some have a few. The very few selfs which have germinated for me have been weak, small and terribly mildewy. Use its pollen on something worthwhile and it can produce some striking results. Peter Harris examined the pollen for me and proclaimed it to have very few cells and even fewer fertile cells, but it has produced two very nice semi climbers for me. IHTXLB X Secret Garden..

Wow, Kim. That's delectable.

Thanks Kim, I like these two, from what I can see the foliage is good and glossy

Kim, it looks like it got the best of all of the parents!

Clay Jennings says he wants two of them. :-)

Looks just like SGMC but all tarted up.

It's like when people say: "I'd like to have that rose, but I want it in pink."

Exactly, Jeri.

More OT: Dang it, Kim, I'm running out of room for your roses, but I WILL have April Mooncrest X Secret Garden if I have to drive to CA! lol. By the way, in spite of trying to force growth I just HAD to let Porcelain Rose set one bud; I'm in love, lol.

John

When should I expect you, John? LOL! Thank you. I'm pleased with the first results using Secret Garden pollen. I am eager to see what might germinate from the many Miss Lowe X Secret Garden hips ripening. Of course, Jeri. Any time. Just let me know when Clay is ready for cuttings and they're his. I'm glad you're enjoying Porcelain Rose, John. Thank you!

...I fully expect this to be despatched to Bierkreek....immediately..... I shall find a space...

Kim -- I will tell him that he can have it if he can start it. That may motivate him. I want to get things going anyhow. This year, we have some roses that need to be cut back to get rid of sun-stressed wood, so it's a good time to make cuttings.

I have been waiting to hear from Bierkreek, Marlorena. Supposedly, they were to be budding in July... but I never heard they were ready and I doubt mid September is a good time for them to be accomplishing that task.

Finally, I see life.... for the last few weeks I was concerned it was dying on me, but we've been having the most lovely warm weather, and in my greenhouse where I keep the rose - thinking it might recover better there, it's been mid 80's nearly every day... hopefully, I'll have a rose to plant out next Spring...

...lots of vigour...

That makes me smile.

Marlorena, Very happy to see yours. Here are my 2 SGMC, they landed in my "ice hole" garden on Aug 7th, they grow really fast.......

..way ahead of mine Summers..... but to be fair, mine suffered quite a bit, got dieback and lost most of its foliage.... it looked more like yours when it arrived... fingers crossed....

...you have what looks like a lush garden going on there in the background, and a sheltered home for your pots.... It would be good to know when you intend to plant yours in the garden....?? as your winters should be colder than mine...... zone wise, I don't think I could handle much less than an 8......

..thanks Jeri....

summersrhythm, looking at the rose you were sent as La France, in my opinion it really is La France, keeping in mind that the first flower will look atypical, and if it's hot there may be more atypical ones before you get the genuine look of La France. The fragrance should have definite citrus overtones. Have you returned it yet?

Mine was also looking terribly fragile (not helped by kicking the pot over) - moved into greenhouse as well. Finally picking up with fresh foliage - think I am over the worrying near death stage and now it just has to survive my none too tender mercies over the winter. Probably attend to this one with a bit more care than usual. Awaiting a few enormo-roses - Kiftsgate, Cedric Morris and a couple I have forgotten already...and have a nice collection of hardwood cuttings to dig up this autumn too - a couple of ayreshires, Goldfinch, helenae, californica and various Lens hybrid musks - all quite thrilling.

Thanks Marlorena. You're so lucky to have a greenhouse, I wish I have one. I don't think I am going to plant them in the garden since it's so cold here(SGMC is rated for zone 7), I will keep them in pots and grow them into fountain like rose trees, I am also growing an Annie into a fountain rose tree in a pot too. I will keep them in the unheated basement for this coming winter (under growing light)....then will go from there. :-) I might be able to wrap them around in blankets and store them in the garage during their 2nd winter......but there is no room in the garage, my 25 potted rose trees and a couple of potted roses will be stored in there along with 8 bikes and 1 car......thinking about build some tall shelves go above the motorcycle/scooters, so I can store potted roses there next winter. I also grow a few kinds of jasmines for their wonderful fragrance, so during the winter months they're all in the basement too, except one monster bridal jasmine stays in one spot forever, it can't be moved, see for yourself. :-) .......and I have some orchids too......well, I shall say I'm living in a jungle. :-) Cheers

Ingrid, They sent me another one to give it a try last week since I was so disappointed at the 1st one. I am keeping this one in pot, hoping it can bloom like Sara's before the winter (4 more weeks left). :-)

Summers....that Jasmine looks a house eater.... astonishing...

Summers, if that jasmine is Stephanotis, you really are a marvel! Mine is outdoors, twining its way through an Hibiscus, but they are against a north facing brick wall; even so, I was told they probably wouldn't survive. That was 20 years ago, but I don't think I would have been brave enough to grow them in your zone.

Melodye

Thanks! :-) Yes Marlorena, a house eater indeed. :-) It's a Stephanotis, we also call it Bridal Jasmine here. I am glad you also have one Melodye. Mine is about 3-4 years old. I walked in a nursery one day looking for a night blooming jasmine, then I saw this huge bridal jasmine in a pot with a 6' tall trellis, looked wild reaching to the celling, it made me smile.......also have 3 Grand Duke of Tuecany jasmine trees, flowers look like mini roses, very fragrant; and star Jasmine, Arabian Jasmine......have killed 3 orange jasmine trees plus 1 plant, will see if I can find another one.......

Melodye, do you have a photo of yours? :-)

Sorry Jeri, went off the topic.......how did I run from SGMC to jasmine? :-)

Fragrance? :-)

Stephanotis has an intense scent, Jeri, as heavy as tuberose and gardenia.

I don't want to hijack either, but I did want to tell summersrhythm that years ago I also bought La France from ARE, and was sure it was not the real thing. I had previously grown La France from Uncommonrose and it was everything described. The one from ARE was like this one, scentless and not quite right in looks.

La France has a STRONG fragrance of lemon and damask. And it often opens in a very distinctive way: the outer row of petals comes down first, leaving a sort of ball of petals in the center, showing the darker reverse.

I don't mean to disparage ARE. I have bought many roses from them since then, but what they're selling as La France may not be correct.

I suspect I would have problems with it. I can't tolerate Gardenia, or night-blooming jasmine.

Thanks Bellegallica for letting me know. There are some different looks of La France on HMF, how can one rose has so many different faces....... :-)

Jeri, Bridal Jasmine has very strong fragrance. I know people who has asthma can't take it. It smells like someone dumped a bottle of perfume.........

Yeah. I've been in a situation where I was surrounded by it, and required medical attention. :-)

Lol. Jeri, you might like the fragrance from a Ylang Ylang tree. :-) It's the mother of Chanel no. 5 perfume. I am growing 2 of them in pots, they should bloom in 3 years. there're a lot of them in CA. :-)

You can experience the same bronchial issues from a huge wisteria in full flower. I get it from acres of rosemary, eucalyptus (particularly dried material) and when the awful things flower, which is why I hate their stench.

I think I will avoid most of those delights. :-) Wisteria doesn't bother me, but Eucalypts sometimes do. Gardenias do, and OMG -- CLEVELANDIA SAGE! Beautiful but I need to not get too close!