My backyard roses look equally vital and healthy but they are! attacked by thripes on occasion

*** Look, first you need to not have unreasonable expectations.
Whether you are spraying with every toxin known to mankind, or barring chemicals from your garden, you WILL from time to time have some insect pests show up, or a disease outbreak occur.
It's LIFE. Stuff happens.

You need to decide what you can tolerate in the way of imperfections, because you are going to have some.

I can bear to see a few of my roses show signs of rust on their oldest foliage -- because I can remove those leaves without harming the plant. Zip! No rust!
I cannot live with a rose that covers new leaves with rust as soon as they open.
I can live with the sudden appearance of a colony of aphids, because 1. I can wash or brush many of them off and 2. I know the bushtits will show up soon and clean off the big roses I can't reach up to.

As long as you are dealing with living things, you will not achieve perfection.
Find your comfort zone, and relax.
Really. :-)

Jeri

I don't actually think that a person such as myself that uses fungicide would qualify as organic. But the fungicide stops the blackspot or powdery mildew and do not harm to any insect, bird or wildlife that visits the gardens.

I am confused about the gladiola problems. I grow glads and they never seem to have any problems. They don't overwinter here so don't see how they can come back in zone five.

As to roses and attracting wildlife the only thing roses seem to attract are some bumblebees on the single flowered ones. The wildlife is attracted here by other planting in the gardens including lots of butterfly attracting flowers and shrubs that produce fruits for both summer and winter to feed and attract the backyard songbirds.

Hi, Newyorkrita! so any flowering fruit shrubs that are your personal favorites? and what are the bumblebee,butterfly attracting flowers that won't compete with roses when I plant them nearby? Any names one can suggest?

I just heard on this forum that gladiolus are thripes magnets so I assumed that because only my backyard roses seem to battle with thripes and not my front yard that the gladiolus was probably to blame...?

Jerijen, hehe! yes, I can definitely live with quite a few holes but a sudden infestation does drive me beserk... but the main intent of the post is to try to have a good balance in my garden, with suggested plantings that would complement a rose garden...

I don't now what you mean won't compete with roses? Compete how? Roses can go in a bed by themselves or they can be in a mixed perenial beds. Roses look especially great with lily bulbs. Many people prefer to plant roses in back and daylilies in front. Or a combination of a hundred other things. After all each garden is different.

May I suggest you try the Butterfly Gardening Forum and the Hummingbird gardening forum for many great ideas on how to how to attract both of them.

many plants have invasive types of roots and will compete with roses (overcrowd them) for nutrients... So that is my main concern... just was wondering which has been a successful combination for those with roses...yeah, was trying to shortcut the search since not all butterfly people grow roses within that same garden lot for example and don't have to worry about invasive roots...

Ideally, you want to encourage your roses to put their roots down deep, rather than spreading.
Companion plants should not interfere with that. In fact, they may help to keep soil around the plant cool.
You should probably avoid planting a willow tree next to your roses, but other than that, there's no problem.
We're on the West Coast, in an increasingly dry environment, tho we are near the sea. We're finding the various salvias to be attractive companions.
You only have to be sure that you are aware of the spatial and water requirements of both companions and roses.
We enjoy tall bearded irises in our garden, and many of those repeat. We don't cut them back, so their foliage is a nice counterpoint to roses.
Roses and other plants don't compete for the attention of birds and bees. They're good partners.

Jeri

I just blast the aphids with water from a hose. I'm not sure that any companion plants will necessarily repel bugs, but I know nepeta (catmint) will attract bumble bees and hummingbirds.

{{gwi:295650}}

Well..I guess I wouldn't want any insects to stay in your neighborhood for long..they will die. If I were you..I would print out information that describes how bad all these chemicals are for pets and insects..and make a little note that asks neighbors to rething all the poison they are using.

I am in my second year in this home..We have hummingbird bird feeders, a bird bath that is refreshed at least once a day. I am squishing the aphids myself.

Well, I have a shrub border that would not be a great place for roses but other than that they do fine. I can't think of any common garden perenials with roots that would bother the roses.

