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Help me ID this old rose, please.

9 years ago

This rose was old when we moved here in 1975. It was in better shape then; I found it did better if I left it alone other than providing water and occasional fertilizer. This past winter was particularly hard on it, and some of its already sparse canes were lost. But what's left is blooming beautifully, mostly on a cane about 5 ft. tall. The scent is wonderful.

I tried to photograph everything you might need for the ID. Thank you!

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Comments (8)

belmont8
9 years ago
This looks like Summer or Autumn Damask to me.
belmont8
9 years ago
Alternately, it might be something that is often found in my area (NE Pennsylvania) which has the study name of 'Pocono Red Damask.' I don't think there is much info available about it under that name online or in print. 'Pocono Red Damask' may be the same as what Vintage sold as "Laura," which they classified as a Centifolia.

If you look at the photos of "Laura" on HMF it may be confusing because I am not sure they are all of the same rose.

Here is a link that might be useful: Vintage's
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My mother-in-law also grows this rose (we dug it up from the same old house place) and hers is fuller and more fragrant. She has better soil than I do. I don't have a great sense of smell, other people think it is more fragrant than I do. The number of leaves, bud pictures, suckering,and once flowering habit, are closer than any other rose I've found yet. The pictures at Help Me Find are almost identical to mine.
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Your rose looks similar to a rose in the Sacramento Cemetery, our found rose, "Dr Peck's 12th Avenue Smoothie" is thornless, once blooming. Very fragrant. This found rose is thought to be the same as the Charles Lawson in commerce. Below is a link to a photo I took in the cemetery a few years ago. I liked this rose so much that I propagated it and planted it in my yard even though it is a once bloomer. It is quite vigorous and now takes up the back corner along the fence. Here is a link that might be useful: Dr Peck's 12th Ave Smoothie/Charles Lawson
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Definitely NOT Therese Bugnet. Leaves and cane color are not right, and Therese's bloom form is different. I would also vote against much rugosa influence...leaves are not right for rugosa. Looks similar to R. gallica officinalis, except bloom form is not quite the same. But you say this is an immature sucker so perhaps we're not seeing a representative bloom. Gallicas are known for suckering and traveling around quite a bit. Unfortunately, there is a possibility it could be a sucker off an open pollenated seedling of a gallica or damask. I've seen OP gallica seedlings at cnetter's place here in Denver, and they can be all over the place in terms of bloom form and plant structure. You mention "rambler" - is it throwing out long, supple canes, or just suckering underground? A true rambler would be throwing out long, supple canes. Gallicas (and other roses) move around by sending out underground suckers. Do you have a photo of an unopened bud? Nancy
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Comments (3)
Thank you, The first rose is mildly fragrant, thornless, velvety and almost black-red before before it's fully open. This bush is two years old and about four ft, high. Acts more like a long stemmed rose: The climber is four yrs old, no particular fragrance, very thorny, and blooms just once, as far as I can recall. I wasn't able to dead head it these past years...I don't know if doing so would encourage new blooms. With the canes bent it reaches above the first story window. jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"> I hope these photos are helpful. I know nothing about roses, perhaps ignorance is bliss because they've been spectacular. Thanks for your help. J
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alisande
Original Author
9 years ago
Thanks, Belmont--I'm in NEPA too. I looked up Autumn and Summer Damask, and while the fully-open blooms resembled mine, none of the photos on HMF showed the form visible in my third photo.

I've wondered if I have a Centifolia, but the Centifolia pics I've seen show cupping, especially when the blooms aren't fully opened. I just went out and took another look. Nope, no cups. Lots of petals, though.
belmont8
9 years ago
Well, if you are in the area I am pretty sure it's the same 'Pocono Red Damask. I don't think Summer/Autumn Damask are commonly found here.

I am no expert but the friend who gave it the study name did not feel it was a Centifolia.

Wow, where in NEPA are you? I am in Northern Wayne County. If you are interested in sharing plants I am up for it.
alisande
Original Author
9 years ago
I'm in Southern Wayne Co. It's a tall county! I do love it--it's all beautiful.

Sadly, my gardening days are winding down, so I'm not seeking new plants. Between an invasion of Germander Speedwell, advancing age (mine) and a chronic condition leftover from one of my (many) tick bites, the weeds have been winning and I don't have the energy for the battle anymore. I gave away quite a few plants last year, and if/when I do it again, I'll be glad to let you know. Do you ever come to Honesdale? It's so centrally located. ;-)
belmont8
9 years ago
Yes, I brave the traffic in Honesdale a few times a month. If you are ever sharing plants again I might be interested.

So you have Germander Speedwell way down there too? I decided to stop fighting it and think it makes a nice groundcover. I may change my mind about that eventually. I used to think the same thing about strawberry...
User
9 years ago
It reminds me of Bella Donna
alisande
Original Author
9 years ago
I agree, Germander Speedwell is pretty. In fact, at first I thought I might have planted it at some point, not realizing how invasive it is. But the Extension Office told me it's all over the county.

I don't mind it in the lawn (it's green!), but it swallowed up my rock garden and took over all the flower beds. The roses don't seem to be affected, but it's taken quite a toll on the irises. I moved some to what I thought was a safe place, but it turns out no place is safe from this groundcover.

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