Some favorite hummingbird plants very near roses in my garden are vining honeysuckles and Hummingbird mints. Many Salvias are great choices.

Butterfly bush, Mexican sunflower, purple coneflower, common zinnias all attract butterflies. I have milkweed (for Monarchs) planted next to a bunch of my roses.

Kristin- Thats a lovely picture. The contrast between the blue and the pink is wonderful.

serenasyh, I have an organic rose garden of mostly OGRs in central Florida in its third spring. Yesterday I saw my first bumble bee on a Duchesse de Brabant bloom. Today I saw two Mockingbirds mingling in my Climbing Maman Cochet, and yesterday a Cardinal was hanging around Mrs B R Cant. When I saw the Bumble Bee, I said "Thank you, Lord, that I didn't use imidicloprid." It really was a touching moment. (They're quite large, aren't they?)

Today - June 3 - I noticed that DdB is finally producing normal flowers. For two months thrips have ruined her - and other roses. I feel like the folks up north who are just starting their spring flush. Also, today, I saw a rather large (1+ inch) black angular bug that was really ugly with long legs sitting on a Rosette Delizy bud. I ran for my latex-coated glove and grabbed and smushed it. He leaked white stuff. I'm mellower but not suicidal. Hopefully, he wasn't a good predator bug. I've seen what I think are chafers, and I have grubs that evolve into black beetles that bury their heads in flowers and ruin them. If I treat the grubs, I'm sure I will kill the earthworms. I decided today that if you plant roses, "they" will come. Lot's of things love roses. I just hope there are at least an equal number of things that love the things that love roses. I'm learning that with roses you roll with the punches. I'm rationalizing that blackspot is an indicator of new growth - at least on my Teas, Chinas, and Hybrid Musks - and I'm living with it. Though my plants may also be in need of nitrogen in the midst of their growth spurt. This year seeing a bush turn yellow hasn't caused panic. It may cause me to reach for the shovel in a few months, but I'm cool about it. I'm just surprised by the many divergent assaults on my roses. Nature is not kind.

I would simply say feed and water the soil well, grow what grows well in your garden, and watch the show. In other words, I think eventually it will balance itself out.

Sherry

P.S. That's good to know, Jeri, about companions keeping the soil cool. I was kinda worried that my daylilies were crowding Mme Caroline Testout.

I have bee baum, honeysuckle vines, a honey suckle bush, butterfly bushes, a pond with running water and a small water feature next to my kitchen window with running water. Running water attracts the birds and butterflies. We feed the birds including hummimg birds.
I've learned to completely iqnore insect damage, even that from Japanese beetles.
A lady who stopped to admire my roses today saw Double Delight in bloom and sniffed the frangrance. She went nuts, especially after I cut the bloom and gave it to her in a vase. I noticed a few insect holes in the leaves but she didn't and cars driving past don't notice them either. I've never had anyone comment about insect damage on my roses. I figure if it doesn't bother them, why should it bother me?
I have bees, butterflies and lots of bugs.I also have about every type of bird common in this area and a few not so common.
It's a mind set. If you don't have insecticides in your cabinet you can't spray them.
It's important to realize that to get predatory insects and insect eating birds, they must have something to eat. That means you will have some damage before the good guys show up to feast.
I also have large thick shrubs, evergreens, and fir trees that make ideal nesting and hiding places. These have the sounds of young nestlings coming from them from spring through mid summer. These baby birds eat insects the parents catch for them. Encouraging bird nests helps keep the bugs down.
The large shrubs and fir trees provide hiding places for the birds when hawks appear.
I provide no companion plants for the roses to attract damaging insects away from my roses. All have in my rose beds are roses.
After seven years of practicing no spray rose growing, I have a very balanced environment. The good bugs lay their eggs here so I'm guaranteed they'll return each year. I bet if I tagged the birds I'd find many returning each spring. When mosquitoes get bad I wear insect repellant instead of spraying for them.
I would spray for rabbits if someone developed a product that worked.
In mid May, I was getting a severe infestation of aphids in my greenhouse. I placed the infested plants outside and the next day there were no more aphids on them, just a lot of fat birds and predatory insects.

It is important to have a habitat, so I let quite a bit of the grounds revert to nature. aphids do show up, but in small numbers, because the predators keep eating them. there are even a few mammals, such as rodents that churn the soil, and stir up the compost heap as they search for bugs and worms to feed on. I don't have to prune the roses either, because there is a rabbit that comes around and feeds on the canes in the winter. In the summer there is plenty of other things to eat so the rabbit doesn't eat the rose canes at that time.
The heavy organic mulch also is a habitat for the microbiological community, and for worms and insects. the microbes feed on fungal spores, so this keep blackspot from happening. it is very important to train your neighbours, so they know that this is a biological project you are doing, and you are entitled to do this, under the charter of rights and freedoms (your constitutional right).

You guys are so enlightened. Sherry..I have bumblebees..I just love them..and they are quite gentle. Karl, I hope I can see your garden sometime

I wonder how important it is to have a "balanced" garden for organic care? I personally have felt that the soil is more important than what you plant. Feed the soil and let it feed the plants.

I like to put in plants that attract beneficials, but generally don't worry too much about planting for "balance".

Just my 2 cents.

Barbara

thanks so much for your thoughts everyone! Karl I looked up your bee baum and I love the violet pinks I'm investigating right now whether I can plant them in a corner 3 feet away from the roses... do they have very thick roots, that may conflict with rose roots? ...I would loooooove to be a neighbor to your garden--sigh! sounds like heaven with all the bumblebees and hummingbirds... It's been over 22 years since I've seen bumblebees, my very favorite of all insects. How I miss them...The next favorites are the brilliant red/true ladybug, not duller-winged version...and the beautiful tiny damselfly (looks like a brilliant blue mini dragonfly) I looked up honeysuckle vine but read several warnings about it being invasive, will clematis as a vine attract any butterflies? Has anyone seen butterflies congregate near them? Kristin_flowr, thanks to your pics, I will definitely be getting that catmint...That picture is absolutely lovely!

and I happen to bump into this...a Argyranthemum ' Double Pink' does this indeed attract butterflies? has anyone grown this? Stems and leaves seem thin enough not to seem an invasive type but I'm not altogether sure and want to be sure that they can be companion to roses....

P.S. I do want hawks to eat the bunny rabbits LOL! those nasty bunnies will destroy more leaves and stems than any insect ever could! I once saw a cute baby hawk but it was being pelted and attacked by these nasty blackbird/crows that keep haunting the neighborhood... All we get are those kinds of birds and the occasional robin...Sparrows believe it or not, are not that common...so something definitely very wrong where I live...I haven't seen any cardinals ever! only if I go to my parents' "jungle neighborhood" as opposed to my pristine cookie cutter neighborhood... I only see cardinals where they live...

I am thinking there must! be some pretty flowering fruited shrubs that can attract birds...any ideas anyone?

Shrubs whose fruit attracts backyard songbirds-
For Summer fruit-
Serviceberry (must have bird attractor)
Blueberry
Gray Dogwood
Arrowood Viburnum
Elderberry

Fruit which is eaten in Winter-
Winterberry (must have bird attractor)
Mountain Ash
Very small fruited crabapples

But birds need not only food but cover and nesting spots. If you live in an area with no or very few shrubs and no trees, its going to be quite an undertaking to make your yard so attractive to them that they find you. Like being an oasis in the middle of the desert.

Butterfly bushes are a must have that attract both butterflies and hummingbirds.

Bee Baum can be a little invasive. A few plants purchased two years ago now take up a 10 x 20 feet area. They are not deep rooted and pull up easily. At least mine do.

Anybody who ever gets to the Chicago area is welcome to stop by. I'm two hours south and east of Chicago in Indiana and just a few miles east of I-65.

Serena, I think you may be unduly worrying about competing roots. Right off the top of my head, the only competing roots I can think of that would not be desireable around a rose are tree roots.

I plant just about any kind of perennial, annual, bulb, etc., I want in the same beds as my roses. No root competition problems at all. However, the one thing I try to be careful about is to leave air-flow space around my roses--which means check how wide the companion perennial is going to be at maturity so that it doesn't begin taking over the rose's space. That air-flow space has nothing to do with root competition--it is a disease-control consideration. Uncrowded roses are less likely to develop blackspot problems, for instance.

Kate

I have a great number of potted roses this year, and as usual, I had a terrible ant problem. Ants can kill potted plants, they've done it to me before. Naturally, where there are ants, there are aphids....lots of them. I hosed my plants down at least once a day to knock the aphids off, and some ladybugs came to feast, but the ants were still there. I think they like the organic fertilizers I use, as well as the moisture from watering the pots. I was about to tear my hair out. Well along came the lizards. Hundreds of little lizards. I now have hardly any ants around, and the lizards that are still hanging around have become obese.

If you can refrain from using chemicals, the balance will appear. I also do not kill insects I see on a plant, unless I know for sure it is a bad one and/or unless I see it doing damage. Nine times out of ten, those really ugly bugs are beneficial insects. I bought a Florida bug chart, and some books, and I always refer to them before killing bugs. You may have some books available for your area that you can refer to.

Thrips are always going to be obnoxious, no matter what. There really isn't a good control for them, chemical or otherwise. You just have to wait them out.

Keep in mind that it can take two to three years for a balance to re-establish itself. The good bugs don't recover as quickly as the bad ones once they are wiped out. The wait is worth it, though not easy at times.

There are some rose growers in my neighborhood that complained to me last year that their roses were looking awful and that they had a terrible insect problem despite spraying every week. They asked if I had a problem. I did not, but I don't spray. I couldn't get through to them that it was all the chemicals that had caused their problems in the first place.

Sandy

serenasyh, I sympathize with you. I am relatively new to roses, and wish to do so non-spray and organically as is practical. I am really struggling sometimes, because rose slugs have defoliated a couple plants, almost completely! That is definitely damage you would see from the road.
:o( I am trying to hold my ground, and hope that soon it will get better. It makes it all worth while when I see tree frogs and toads in my garden. Those critters are especially sensitive to chemicals.

Greenhaven, clinging by her fingernails to her ground. (maybe literally?)

Sandy, that's good to hear about the ants. I also read that ants are predators for grubs.

Sherry

Sherryocala, I would absolutely love to have roses like yours that bring in those fuzzy adorable bumblebees (sob)! And you too are really blessed Iris. I haven't seen those wonderful God-given creatures for 22 years! Karl, if my Border Collie Eluane ever becomes a nationally competing agility dog and I get to visit my agility friend Tim Dyer in Chicago, I will! be sure to visit too! Sandy808 and greenhaven hurray if you can get tons of fat lizards and toads... All my immediate neighbors surrounding me use grubkillers and pesticides so I am like an island! so no bumblebees, no toads, a Big Fat Zero of frustration... .. and I was still tempted. Naturally all their ants scurry off to my garden, so I have bigtime ant infestation with their sidekicks the aphids. Luckily the aphids have not gotten out of control I just have to SQUISH a few... It's the thripes which are driving me a bit beserk in the backyard...

Again, some of my favorite considerations when I did more research it warned the wild onion and the butterfly bush was also invasive, so I am still on the lookout... Too bad the beautiful salvia is an annual, but I think I will still plant if I have extra time... So now it's the catmint and the butterfly mint for sure, and that serviceberry looks gorgeous! I think it will go well with the mountain laurel and the thin leafed-rhododendron I've currently got... Hmmm, but anything like the wild onion which can flower and not get crazy invasive? I have way too many trees... 5 in my small front yard and they cast too much shadow on my roses, but maybe I can hang bird feeders. But just like the organics balancing it may take years before I can attract anything besides blackbirds... Heck! we don't even have blue jays in my neighborhood either! I too haven't seen them for ages! and they use to be so plentiful way back when I was in Junior High...

I don't grow a lot with my roses beyond foxglove and day lillies. I do spray fungicide, but I haven't used insecticides for 2 years. In the back I have a complete no spray butterfly garden with butterfly bushes, black eye susans, summer phlox, bee balm and milkweed. I also have a lot of trees. Birds need trees to nest in. If you put up feeders that will also attract birds.

One plant that I really like is pyrocanthia. It has berries in the fall and flowers in the spring. It attracts birds and bees.

whoops, I accidentally deleted my sentence...I mean I was tempted to try to import ladybugs and lacewings, not tempted to do the grubkiller... but as Iris said, they will likely wander off to "visit" my neighbors and get killed within no time at all..(sigh)... wow, that pyrocanthia is quite gorgeous...will need thick gloves for that, but it is very colorful and striking... I am beginning to understand why people are coming up with a separate "butterfly garden"... It seems that the true butterfly and hummingbird attractors are more invasive...pretty as they are! in a foresty way, like the bee balm and honeysuckle vines...

I looked up your pyrocanthia and found this lovely pic..

Sere, I am proud of the path you are on...

When I moved here in 2007 I made a conscious decision to spray nothing.
No fungicide, no miticide, no insecticide flat out nothing.
As a result I have learned to live with a bit of BS on a few Roses, a bit of insect damage on leaves but I really feel I have less disease than when I sprayed regularly.
I also grow nearly anything you can think of and don't have a clue how the plants interact but my yard is alive with birds, ladybugs and bees doing their thing.
It's really nice to only have to worry about watering and fertilizing.
Call it "Zen and the Art of Rose Growing" but it works for me and I haven't bought any expensive spray for two years now.

This season I have decided to try the no spray garden.
Via research plants/herbs said to work with roses are garlic, chives, bee balm, lavender, catmint, parsley, alliums, oregano, day lilies, scented geraniums, alyssum, rue, thyme & sage...
I have honeysuckle bushes, they have not been invasive, normally covered with aphids, this Spring they have been covered with lady bugs, hundreds of them... so far not a single aphid has been seen.
My favorite new addition so far is catmint, Walker's Low... and boy has it brought in the bee's, they love it.
The ants seem to prefer the peonies over the roses.
Last season I planted Phlox, WOW did it come back, making a nice, low ground cover & I hope a weed controller too :o)
Now it's wait and watch to see if all the newest additions make a difference.
Crossing fingers,
Lioness

We have a lot of birds in our yard--there was a hawk that perched on the fence over some vole tracks last winter--haven't seen a sign of voles this Spring. I also saw the hawk carry a squirrel off across the road as I was taking a break from snow blowing the driveway. But, it also could have been the owls--we have them too. We used to have a problem with paper wasps--there was a huge nest undernearth a rhododenrum in our front yard. While I was waiting for the weather to get cold, something (a racoon?) attacked it one night, and cleaned it out the next day. We also have lots of bees, at least four different types I can think of--the native species are a lot more common European honeybees. We have lots of cardinals, chickadees, robins, woodpeckers, blackbirds, starlings, and mourning doves, but I don't think I've ever seen more than one blue jay or turkey in our yard at one time. We spray for exhibition--a regular fungicide program + BT for the caterpillers. We get some insect damage on the foliage, but not anywhere as bad as the ripped leaves from bad weather (the hailstorm really did a number a few weeks ago). We also use grub killer on the ground, which also controls rose midge at the same time.

Lionessrose, thanks so much for introducing me to the scented geraniums! I am so thrilled! I never knew I could get scented geraniums! the flowers are very pretty/delicate. I did followup research on what you wrote and am one happy camper/planter...And yes, I'll have to add thyme to my listing besides Kristen_flower's nepeta/your Walker's Low...

Maybe I can put Karl's bee balm nearer the trees... That way they don't get compete with the roses and the shade trees will keep them from being too prolific...Had most reviews say it was semi-invasive as he had described... The other option is to get a dwarf bee balm, which is less invasive...

Zalac, I hope I can really convince/beg you!!!!! not to use grub killer... It is bad, bad, bad news! You may have lots of birds, but I am concerned about the long term effects... How long have you lived at your place and how long have you used that grub killer... When I first moved to my new home, the lawn care people used grub killer against my express orders... I waited for 2 days of heavy rain... Well, after the rains, the following day I played just 5 minutes of frisbee with my Border Collie in the backyard... It made her sick with diarrhea and runny, mushy stools for an entire month! I was soooo mad! And note I did find 2 dead birds in my lawn as well that terrible year. What people don't realize is the accumulative effect that these poisons have... That's why many dogs die of cancer at a very early age...Poisons from grasses... they lick/clean their paws, pick up the ball/frisbee from the grass, etc. etc. Birds like to eat grubs and insects. Grub killers are used in my neighborhood by almost everyone! and just look at the pathetic varieties of birds that remain...It's just a matter of time before pesticides start taking their toll... And note pesticide companies only test out their products for a year...it takes a few years for cancer and infertility to develop with birds and other living creatures...

There are salvias that are perennials but they are called meadow sage. I have three white hill, may night and rose queen which for some strange hasn't bloomed yet. I have 5 or 6 different lavenders in my rose bed. I'm also trying nasturtium this to see if it will help with the cucumber beetles that seem to enjoy my roses so much. I also have honeysuckle vine growing in two different places which I keep pruned so they can't go anywhere else. The robins like to build nest in them. I have bumblebees and bees that visit my garden all day. I do have quite a bit more birds this year but I think its due to my neighbor putting up some strange bird house.

Two years ago I had a horrible infestation of bagworms. I spent most of my summer picking them off most of my plants in my garden. I found a natural chemical solution that did a wonderful job of keep them at bay. I found only two last year and so far none this season. I found out that where coming from neighbor juniper tree which I also sprayed. This year that tree looks more healthy then I have seen it in years.

Anyway, my big problems with my roses are BS and thrips. I have tried importing ladybugs and lacewings but they take what want and then leave. I have found two juvenile ladybugs and put them on my roses. I do use use a fungicide otherwise the BS will get bad. I'm waiting for the praying mantis to show up, to take care of the thrips since they don't seem to like the cucumber beetles.

Many years ago when I used to have mostly HT's I thought it was necessary to spray to have pretty blooms--

Then it dawned on me---the first thing we do when we see a pretty rose is out our nose in it to see how it smells. Then and there I decided NO MORE SPRAYS----My garden is "survival of the fittest"----Now my garden is a jungle and I love it that way----No pristine garden for me----
This is much easier for me to maintain---
We have an abundance of birds ---many feeders---several birdhouse--birdbaths etc---A friendly bumble bee joined me on my sideporch the other day. I have ladybugs on the rose leaves and the little birds eat the insects. Last year we had hummingbirds on our zinnias--that surprised me---they usually lie the trumpet shaped plants.
Nature is wonderful
Florence

Mori, Karl gave me the name of a really effective organic fungicide... Greencure which I use... No BS...ever! to be seen on my roses... If yours already have BS you could try Serenade, which is also organic. There are lots of organic fungicides and other organic solutions to help protect one's plants...I usually go to the organics forum for that, but for this post, I am hoping others who are straddling the fence with organics can be encouraged to try these alternatives... Thrips I notice like a particular scent of rose... They will attack very sweet/fruity smelling roses (like my Aromatherapy and Gemini) but oddly enough will leave my fragrant Lincoln blossoms alone. So I spray hot pepper spray wax, which will lessen the attacks somewhat...(reduces them by 1/3)... I'm not happy because the pepper spray will scare off the bees, but once my young roses get prolific I will ease out on the pepper spray, because then, there will be plenty of roses to "share"... and I won't go crazy if I see the constant brown edging from thrips...

P.S. thanks for the meadow sage descriptor, hurray! it looks like the beautiful "salvia" but the advantage is that it is a perennial! Another one to add to my garden... And nasturtium! thanks sooo much for that! something to scare away the aphids, cute flowers and yet yummy/edible to humans? (looked that one up too). how good of a combo is that!!! can't get any better!